Comments/opinions on this system upgrade

[Goi]

Hi guys...
I'm helping my dad upgrade his budget system. He doesn't exactly have a budget in mind, but I'm keeping it as cheap as I can, but not scrimping on parts.

Before I proceed, I gotta say that I'm not in USA, but in Singapore, so while prices are more or less similar when you do the conversion, we don't get the luxury of mail order or pricewatch.com etc...

Here's his present system

Celeron 433MHz
Brandless(Matsonic) motherboard with god knows what chipset.
Matrox G400 SH 16MB SDRAM
Onboard Cmedia sound
Asus 44X CD-ROM
Yamaha 4416 SCSI CD-RW
Advansys SCSI card
Cheap minitower case with cheap PSU
Windows 98SE

I'm thinking of upgrading to the following.
AMD Duron 1.2GHz
ECS K7VTA3 rev 3.x w/KT333 chipset & onboard sound.
Abit Siluro GeForce4 MX440
Better, larger midtower case with 350W PSU
Windows 2000Pro

Altogether, without the case/PSU, this upgrade would cost me SG$693 presently, which is around US$382

A couple of things I've noticed...and a explanations on my decisions...

AMD Duron 1.2GHz is the top of the line Duron over here based on the Morgan core. The Athlon XP 1500+ is actually slightly cheaper, but the new Palomino die also means its harder to unlock, whereas AFAIK the Morgan can still be unlocked by the simple pencil trick.

ECS K7VTA3 rev 3.x is brand new, based on the KT333 instead of the KT266A like the rev 2.x. Its actually dirt cheap over here, even cheaper than MSI SiS745 Ultra or the ECS K7S6A that I was considering. However, overclocking options are not yet known(the ECS website doesn't provide any info on available FSB speeds of multiplier options). The previous rev 2.x did not have much options though.

I wanted to get the GF3 Ti200, but its quite a bit more expensive than the MX440, and he won't really be doing any 3D gaming, the only time the will be doing any 3D stuff is probably when I have my friends over for a LAN party, and even then, all it needs to do is play Quake3, RtCW and Jedi Knight decently, which I think the MX440 should be capable of doing.

A couple of questions...
I'm not very sure of the overclockability of the new Morgan Durons. Realistically, what max speed am I looking at? Could I save some money and go with a 1GHz or 1.1GHz and hope to overclock it to similar levels as the 1.2GHz version?

Does anyone know of the features, especially pertaining to FSB and multiplier choices, of the new ECS K7VTA3 rev 3.x? Reviews would be good...I can't seem to find any on the web...only found reviews of the rev 2.x

Any other general opinions/comments/observations?

Thanks!

 

[acejj26]

unless you're planning to unlock the duron and run it at a 166 MHz FSB (which might not be possible with that ECS board), there is no way I can recommend you buying a more expensive, lower clocked duron over the Athlon XP 1500+. get the Athlon 1500+ and then see what you can do with that with adjusting the FSB. but if you said he wasn't gonna do any big gaming, overclocking might be moot...therefore, you should get the Athlon processor

everything else looks okay, but maybe Windows XP instead of Win 2k??

also, make sure that the 350W power supply isn't a cheapie...i'd definitely recommend getting an AMD recommended power supply

 

[Goi]

Hmmn, actually I made a mistake, the Athlon XP 1500+ is cheaper than the Duron 1.3Ghz, but just a few dollars more expensive than the Duron 1.2GHz. I guess that few dollars is worth the upgrade from a 1.2GHz Duron to a 1333MHz Athlon XP huh? I guess that even with overclocking, it would not outperform the Athlon XP...geez, why didn't I see that. I guess I was just too embroiled with the Duron being a budget CPU and never did give the Athlon XP much consideration...

Thanks for the heads up though!

As for the OS, I think I'll stick with 2000 since I think its more stable. Why would you suggest the XP though, besides ease of use and the fancy schmancy interface?

Don't worry about the PSU, I'll get a good one, even though choices are limited over here...

 

[Goi]

Oops, I forgot to mention that he has previously already bought a new Seagate Barraccuda IV 40GB ATA100 HDD, so there's no need for HDD recommendations...

Also, does anyone have experiences with the Diamond MX300 soundcard and Windows 2000/XP? I have a spare MX300 lying around since I upgraded it to a Santa Cruz a couple months back, so I'm thinking it'll definitely be better than the onboard AC97 crap that comes with most motherboards. However, there are only beta, unsupported Win2K drivers, which I haven't tried before...

 

[Athlon4all]

<< AMD Duron 1.2GHz is the top of the line Duron over here based on the Morgan core. The Athlon XP 1500+ is actually slightly cheaper, but the new Palomino die also means its harder to unlock, whereas AFAIK the Morgan can still be unlocked by the simple pencil trick. >>

Like someone said, don't think about ocing with any ECS board. I'd definately get an XP 1500+ if you intend to get the ECS board. If you'd like a better suggestion for an ocing board, just ask. And in any case, I'd still get a XP. The Duron is still manufactured with Aluminum interconnects, and the best it'll oc to is prolly 1.35GHz or so, while the XP 1500+ ought to hit at least 1.53. maybe even 1.6-1.7GHz.

<< ECS K7VTA3 rev 3.x is brand new, based on the KT333 instead of the KT266A like the rev 2.x. Its actually dirt cheap over here, even cheaper than MSI SiS745 Ultra or the ECS K7S6A that I was considering. However, overclocking options are not yet known(the ECS website doesn't provide any info on available FSB speeds of multiplier options). The previous rev 2.x did not have much options though. >>

Again, there's nothing wrong with ECS boards, but even if they do have ocing options, don't expect to do much. The Overclocking "options" on K7S6A worked very poorly. If you are so intended on ocing get a different mobo.

<< I wanted to get the GF3 Ti200, but its quite a bit more expensive than the MX440, and he won't really be doing any 3D gaming, the only time the will be doing any 3D stuff is probably when I have my friends over for a LAN party, and even then, all it needs to do is play Quake3, RtCW and Jedi Knight decently, which I think the MX440 should be capable of doing. >>

That's fine. The GF4MX 440 contrary to common belief, is the fastest card for $80 in the States, and it is at its best in Q3A and RTCW because they are based on the old Quake 3 Engine, and isn't hurt by having only 2 Pixel Pipelines (see here, RTCW, Q3A are both benchmarked on the GF4 MX440 against the competition).

<< I'm not very sure of the overclockability of the new Morgan Durons. Realistically, what max speed am I looking at? Could I save some money and go with a 1GHz or 1.1GHz and hope to overclock it to similar levels as the 1.2GHz version?

Does anyone know of the features, especially pertaining to FSB and multiplier choices, of the new ECS K7VTA3 rev 3.x? Reviews would be good...I can't seem to find any on the web...only found reviews of the rev 2.x >>

See above.

I will also say that especially if you're getting an ECS, a high quality PS is a much. I'd recommend Antec, Enlight, Enermax, or another AMD approved PSU. Also, I would suggest getting Win XP rather than 2000. If you don't like the GUI, you can disable it. I love it!!! It's just as stable as 2000 was previously and it boots faster, and I have had better app compatability, so it does nothing but build on 2000 and you can get XP Home without worries. But its your choice. Good luck!! If u have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

P.S. What RAM are you buying? Make sure you get 256MB at least, prefferably 512MB for 2000/XP.

 

[Goi]

Doh...I just keep forgetting things huh? Must be getting old...

Anyway, I'll be getting 512MB of Kingston PC2100 DDR-SDRAM, so I should be pretty well covered in the memory department.

As for ECS, they're not really that bad, I have another Athlon Thunderbird 1.4GHz system running on the ECS K7S5A. Granted, the overclocking options aren't there(only got it to 1.45GHz) but I didn't meet with any compatibility or stability problems. That system is running 24/7 on Win2K...

Funny you should mention Enlight, coz that's the case/PSU(7237) for the above-mentioned system...and I'll probably stick with a similar brand.

Just to clarify, budget constraints are a bigger factor here than overclocking options, and the system has to be stable and reliable. Overclocking is more of a bonus, an afterthought, so I won't be too buggered about not having the most comprehensive overclocking options...I think in the price/performance department the ECS can't be beat presently...

 

[Goi]

Anyone care to respond to my question 2 posts ago regarding the Diamond MX300 soundcard and Win2K/XP compatibility? Thanks

 

[Goi]

Another question...
I just found out that my dad actually bid, won and received a 3DLabs Oxygen video card. The model is unknown, but I suspect its an entry level VX1 model. He's an engineer and uses AutoCAD quite a bit, but its just 2D, nothing 3D...so would the Oxygen card actually be better than the GF4 MM440? I suspect not since its a fairly old card(at least 3 years old), has less RAM, less bandwidth and a slower RAMDAC. Any thoughts on whether which of the 3 would be the best for 2D AutoCAD? Matrox G400 SH 16MB, 3DLabs Oxygen or Nvidia GF4 MX440?

 

[IndyJaws]

<< Anyone care to respond to my question 2 posts ago regarding the Diamond MX300 soundcard and Win2K/XP compatibility? Thanks >>



I just upgraded a system that had an MX300 and was triple (!) booting 98SE, 2K and XP.

How to put it nicely.....

I can't. Support for 2K and XP SUCKED. I'd take a SB Live over that piece of crap. It was great in the day when Aureal still provided drivers and Diamond was in the business, but I highly recommend you stay away from it in a 2K or XP rig.

 

[Goi]

Thanks for the reply. I guess perhaps I'll just stick with the onboard sound then...but I'll try the MX300 with the beta drivers just for the heck of it...who knows? I might get it working

 

[Goi]

Just a follow up. The system is up, and my dad decided to go for a bit more power as the price difference was only $10+ between the few processors. So here's the final system
Retail boxed Athlon XP 1800+ with AMD HSF
ECS K7VTA rev3.1 motherboard
512MB PC2100 CL2.5 Kingston DDR-SDRAM with Winbond chips
Abit Siluro GF4 MX440 64MB DDR-SDRAM video card
Diamond MX300(works like a charm, Win2K detected/installed it automatically without asking anything)
For more details, click on the rack.

Decided to keep the old system(or what's left of it) as a backup, so the G400's inside there.

*EDIT* Just wanted to say a bit more on the ECS K7VTA rev 3.1 in case some people are wondering. While I'm not sure of the previous rev 1.x and 2.x, the rev 3.1 does have some pretty basic overclocking options, including support for voltage and FSB, and IIRC even memory speed adjustments. The FSB speeds that I've tried so far are the default 133MHz and the next step up - 140MHz. There's also a 145MHz option, and IIRC it goes up in 5MHz steps. I'm not at home right now so I'm not 100% sure, but I'll check it out if anyone's interested...