Coming back to multiplayer FPS, frustrations.

[ixelion]

It's been a few years since I've seriously sunk time into any FPS. The last game I was really good at and enjoyed was R6, since then I have played CoD4, BC2, BF3, Titanfall and various F2P games on steam. My biggest problems seem to be:

a) Because of progressive unlocks, being limited in weapon and gear choices takes away flexibility and ability to adapt to different maps and matches.

b) Having to play against organized clan members as a solo player is painful, I don't particularly want to join a clan, nor do I have time for it, my only option is to play off-peak times which is not possible.

c) Map designs that don't promote interesting player confrontation, the number of times I have killed people by shooting them in the back after just spawning is ludicrous, I very rarely have a 1v1 situation that wasn't pointless randomness that lasted a fraction of a second.

So I'm at a loss, I'm sure it's a combination of me being rusty and games changing dramatically since early 2000s, the thing is this isn't my first time being rusty, but I've always managed to get back into the groove, but I can't seem to do that with the games available today.

 

[Patre]

Well, your only viable option is to play TF2 right here: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2381781

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[BrightCandle]

I agree on all points, I hate all these aspects of modern FPS games. I would also add the ridiculous recoil models that don't even remotely represent reality of firing a weapon, along with movement and shooting that makes no sense, the ridiculous points systems that go along with progress etc etc. All of this is considered "modern", it kind of converts a basic FPS into an MMO and a lot of people like it, but personally I find it just unbalances the game against new players.

If iron sights were so awesome in BF4 you would find lots of people using them, but in reality the only people using them are those levelling addons to their gun. Thus its a limiting option there specifically to make it harder for new players.

 

[BSim500]

So I'm at a loss, I'm sure it's a combination of me being rusty and games changing dramatically since early 2000s, the thing is this isn't my first time being rusty, but I've always managed to get back into the groove, but I can't seem to do that with the games available today.

I feel for you. I still prefer "old school" feel FPS games too for the same reason - no matter how much more "smarter" and "more polished" modern fps get, they're either 1. Not as fun (slower paced, carry fewer weapons, maps designed by Hollywood not gamers), or 2. Still not realistic (inaccurate recoil / bullet drop, laggy input controls from a bad port, "head bob" that makes you run like a giraffe wearing a surgical collar, replacing "unrealistic" finite-health stimpacks with even more unrealistic auto-regen infinite-health, overly-nerfed "over-powered" vehicles (tanks / helo's, etc, in Battlefield style games)), etc.

For a long while I thought it was just me too. A lot of it though, is the difference in slower pacing. Older games were faster - no question about that. Newer ones are shoot, take cover, wait for infinite health to regenerate, etc. It's often the pacing that makes that "something's out of place" feel vs earlier games you grew up with. I also find the "obsessively turn every modern game into a hybrid FPS/RPG with XP points, skill trees and achievements" thing tedious too. Great for Deus Ex & Bioshock, but not in every... single... FPS... It's almost like games are written for children whose every minor achievement needs applauding & given a separate medal by their over-bearing mothers...

A lot of it is also the change in sub-genres over the years. What used to be 3 separate ones (1. Arcade / Arena (Doom, Quake, Serious Sam, etc), vs 2. "Hardcore simulation" (eg, Operation Flashpoint (pre dumbing down into ARMA), ie, no onscreen map, no friendlies, enemies or waypoints / objectives marked on any map, no tracers, no weapon crosshair, even no HUD at all, etc), vs 3. that "hybrid thing" in the middle (Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc), has increasingly being squeezed into primarily just the third with little variety.

 

[toughtrasher]

I used to have the solo vs clans thing annoying me all the time in BF3. I was just starting the BF series and clans would jump me from all over.

Then I just got into the attitude of playing the game to play, not to compete.

 

[DigDog]

quake is still F2P
quakelive.com

OP is whining because he doesn't have the hours to sink into a decent shooter. all these evil "modern day unlock-based shooters" assume that you would have the patience to reach level cap. which honestly doesn't take that long and anyway, during that first month of play you'd get trashed anyway because other plaers have more experience.

but dude, be my guest and go into any arena shooter where no such nonsense exists; as a matter of fact, i'm sure you can go into quake and immediately start pwng noobs.

never mind that people there have 20 years of experience, accuracy 3x yours, half your reaction time.

shooter games are hard. they take time. if having to grind for a month is too much for you you'd better look elsewhere.

 

[ixelion]

I used to have the solo vs clans thing annoying me all the time in BF3. I was just starting the BF series and clans would jump me from all over.

Then I just got into the attitude of playing the game to play, not to compete.

This is the issue I had with Titanfall, getting matched with gen9 clans, usually during peak hour, was often unavoidable, so server browser may be essential, and some strategy on how to select a server can go a long way.

Overall though playing against organized clans wouldn't be too bad if maps were designed to promote direct confrontation instead of rotating around the map and shooting people in the back. You can actually adapt as a solo player vs organized groups, if the game allows you to in this way.

 

[toughtrasher]

quake is still F2P
quakelive.com

OP is whining because he doesn't have the hours to sink into a decent shooter. all these evil "modern day unlock-based shooters" assume that you would have the patience to reach level cap. which honestly doesn't take that long and anyway, during that first month of play you'd get trashed anyway because other plaers have more experience.

but dude, be my guest and go into any arena shooter where no such nonsense exists; as a matter of fact, i'm sure you can go into quake and immediately start pwng noobs.

never mind that people there have 20 years of experience, accuracy 3x yours, half your reaction time.

shooter games are hard. they take time. if having to grind for a month is too much for you you'd better look elsewhere.

If you have to grind period, you'd better look elsewhere. Hate grinding just to get better, but I do like taking my time and learning the ropes to get better. There's a large difference

 

[DigDog]

explain the difference between learning the ropes and grinding.

 

[Northern Lawn]

I experience very little of the op's problems in Bad Company 2. I'm not in a clan and I like to start over with a fresh account and build it up again. Most of the maps are great.

 

[SlitheryDee]

I just started playing Titanfall about a week ago and I'm having a blast. I have to be at least as rusty as you. Even worse, I have no serious prior multiplayer FPS experience like you do besides a brief stint in Team Fortress 2 way back when it first came out. I don't get the problems you have with the progressive unlock system, at least in TF. Every weapon seems to be viable for most any situation from what I can tell. I see being limited as a challenge to get good enough to perform with the weapons I have available and I also think it adds to my interest in the game. Give me all the weapons at once and I'll just try them all a few times and get bored. Make me work for each one and I'll be more excited to get it and I'll likely spend more time with it.

The whole playing against organized clan members thing just seems like something you should already know will happen. It doesn't happen much in titanfall, but I do run into teams full of gen8 or gen9 players pretty regularly. Once again, I see it as a challenge. Lose and it's no surprise there, but win and you get MASSIVE satisfaction. I can't speak on map design, but I haven't had any problems like you're speaking of. I have yet to kill anyone immediately after spawning and I haven't noticed it happening to me either. I have had a few memorable confrontations though.

I'm not saying that I'm very good at Titanfall though. I do pretty well overall, but I get my ass handed to me plenty. It may be that I just don't mind losing as much as you do.

 

[ixelion]

I experience very little of the op's problems in Bad Company 2. I'm not in a clan and I like to start over with a fresh account and build it up again. Most of the maps are great.

I had fun with BC2 a few years ago, unfortunately the number of available server is dwindling, and many conquest games are usually a steamroll, Rush is ok though.

Titanfall did unlocks very well, I had no issue with that, my problem was that in some ways it was worse than CoD when it came to randomness and "skill compression", again this was a game that did not promote purposeful confrontation, as a result it felt very shallow and random after a while.

The game is fun, but that's not enough. Player actions need to be meaningful in context, shooting people in the ass over and over again does not stay fun for long.

Part of the problem is that many people prefer TDM modes over objective-based modes. I liked S&D in CoD but it no where near popular as TDM, and in Titanfall I couldn't even find any games.

 

[Udgnim]

explain the difference between learning the ropes and grinding.

my interpretation

learning the ropes = playing to get better

grinding = playing to unlock stuff

 

[Genx87]

I started losing interest in FPS's when they started adding in random spawn points. It totally destroyed the sense of map importance and orientation. The games devolved into rolling movements around the maps. Also random spawn points added in the annoying spawn behind somebody from the other team and blast them without a clue I was there and vice versa.

 

[BSim500]

explain the difference between learning the ropes and grinding.

One is a genuine learning process, the other is glorified "number chasing".

 

[Northern Lawn]

Did anyone try out ArmaIII? it was free last weekend. I loaded it up but was unable to get on any servers, i didn't try real hard but the two day deal went fast and i didn't play it at all.

 

[Northern Lawn]

I started losing interest in FPS's when they started adding in random spawn points. It totally destroyed the sense of map importance and orientation. The games devolved into rolling movements around the maps. Also random spawn points added in the annoying spawn behind somebody from the other team and blast them without a clue I was there and vice versa.

I played 3000 hours of americas army 2 before i ever played another fps. In that game you there was no respawning, you had to wait till the beginning of the next match. So when I started playing other games I thought all respawning was stupid, i think my first experience was on modern warfare but bad company 2 turned that around for me. Especially spawning off team mates behind enemy lines. When you see 3 people parachute near your mcom and they turn into 7 people it becomes awesome lol. Love that game.

 

[moonbogg]

I am pretty picky and easily get bored with games, but with BF4 I found a very specific niche that I am totally hooked on right now. Team death match, hard core, snipers only. Spawn deaths happen, but its a small price to pay for a truly fun game mode for me.
I am sick of regular game mode. All the constant explosions shaking the damn screen really screw up my shooting, getting killed by cheesy choppers, AC130, noob suicide dorks on quads etc etc. Tired of it. Its not fun like it used to be, its just a distraction and annoyance. I'm loving the TDM snipers only. Its simple and challenging and the playing field is nice and even and predictable. You know how you will die and by what. It can only come from another player with a similar weapon.
It reminds me of the good old insta gib mode for UT99. Simple, skill focused, unforgiving but lovely.

 

[DigDog]

One is a genuine learning process, the other is glorified "number chasing".

there is no number chasing, its not MMORPGs. you play, you learn, you get the better - and harder to use - gear.

if you want the *unusual* stuff, you grind (or rather, you do the challenges, with a smile on your face, if you have skill, with a river of tears if you haven't).

but, like i said, you can go into *any* arena shooter and get humiliated, pls don't let me hold you back.
then in 10 years or so when you got good, you can start playing at an even level, which in CoD/BF/whatever would have taken you a month.

here let me flowchart it for you:

1) are you whining?
NO = ok, good. carry on.
YES = go to 2
2) can your problem be fixed by playing more and getting better?
NO = stop playing this game
YES = stop whining

 

[BSim500]

then in 10 years or so when you got good, you can start playing at an even level,

Hyperbole much?....

 

[greenhawk]

My biggest problems seem to be:

a) Because of progressive unlocks, being limited in weapon and gear choices takes away flexibility and ability to adapt to different maps and matches.

b) Having to play against organized clan members as a solo player is painful,

c) Map designs that don't promote interesting player confrontation,

a) depends on the game. Games that are developed to force people to grind to get upgrades, or worse, force you to buy them, are not games worth playing if you just want to play a even game. (looking at you BF).

Though some games make it so that even if there are hundreds of weapons, once you find one that matches your play style, it does not matter the map as you make the weapon work (ie: TF2).

b) it can be. Personally the issue is that friends are playing together and they are communicating. The communicating will generally do better than a bunch of randoms who do not talk. All games have it, not much you can do about it as friends want to play with friends. I did not mind BF's squads but it was nearly better to stop playing the game when playing with more friends than what would fit into a squad.

c) going to be an issue in any game where you can re-spawn and join the current game. More so in death match or in games that allow camping. But you mentioned a dislike for grinding for weapons, but all it is is people wanting the best weapon which is more likly a one hit/ one kill sort of thing, which turns even a 1v1 face on game into who twitches first, so any game with a weapon "progression" is going to have this issue.



Though if those are your main gripes, then a game like counter strike (or one of it's newer versions ) might be what is wanted, if you are a person that can handle being killed and not playing until the next round. It can tick me off at times with some games doing this, same as games that have long count down timers to "punish" you for dieing (from a spawn camper = crap game).

 

[DigDog]

Hyperbole much?....

www.quakelive.com
try it. then you tell me.

i have 100.000 frags and i'm a borderline T4 player, SR97. some people have been playing the same game since quake 1, and in FPS since doom 1.

Interesting fact about quake players (and possibly others too): few pro (read:who win money playing) players actually use mouse1 to shoot - the clenching of the hand muscles when pressing the button tends to make your hand more rigid and less capable of tracking;
most use SPACE to shoot.
mouse1 is for zoom, mouse2 for jump. *that* is how hardcore these people are.

Ok maybe you are right; make that 5 years, if you try really hard.

@greenhawk.
lol. you have a OP who cringes at the thought of having to do missions to unlock items, and you want him to play the game with the highest skill cap on the web?

missions and/or other forms of grinding are not bad perse; there's people who actually like being told "please do 20 headshots with iron sights", they like being presented with a challenge. I myself like to, when faced with lobbies of not-so-good players, set myself challenges, such as only kill by headshot, or only use dropped weapons from killed players. Because i got enough mouse control skills and game experience to enjoy these challenges.

If the OP thinks "kill 50 people with a high recoil gun" or "use the knife 100 times" is bad, maybe he should look into different games.

Most of all, when he whines "i want the special gun, but i dont want to prove to the devs that i can use it", all this considering how minor these challenges really are. Kill 20 guys with a smg, really?

Srsly if that is what butthurts you, DO NOT play CS, UT, QL, or any game which has skill, you'll cry and ruin your keyboard.

Find me in Blacklight:Retribution EU servers, IGN: A51Sky my best KDR: 43-2
Find me in QuakeLive Maidenhead servers, IGN: iSuckz my LG: 28%

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Unreal Tournament 2014, that is the next FPS I will probably play. I've grown tired of CoD/BF shooters and they never really had the kind of awe inspiring fun a good round of Onslaught in UT 2k4 could give.

One thing you should know, OP. Playing FPS is much tougher on PC than consoles. There are just more consistently good players which creates a generally higher skill level. Thus, if you are coming over from consoles as a frame of reference you are generally going to struggle in a major way for months, maybe even a couple of years, before you find your stroke.

 

[jimrawr]

Try Loadout.. very fun FPS game thats DM style. Its also free. You can unlock stuff but you have access to the important stuff right away

 

[WhipperSnapper]

If you wait about 9 months, there will be a new, free (free, not free-to-play with microtransactions) Unreal Tournament game, which is an arena-shooter.