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<< However, you will not solve those problems by taking away freedoms. >>
Nor will you solve them by handing out priviledges as if they were rights... which is what you seem to want to do.
You know AmusedOne, I don't doubt your sincerity in this debate. From a purely human standpoint, all reference to God removed, I would even be in your camp! I can and do understand your position. I'm not at all sure though that you can say the same of me. For you to understand what and why I feel the way I do, you have to start with the premise that the Bible is the inspired (greek "breathed into") Word of God. That God exists in the person of the Trinity. That anything that God says comes before and ahead of anything contradictory to God. That His standards are the standards by which things should be measured in life... including self-examination which is an area I'm sure I fall short in.
If you can put yourself in that mental frame of reference, you can understand why all of the "scientific" information won't sway me any more than the Biblical account of creation will sway your thinking. You seem to think that people who think the way I do are full of hate and fear... but those (like Red Dawn) who know me would be quick to tell you that hate and fear is NOT what I am all about. Red and I have agreed and disagreed on things over the years, but he, Russ... heck, even Harvey will tell you that I am not a person centered in hate or fear, but that I have a strict belief in a moral code as perscribed by the Bible. While you certainly don't have to agree with my beliefs, it might help you to understand that they are the basis for for why I believe what I believe. I also believe that we {The USA} are not a nation of men, but of laws. You have been discussing "personal rights" and what's fair in your mind, while I have been simply stating what I believe to be true. You have been saying what is fair (which looks to the person) while I have been saying what I believe to be true (which looks only at the issue).
As for myself and homosexuals... I work with several. I've known many. You know the most hatred I've ever seen directed at someone who was "homosexual"? A few years back, I was helping a man in his 50's come out of that lifestyle. He had been terribly abused as a boy... physically and emotionally by his step father... his brothers and sisters belonged to this man, while he was by his mother's first husband. His step father would often tell him what a lovely human he was and how he'd better never find him touching any girls. Meanwhile, teenage boys in the neighborhood had started to molest him and he couldn't tell anyone because it would only validate what his step father had said. So.. he lived a life having sex with other men... meeting them in rest rooms at parks and rest areas for frequent sex, even though he also lived in a couple of "long term" relationships too. When he came to grips with his past and realized that he was the way he was not because of some genetic predisposition, but because of abuse, he decided that he wanted to be shut of that lifestyle.
Now came the hatred towards him..... from other homosexuals! He was berated and maligned. He was screamed at and cursed at! .....Who did he think he was? ....He was lying to himself!.... He'd been brainwashed to thinking that homosexuality was wrong! ....and a lot of other things I cannot post on AT..... but you see, if he could overcome his homosexuality, then it meant that it was possible, and I think that a lot of those people didn't want to have to face the guilt of knowing that they COULD change, that they didn't HAVE to be homosexual... HE was a threat to them.
It's about 5 years now and he's not homosexual anymore.
Joe >>
Fine with me. If your religion says homosexuality is bad, I'm OK with that. That's your belief. You have every freedom in the world to believe it. However, your religious based belief has no place in law, and it has no place denying others freedoms or opportunities, or dictating how they may live or act.
What if I had a religion that said all Christians were evil, and had no place raising children? Then advocated a law removing children from Christian homes and denying Christian couples the opportunity to adopt children? I have no proof that Christian couples are a danger to children, but darn it, my god tells me they are sinners, must be avoided at all cost and their children taken away.
Do you see? My belief would not be a valid reason to rob you of your freedom and opportunities, just as your religious belief is not a valid reason to do the same with homosexuals.