Comcast Starts Online Video ‘Toll Booth,’ Netflix Supplier Says

[Homerboy]

Spidey et al., I don't recall the specifics, but didn't Sprint, about 2 years ago litereally pull the plug on another backbone (I forget their name... cheapo bastards that imagined themselves as Tier1) due to imbalanced peering? And forced that cheap carrier to start paying for peer routes? All their downstream were basically blind to anything behind Sprint then....

Edit: Was it Cogent maybe?

 

[Homerboy]

If its uneven peering then why doesn't comcast just throttle their connection like they do on the other end when they detect 'bad bandwidth use'?

Because then their end user's would receive bad service!

 

[spidey07]

Spidey et al., I don't recall the specifics, but didn't Sprint, about 2 years ago litereally pull the plug on another backbone (I forget their name... cheapo bastards that imagined themselves as Tier1) due to imbalanced peering? And forced that cheap carrier to start paying for peer routes? All their downstream were basically blind to anything behind Sprint then....

I don't remember the players but that sounds familiar and it's happened more than once.

-edit to your edit-
Cogent sounds familiar.

 

[SunnyD]

Huh?

Comcast isn't trying to charge Netflix so why do you bring up content providers.

It is the VOLUME of data not the TYPE of data that Comcast wants to charge for.

If you use more electricity do you not get charged more?

Hey, dipshit... here's a hint, since you said it yourself.

Level3 isn't trying to push additional bandwidth to Comcrap... Comcrap's SUBSCRIBERS are trying PULL additional bandwidth from Level3. If anyone should be paying anyone more, it should be Comcast paying Level3, not the other way around.

Waah waah, I want to have my cake and eat it too! And people wonder why the Comcrap+NBCU merger would be a BAD thing.

It is ridiculous to charge a flat rate for a limited utility! We should be paying per-megabyte for internet usage.

Bullshit. Unless we're talking about 0.000001/MB, which is more than fair for current capacity allocation.

 

[spidey07]

Hey, dipshit... here's a hint. Level3 isn't trying to push additional bandwidth to Comcrap... Comcrap's SUBSCRIBERS are trying PULL additional bandwidth from Level3. If anyone should be paying anyone more, it should be Comcast paying Level3, not the other way around.

Waah waah, I want to have my cake and eat it too! And people wonder why the Comcrap+NBCU merger would be a BAD thing.

lolwut? You can't be serious.

 

[her209]

Let's say the two can't resolve their peering agreement and its not renewed. Is the Netflix traffic is going magically go away? Hell no. Is Comcast ready to start charging its other peers?

 

[Vette73]

http://blog.comcast.com/2010/11/comcast-comments-on-level-3.html

Comcast board. Not going the way they had hoped.

 

[Modelworks]

More explanations here...again, understand how the internet works, this has NOTHING to do with netflix or video and just amount of traffic in a particular direction.

Where do you think the sudden increase of traffic is coming from ? The netflix contract they just won. Akamai didn't have this issue. I guess they had better contracts or lawyers.

The way I see it is if comcast wants more and level3 is not willing to pay that, then cut off comcast user traffic. Then comcast can tell its users why they no longer have access to level3 hosted content.

Only in telecom can comcast blame level3 when it is comcast users requesting the content and not content level3 is selling or forcing on them.
That is what is wrong with these type of peering arrangements and why they need to die out. If you have x amount of customers with y amount of speed and have the proper network then it doesn't matter what content your users receive.

It is when you cut improvements in favor of profits that it becomes a problem.

 

[SunnyD]

lolwut? You can't be serious.

Yes, I am. Is Level3 PUSHING data onto Comcast? No... Comcast's subscribers are pulling the data from Level3. How hard is this to understand? If you want to bill for usage, bill the right people - the CONSUMER, not the PROVIDER.

 

[Homerboy]

I don't remember the players but that sounds familiar and it's happened more than once.

-edit to your edit-
Cogent sounds familiar.

I was right Sprint vs Cogent, almost exactly 2 years ago too!
http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2008/10/31/peering-dispute-between-cogent-sprint/

People here that are NOT getting the situation described in the OP, need to read the article. It paints a nice, simple picture for you. They shoulda just pulled the plug like Sprint did THEN you'd hear some serious bitching.

 

[Patranus]

Yes, I am. Is Level3 PUSHING data onto Comcast? No... Comcast's subscribers are pulling the data from Level3. How hard is this to understand? If you want to bill for usage, bill the right people - the CONSUMER, not the PROVIDER.

So then Comcast should raise fees to the consumer because they are using more infrastructure?

 

[PingSpike]

Maybe comcast would have a more even up and down traffic usage if they didn't sell end consumer connections that were 75mb/s downstream 12kb/s upsteam.

 

[Modelworks]

Yes, I am. Is Level3 PUSHING data onto Comcast? No... Comcast's subscribers are pulling the data from Level3. How hard is this to understand? If you want to bill for usage, bill the right people - the CONSUMER, not the PROVIDER.

Telecom thinking requires lack of logic:
Food is made and boxed up -netflix
Food has to get to the store via freight and shipping - level 3
The store stocks and sells the food - comcast
The store complains they can't keep the shelves stocked because customers are buying too much and want to charge the freight company to expand the store.

 

[ElFenix]

So then Comcast should raise fees to the consumer because they are using more infrastructure?

well it's either raise fees on consumers directly or do it indirectly by billing the people the consumers are getting traffic from. netflix did just increase its fees.

 

[dmcowen674]

Bye-bye Net Neutrality.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...l-booth-netflix-web-partner-level-3-says.html

Remember all those on here that said it would never happen.

I bet they work at Crapcast.

 

[Vette73]

Ad this is why net neutrality woudl actually protect bandwith providers as well.

Whats to stop Level3 from saying if you charge X for per but we charge X +1 and on and on.
Treat all the same and charge the same. Comcast charges X per bit Level 3 charges X per bit. Any cross traffic cancels out and the one that uses the most pays the differance. This also keeps providers from under-bidding and making others pay for their deal, like the spring/cogent problem.

Treat and charge every bit/byte the same.

 

[Vette73]

So then Comcast should raise fees to the consumer because they are using more infrastructure?

They already did and they have Caps now. Before I would agree but with Caps you pay for up to X amount and anythign over cost more.
So Comcast already has increased rates to the end user requesting the data. If they go over then their bill gets bigger.

 

[techs]

Remember all those on here that said it would never happen.

I bet they work at Crapcast.

Being right certainly isn't popular. However, it never fails to provide the warm and fuzzy feeling you get when you realize are one of the few people with brains and the rest are just a waste of space.

 

[Genx87]

Where do you think the sudden increase of traffic is coming from ? The netflix contract they just won. Akamai didn't have this issue. I guess they had better contracts or lawyers.

The way I see it is if comcast wants more and level3 is not willing to pay that, then cut off comcast user traffic. Then comcast can tell its users why they no longer have access to level3 hosted content.

Only in telecom can comcast blame level3 when it is comcast users requesting the content and not content level3 is selling or forcing on them.
That is what is wrong with these type of peering arrangements and why they need to die out. If you have x amount of customers with y amount of speed and have the proper network then it doesn't matter what content your users receive.

It is when you cut improvements in favor of profits that it becomes a problem.

How do you know know what was in the agreement between Comcast and Akamai? That said what does that agreement have to do with this situation?

 

[Patranus]

Ad this is why net neutrality woudl actually protect bandwith providers as well.

Whats to stop Level3 from saying if you charge X for per but we charge X +1 and on and on.
Treat all the same and charge the same. Comcast charges X per bit Level 3 charges X per bit. Any cross traffic cancels out and the one that uses the most pays the differance. This also keeps providers from under-bidding and making others pay for their deal, like the spring/cogent problem.

Treat and charge every bit/byte the same.

Huh?

This has nothing to do with net neutrality.

Net neutrality is the race card of the tech world.

 

[Genx87]

Yes, I am. Is Level3 PUSHING data onto Comcast? No... Comcast's subscribers are pulling the data from Level3. How hard is this to understand? If you want to bill for usage, bill the right people - the CONSUMER, not the PROVIDER.

They are, who do you think will ultimately pay for this fee? The netflix userbase.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

So then Comcast should raise fees to the consumer because they are using more infrastructure?

You're going to pay for it regardless -- either through Comcast, increased Netflix fees or, more likely, a combination of both. Mass streaming of movies, etc. is still relatively new -- wait until the mail-in DVD models are basically gone and everything is done via internet streaming. Do you think Comcast and others are going to sit idly by while their network utilization quadruples or more? Of course not -- they'll charge more and those ISPs not utilizing tiered service pricing will quickly introduce service tiers.

 

[techs]

Interesting that no one has mentioned the timing.
With Congress coming back in a lame duck session there are a lot of soon to be unemployed Congresspeople who are going to need jobs.

Good time for Comcrap to use its money to buy influence against Congressional action.

 

[Genx87]

Ad this is why net neutrality woudl actually protect bandwith providers as well.

Whats to stop Level3 from saying if you charge X for per but we charge X +1 and on and on.
Treat all the same and charge the same. Comcast charges X per bit Level 3 charges X per bit. Any cross traffic cancels out and the one that uses the most pays the differance. This also keeps providers from under-bidding and making others pay for their deal, like the spring/cogent problem.

Treat and charge every bit/byte the same.

What do you think a contract is? What you describe would be outlined within an enforeable contract. Level 3 has a current contract that is going to be voided because they are going to exceed and break the contract. Thus the renegotiation between the two networks.

 

[Deathhorse]

do people actually hit the cap? I have cc and never had any issues thus far and I game and dl like crazy.