Columbia student writes about ROTC

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,941
1
0
I found this very offensive and I don't support the war in Iraq or anything like that. For someone to blatantly direspect our military is shameful and his arguments simply point to his own ignorance on the issues. Ugh, I'm humiliated to think this guy is a college student like me.

particularly, i find his first sentence rather ironic:
Fight ignorance and misunderstanding about the military at Columbia.

article link

What do you guys think?
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
"So basically, if you want to get extra money to go to school, you have to learn how to kill people. Even if this does increase the amount of diversity here, this is not how the diversity should be created, with white students being doctors and lawyers, and blacks and Latinos being soldiers." :thumbsup:

He doesn't want the local low-income kids suckered into becoming cannon-fodder.
What is the problem with this? The ROTC targets these kids on purpose. Hope they keep ROTC out for another 30 years.
They want recruits there are plenty of well-off republican kids excited about this war. Send them.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
"So basically, if you want to get extra money to go to school, you have to learn how to kill people. Even if this does increase the amount of diversity here, this is not how the diversity should be created, with white students being doctors and lawyers, and blacks and Latinos being soldiers." :thumbsup:

He doesn't want the local low-income kids suckered into becoming cannon-fodder.
What is the problem with this? The ROTC targets these kids on purpose. Hope they keep ROTC out for another 30 years.
They want recruits there are plenty of well-off republican kids excited about this war. Send them.
His governing axiom is flawed: there are plenty of other ways to pay for college. Student loans, scholarships, and so on. At least in my experience, people don't join ROTC because they need to pay for school. They join because they want to be in the military. If the military helps them pay for school, great. Fact is, if you get a degree from Columbia, you'll be able to pay off any student loans you incur without much worry unless you join the Peace Corps upon graduation.
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
I found this very offensive and I don't support the war in Iraq or anything like that. For someone to blatantly direspect our military is shameful and his arguments simply point to his own ignorance on the issues. Ugh, I'm humiliated to think this guy is a college student like me.

particularly, i find his first sentence rather ironic:
Fight ignorance and misunderstanding about the military at Columbia.

article link

What do you guys think?

We would be concerned if Columbia grads don't know jack about fighting? Why? Makes them wusses and easy. I say encourage this in the blue states.

 

digitalsm

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2003
5,253
0
0
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
"So basically, if you want to get extra money to go to school, you have to learn how to kill people. Even if this does increase the amount of diversity here, this is not how the diversity should be created, with white students being doctors and lawyers, and blacks and Latinos being soldiers." :thumbsup:

He doesn't want the local low-income kids suckered into becoming cannon-fodder.
What is the problem with this? The ROTC targets these kids on purpose. Hope they keep ROTC out for another 30 years.
They want recruits there are plenty of well-off republican kids excited about this war. Send them.

ROTC doesnt have service requirement. And no they dont target minorities. And that dude is freaking moron that doesnt have a clue on reality. Most high ranking military people have multiple degrees, quite a few have multiple advanced degrees depending on what they do. If anyone is ignorant about ROTC or the military in general it is that author.
 

totalcommand

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2004
2,487
0
0
Bottom line is, ROTC would not be accepted by Columbia students, for the tolerance issue alone.
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,157
0
0
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Bottom line is, ROTC would not be accepted by Columbia students, for the tolerance issue alone.

Liberal academic intellectual tolerance at its best! If they want that "freedom" from ROTC, then they can also have freedom from Pell grants and Stafford, PLUS or Perkins loans. No government economic tyranny for them! Maybe MoveOn.org can set up a scholarship fund.
 

totalcommand

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2004
2,487
0
0
Originally posted by: AndrewR
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Bottom line is, ROTC would not be accepted by Columbia students, for the tolerance issue alone.

Liberal academic intellectual tolerance at its best! If they want that "freedom" from ROTC, then they can also have freedom from Pell grants and Stafford, PLUS or Perkins loans. No government economic tyranny for them! Maybe MoveOn.org can set up a scholarship fund.

They aren't complaining about anything economic related. It's simply intolerance in the military. If Bush wants to tie federal funding to the ROTC, he can do his best to try. But I can guarantee you Columbia will not stand for that since they are totally unrelated, and it would be a simple intimidation tactic by Bush.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
76
Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
I found this very offensive and I don't support the war in Iraq or anything like that. For someone to blatantly direspect our military is shameful and his arguments simply point to his own ignorance on the issues. Ugh, I'm humiliated to think this guy is a college student like me.

particularly, i find his first sentence rather ironic:
Fight ignorance and misunderstanding about the military at Columbia.

article link

What do you guys think?

The kid has some serious issuses...

We do not want a military presence on this campus, and we do not wish to see our school assisting the U.S. military in any way.
 

totalcommand

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2004
2,487
0
0
Originally posted by: Tabb
Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
I found this very offensive and I don't support the war in Iraq or anything like that. For someone to blatantly direspect our military is shameful and his arguments simply point to his own ignorance on the issues. Ugh, I'm humiliated to think this guy is a college student like me.

particularly, i find his first sentence rather ironic:
Fight ignorance and misunderstanding about the military at Columbia.

article link

What do you guys think?

The kid has some serious issuses...

We do not want a military presence on this campus, and we do not wish to see our school assisting the U.S. military in any way.


I guess I have some issues then cause I agree with the kid. Why support something that stands for intolerance? It has nothing to do with the actual soldiers in the military. They are awesome people. It has to do with the intolerant policies toward gays in the military.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
76
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Originally posted by: Tabb
Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
I found this very offensive and I don't support the war in Iraq or anything like that. For someone to blatantly direspect our military is shameful and his arguments simply point to his own ignorance on the issues. Ugh, I'm humiliated to think this guy is a college student like me.

particularly, i find his first sentence rather ironic:
Fight ignorance and misunderstanding about the military at Columbia.

article link

What do you guys think?

The kid has some serious issuses...

We do not want a military presence on this campus, and we do not wish to see our school assisting the U.S. military in any way.


I guess I have some issues then cause I agree with the kid. Why support something that stands for intolerance? It has nothing to do with the actual soldiers in the military. They are awesome people. It has to do with the intolerant policies toward gays in the military.


Can you read?

We do not want a military presence on this campus, and we do not wish to see our school assisting the U.S. military in any way.

Thats just disturbing. They don't want to help out the military in anyway. How do you expect to become tolerant of others? How do expect to have a honorable military if you don't help them out when they need it? He's being a sterotypical liberal nutcase. It's not like every solider supports the war.

:confused:

I support my military and the fact they are being peace to Iraq. What I don't support is the methods they are using and the reasons for the war.
 

totalcommand

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2004
2,487
0
0
Originally posted by: Tabb
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Originally posted by: Tabb
Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
I found this very offensive and I don't support the war in Iraq or anything like that. For someone to blatantly direspect our military is shameful and his arguments simply point to his own ignorance on the issues. Ugh, I'm humiliated to think this guy is a college student like me.

particularly, i find his first sentence rather ironic:
Fight ignorance and misunderstanding about the military at Columbia.

article link

What do you guys think?

The kid has some serious issuses...

We do not want a military presence on this campus, and we do not wish to see our school assisting the U.S. military in any way.


I guess I have some issues then cause I agree with the kid. Why support something that stands for intolerance? It has nothing to do with the actual soldiers in the military. They are awesome people. It has to do with the intolerant policies toward gays in the military.


Can you read?

We do not want a military presence on this campus, and we do not wish to see our school assisting the U.S. military in any way.

Thats just disturbing. They don't want to help out the military in anyway. How do you expect to become tolerant of others? How do expect to have a honorable military if you don't help them out when they need it? He's being a sterotypical liberal nutcase. It's not like every solider supports the war.

:confused:

I support my military and the fact they are being peace to Iraq. What I don't support is the methods they are using and the reasons for the war.

The students of Columbia and the Columbia administration are not soldiers. They are not required to assist the military in any way. In my mind, it is clear that the we should support the troops, but Columbia should not provide *assistance* (ala ROTC) to the military as a whole - this would be an endorsement of intolerance in the military.

The part you quoted has nothing to do with hating the actual soldiers in the war, so I wasn't agreeing with that. I do think the writer is incorrect in saying:
anyone in uniform is just as guilty of enforcing the will of the United States via the use of force as the soldier who actually pulls the trigger.

In my mind, there is no guilt in enforcing the will of the U.S. *for a soldier or anyone in uniform*, but it is up to us (the normal citizens and those ugly politicians) to make sure that the Will of the US is correct in the first place.

 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: Condor
We would be concerned if Columbia grads don't know jack about fighting? Why? Makes them wusses and easy. I say encourage this in the blue states.

From what I remember from the Civil War, the blue states smacked down the red states... Inkling for another lesson?
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
76
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Originally posted by: Tabb
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Originally posted by: Tabb
Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
I found this very offensive and I don't support the war in Iraq or anything like that. For someone to blatantly direspect our military is shameful and his arguments simply point to his own ignorance on the issues. Ugh, I'm humiliated to think this guy is a college student like me.

particularly, i find his first sentence rather ironic:
Fight ignorance and misunderstanding about the military at Columbia.

article link

What do you guys think?

The kid has some serious issuses...

We do not want a military presence on this campus, and we do not wish to see our school assisting the U.S. military in any way.


I guess I have some issues then cause I agree with the kid. Why support something that stands for intolerance? It has nothing to do with the actual soldiers in the military. They are awesome people. It has to do with the intolerant policies toward gays in the military.


Can you read?

We do not want a military presence on this campus, and we do not wish to see our school assisting the U.S. military in any way.

Thats just disturbing. They don't want to help out the military in anyway. How do you expect to become tolerant of others? How do expect to have a honorable military if you don't help them out when they need it? He's being a sterotypical liberal nutcase. It's not like every solider supports the war.

:confused:

I support my military and the fact they are being peace to Iraq. What I don't support is the methods they are using and the reasons for the war.

The students of Columbia and the Columbia administration are not soldiers. They are not required to assist the military in any way. In my mind, it is clear that the we should support the troops, but Columbia should not provide *assistance* (ala ROTC) to the military as a whole - this would be an endorsement of intolerance in the military.

The part you quoted has nothing to do with hating the actual soldiers in the war, so I wasn't agreeing with that. I do think the writer is incorrect in saying:
anyone in uniform is just as guilty of enforcing the will of the United States via the use of force as the soldier who actually pulls the trigger.

In my mind, there is no guilt in enforcing the will of the U.S. *for a soldier or anyone in uniform*, but it is up to us (the normal citizens and those ugly politicians) to make sure that the Will of the US is correct in the first place.

Meh... I think I just took that quote a little bit too much... Though the peice is a bit over the top....
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
The University would be wise to continue the ban on ROTC at this campus. Should ROTC be allowed to return, I can guarantee that tensions on this campus will only increase, as the desires and whims of a select few will agitate the vast majority of students here at Columbia. If Lee Bollinger does not take care of this issue properly, I assure you that those who are opposed to the return of ROTC will handle the issue for him it for him.
A rather threatening conclusion on someone who's supposed to be standing for fairness and equity. Hopefully ROTC can return to this campus if just to piss off this nerd. :p
 

dannybek

Golden Member
Jul 19, 2002
1,096
0
0
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
"So basically, if you want to get extra money to go to school, you have to learn how to kill people. Even if this does increase the amount of diversity here, this is not how the diversity should be created, with white students being doctors and lawyers, and blacks and Latinos being soldiers." :thumbsup:

He doesn't want the local low-income kids suckered into becoming cannon-fodder.
What is the problem with this? The ROTC targets these kids on purpose. Hope they keep ROTC out for another 30 years.
They want recruits there are plenty of well-off republican kids excited about this war. Send them.

1. "He doesn't want the local low-income kids suckered into becoming cannon-fodder."

Statistics show that local low income kids do not attend Columbia University. The kids you talk about which are from Harlem, Washington Heights, et cetera go to colleges and universities that are drastically cheaper in tuition than CU.

2. "The ROTC targets these kids on purpose."
Reserve Officer Training Corps do not recruit of target kids. In fact the opposite is true. College and University students come to ROTC to gain experience. There is no obligation to serve in the military in ROTC without a commitment.

3. "Hope they keep ROTC out for another 30 years. They want recruits there are plenty of well-off republican kids excited about this war. Send them."

THERE ARE THOSE WHO HAVE SWEATED THEIR ASSES OFF IN JUNGLES, BEING SHOT AT FOR THIS NATION. WHAT IN THE HELL HAVE YOU DONE, YOU LITTLE SH*T SUCKING WEASEL? WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU PUT YOUR ASS ON THE LINE FOR ANYTHING? AND YET YOU HAVE THE UNMITIGATED TEMERITY TO SHOW UP HERE AND MOCK AND REDICULE OUR NATION AND MILITARY. I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ANOTHER WORD OUT OF THAT COMMIE CRYHOLE IN THAT SH*TPILE YOU CALL A HEAD! IN FACT GET THE F*CK OUT OF THE USA A*SHOLE!
 

totalcommand

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2004
2,487
0
0
Originally posted by: dannybek
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
"So basically, if you want to get extra money to go to school, you have to learn how to kill people. Even if this does increase the amount of diversity here, this is not how the diversity should be created, with white students being doctors and lawyers, and blacks and Latinos being soldiers." :thumbsup:

He doesn't want the local low-income kids suckered into becoming cannon-fodder.
What is the problem with this? The ROTC targets these kids on purpose. Hope they keep ROTC out for another 30 years.
They want recruits there are plenty of well-off republican kids excited about this war. Send them.

1. "He doesn't want the local low-income kids suckered into becoming cannon-fodder."

Statistics show that local low income kids do not attend Columbia University. The kids you talk about which are from Harlem, Washington Heights, et cetera go to colleges and universities that are drastically cheaper in tuition than CU.

2. "The ROTC targets these kids on purpose."
Reserve Officer Training Corps do not recruit of target kids. In fact the opposite is true. College and University students come to ROTC to gain experience. There is no obligation to serve in the military in ROTC without a commitment.

3. "Hope they keep ROTC out for another 30 years. They want recruits there are plenty of well-off republican kids excited about this war. Send them."

THERE ARE THOSE WHO HAVE SWEATED THEIR ASSES OFF IN JUNGLES, BEING SHOT AT FOR THIS NATION. WHAT IN THE HELL HAVE YOU DONE, YOU LITTLE SH*T SUCKING WEASEL? WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU PUT YOUR ASS ON THE LINE FOR ANYTHING? AND YET YOU HAVE THE UNMITIGATED TEMERITY TO SHOW UP HERE AND MOCK AND REDICULE OUR NATION AND MILITARY. I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ANOTHER WORD OUT OF THAT COMMIE CRYHOLE IN THAT SH*TPILE YOU CALL A HEAD! IN FACT GET THE F*CK OUT OF THE USA A*SHOLE!


Jeez, take it easy man. His issue obviously isn't with the military soldiers themselves. It's with the CINC, Mr. President Bush.

And you have no idea what anybody on this board has done for our nation. Let me remind you that there are many other ways than being a soldier to do right by our nation. Patriotism comes in all forms, and definitely in many many areas outside the military.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: dannybek
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
"So basically, if you want to get extra money to go to school, you have to learn how to kill people. Even if this does increase the amount of diversity here, this is not how the diversity should be created, with white students being doctors and lawyers, and blacks and Latinos being soldiers." :thumbsup:

He doesn't want the local low-income kids suckered into becoming cannon-fodder.
What is the problem with this? The ROTC targets these kids on purpose. Hope they keep ROTC out for another 30 years.
They want recruits there are plenty of well-off republican kids excited about this war. Send them.

1. "He doesn't want the local low-income kids suckered into becoming cannon-fodder."

Statistics show that local low income kids do not attend Columbia University. The kids you talk about which are from Harlem, Washington Heights, et cetera go to colleges and universities that are drastically cheaper in tuition than CU.

2. "The ROTC targets these kids on purpose."
Reserve Officer Training Corps do not recruit of target kids. In fact the opposite is true. College and University students come to ROTC to gain experience. There is no obligation to serve in the military in ROTC without a commitment.

3. "Hope they keep ROTC out for another 30 years. They want recruits there are plenty of well-off republican kids excited about this war. Send them."

THERE ARE THOSE WHO HAVE SWEATED THEIR ASSES OFF IN JUNGLES, BEING SHOT AT FOR THIS NATION. WHAT IN THE HELL HAVE YOU DONE, YOU LITTLE SH*T SUCKING WEASEL? WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU PUT YOUR ASS ON THE LINE FOR ANYTHING? AND YET YOU HAVE THE UNMITIGATED TEMERITY TO SHOW UP HERE AND MOCK AND REDICULE OUR NATION AND MILITARY. I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ANOTHER WORD OUT OF THAT COMMIE CRYHOLE IN THAT SH*TPILE YOU CALL A HEAD! IN FACT GET THE F*CK OUT OF THE USA A*SHOLE!

Uh huh when was the last time you took your medication and looked at the world through something besides a GI Joe/Fox news orgy? *hands over towel for frothing mouth.*
You sir know nothing about freedom and what this country means. Try joining a militia if you think the commies are coming.
*Proud former member of US armed services and proud outspoken American at what I feel is wrong, don't like it move to communist china -it would fit your mindset better.*
Oh yeah XYZ dude your e-penis is sticking out "tough guy". (see sig)
 

Rogue

Banned
Jan 28, 2000
5,774
0
0
Fact is, this kid is more ignorant, narrow minded and intolerant as anyone associated with any ROTC program anywhere. His worthless drivel is that of a floundering, assinine imp not worthy of the paper and ink wasted in the print and not worth the bandwidth used to host it either. It's sad and disturbing to me that this guy can write such inflammatory material all the while being so naiive about the world he lives in. I can almost guarantee that his first boss or senior manager will have served as a military officer, possibly even have come up through the ranks of ROTC somewhere as most successful business people have. Soon enough he will realize that nearly all the successful people around him at one time or another served our in our nation's military and have an education and knowledge about the world that dwarfs anything he'll ever accomplish with his "Columbia blinders" he appears to be flaunting.

Second, and I still hate having to justify anything this little punk says or spews, but the United States military is more humanitarian and has saved more lives than it's taken than any other organization in the world probably. When you include the strictly humanitarian missions to the security missions to allow humanitarian organizations to move in to all our wars agains repression and tyranny in nations around the world, the military has proven this pin head wrong a million or two times over. The use of military might is the surgeons equivalent of amputation sometimes. There are times that in order to save the whole human life, you have to remove a large piece of it so the rest can become healthy again. No one with even an inkling of knowledge in modern medicine would stand idly by and let a rotting limb, easily removed, to fester and kill the entire life left in the afflicted party. That's about as good an anaolgy as it gets, I hope you'll agree, because in any case, it's never the military's intent to go in and simply decimate and destroy everything it sees, otherwise we'd still be nuking everything in sight and wouldn't waste good humans and money on silly things like smart bombs.

Finally, the "gays in the military/don't ask, don't tell" issue is really all but dead across most of the Army in my experience. Hell, I have served with openly gay soldiers and no one has done a damn thing about it. All too often, the statistics you all get in the news media are those "self professed" gays who simply pull the "gay card" because they know it's a ticket out of the situation they got themselves in and more often than not are as straight as an arrow once they get chaptered out. Sadly, the policy has more often than not, become simply a gateway for otherwise heterosexual soldiers to weasel out of their obligation and contract with the service.

On another note, it's sad that dannybek should see fit to lose all kinds of candor and professionalism in the manner that he did. He's done the equivalent of drink gasoline and piss on a roaring camp fire.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: Rogue

Second, and I still hate having to justify anything this little punk says or spews, but the United States military is more humanitarian and has saved more lives than it's taken than any other organization in the world probably. When you include the strictly humanitarian missions to the security missions to allow humanitarian organizations to move in to all our wars agains repression and tyranny in nations around the world, the military has proven this pin head wrong a million or two times over. The use of military might is the surgeons equivalent of amputation sometimes. There are times that in order to save the whole human life, you have to remove a large piece of it so the rest can become healthy again. No one with even an inkling of knowledge in modern medicine would stand idly by and let a rotting limb, easily removed, to fester and kill the entire life left in the afflicted party. That's about as good an anaolgy as it gets, I hope you'll agree, because in any case, it's never the military's intent to go in and simply decimate and destroy everything it sees, otherwise we'd still be nuking everything in sight and wouldn't waste good humans and money on silly things like smart bombs.

Your surgeon analogy is good but when the doctor obiviously misdiagnoses the case in the face of everyone telling him it is wrong and he goes ahead and takes a machete to the patients head anyway there is a problem.
 

Rogue

Banned
Jan 28, 2000
5,774
0
0
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Rogue

Second, and I still hate having to justify anything this little punk says or spews, but the United States military is more humanitarian and has saved more lives than it's taken than any other organization in the world probably. When you include the strictly humanitarian missions to the security missions to allow humanitarian organizations to move in to all our wars agains repression and tyranny in nations around the world, the military has proven this pin head wrong a million or two times over. The use of military might is the surgeons equivalent of amputation sometimes. There are times that in order to save the whole human life, you have to remove a large piece of it so the rest can become healthy again. No one with even an inkling of knowledge in modern medicine would stand idly by and let a rotting limb, easily removed, to fester and kill the entire life left in the afflicted party. That's about as good an anaolgy as it gets, I hope you'll agree, because in any case, it's never the military's intent to go in and simply decimate and destroy everything it sees, otherwise we'd still be nuking everything in sight and wouldn't waste good humans and money on silly things like smart bombs.

Your surgeon analogy is good but when the doctor obiviously misdiagnoses the case in the face of everyone telling him it is wrong and he goes ahead and takes a machete to the paitents head anyway there is a problem.

An equally astute retort. America had it's change at a malpractice suit, but the other doctor was still an intern, if you catch my drift, or not. Our choices this past election were more akin to amputating above the knee joint, or below the knee joint, either one a tough decision. Hopefully prosthetic legs will improve in the next four years and the doctors will buy a lot more malpractice insurance. :D
 

Proletariat

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2004
5,614
0
0
I don't see the problem here. He doesn't want them on campus. Thats fine, they are a private institution and he/his family pays taxes that fund the military. Take it easy people.
 

totalcommand

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2004
2,487
0
0
Originally posted by: Proletariat
I don't see the problem here. He doesn't want them on campus. Thats fine, they are a private institution and he/his family pays taxes that fund the military. Take it easy people.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Listen to this man.