My friend and I have been talking about college to apply to and we began talking about the Ivy League schools and we know what the web pages post as their mean board scores and mean GPAs, etc.. But we looked at Dartmouth and Brown.. now our question is, will a semi-above average student with SAT scores around 1400 and a GPA of between 4 and 4.2 or so get into these types of schools? Yes, but it would be a shot in the dark? This is about where we are academically, averaged out. You think we should even waste our money on the application fees? (Please no need to berate me if we are thinking ludicrous thoughts here)
College admission question..
- Thread starter TheVrolok
- Start date
I"m just going ahead and give you a ^bump^, and at the same time, give you a semi helpful answer.
4.xx is pretty darn good for your GPA man. and 1400 is pretty nice. I guess it all comes down to how your transcript looks. If you have done lots of community serivce, participated in school orginizations, activites, etc etc, then your chances are pretty good. If you haven't, well, I would just take the chance and send in the application and see what happens.....
4.xx is pretty darn good for your GPA man. and 1400 is pretty nice. I guess it all comes down to how your transcript looks. If you have done lots of community serivce, participated in school orginizations, activites, etc etc, then your chances are pretty good. If you haven't, well, I would just take the chance and send in the application and see what happens.....
I had those scores and a 4.0 on a 4.0 scale (straight A's all through HS). I got in everywhere I applied, but that didn't mean I could afford to get there. Don't pay $100,000 or more for an undergrad education. It isn't worth it, especially in engineering and the sciences. Math is math, no matter how much you pay for the class.
Good luck in your application and choice though.
Ryan
Good luck in your application and choice though.
Ryan
yeah 4.xx is pretty good, but it also depends on the difficulty of the classes you have taken.
getting a B in calculus will look better than an A in PE
getting a B in calculus will look better than an A in PE
It's all a crapshoot. All of it.
I had better scores than you and a perfect unweighted GPA (although I only graduated around 16 in my class because of my extra-curricular classes) and some pretty nice extra-curricular activities and I was rejected from Brown (although I was accepted to Cornell, Rice, Johns Hopkins and a few others). You have to have your personality shine on yoru application. Brown is a random school; a girl with a 1350 from my school was accepted. Two of my friends who got into Stanford and Harvard were rejected from Brown.
Since Brown has an SAT average of less than 1400, you might as well give it a shot. But my question is this: scores and GPA alone WILL NOT get you into a good college, so what are your extra-curriculars like?
If you want a more accurate assessment, or to get advice from other students who go there or who have gone through the process, check out the forums (extremely busy with traffic) on the Princeton Review website...
http://discuss.review.com/forums/index.cfm?cfapp=3
I had better scores than you and a perfect unweighted GPA (although I only graduated around 16 in my class because of my extra-curricular classes) and some pretty nice extra-curricular activities and I was rejected from Brown (although I was accepted to Cornell, Rice, Johns Hopkins and a few others). You have to have your personality shine on yoru application. Brown is a random school; a girl with a 1350 from my school was accepted. Two of my friends who got into Stanford and Harvard were rejected from Brown.
Since Brown has an SAT average of less than 1400, you might as well give it a shot. But my question is this: scores and GPA alone WILL NOT get you into a good college, so what are your extra-curriculars like?
If you want a more accurate assessment, or to get advice from other students who go there or who have gone through the process, check out the forums (extremely busy with traffic) on the Princeton Review website...
http://discuss.review.com/forums/index.cfm?cfapp=3
How were your SAT scores though? And what were some schools you applied to?
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Einz, maybe he didn't have enough extracurriculars?
One of my good friends graduated with a 4.5 GPA, had pretty decent SAT scores, has been doing volunteer service since junior high, played in the school orhestra, bakersfield youth symphony, and the bakersfield symphony orchestra and got rejected by Harvard. I do know 2 people, however, who got accepted to MIT. When one of them went to visit, he said he met people there who had taken calculous in middle school.
I'm going to be a Junior next year, so I'm starting my college search now. My GPA is ~3.9 on a 4.0 max scale, though it should be higher, and I got a 32 on the ACT's this summer. I've also taken a full complement of honors and AP courses. For some reason, in Ohio ACT scores are more important than SATs. A lot of people don't even take SAT's if they go in-state. My extra-curriculars are pretty good... School Orchestra, Area Youth Orchestra, Orchestra Pit for Theater (Catching a theme?), District Orchestra, Regional Orchestra, Computer Club, History Club, Golf (2 years), Tennis(1 year), and Academic Challenge team. In a dream world, I'd be going to Carnegie Mellon. I sent my ACT scores to them and it said they would be in the top quarter there. But this thread is scaring me. I thought I wouldn't have trouble getting in to wherever I wanted (paying is another matter), but if people are getting 1600s and not getting into places, that's scary. I think I can improve on my ACTs, since I didn't even finish some sections, but only by a point or two.
A point or two is quite big. A 32 is a pretty good scores, and you can do fine with it. CMU isn't as selective as, say, Rice, Stanford, Northwester, Brown, Dartmouth, MIT or Harvard or any of the other top 20 (U.S. News) schools that were mentioned in this thread. If you apply ED, I would be surprised if they rejected you. I think you'll do fine...of course, the Science and Engineering schools at Carnegie Mellon are the hardest to get into, but you'd be fine.
Did you ever think about trying the SATs?
just be sincere in your application. if harvard doesnt accept you, who cares? dont let your school determine how much success you'll have down the road
(this is from my own experience and that of my friends) If you're a White Male with a decent GPA and reasonable extracurriculars, you need SAT/ACT above the 75% mark to have a good chance of getting in. I.e., if they list 1470-1520 as their 25%-75% SAT scores, you'd need at least 1520. This was exactly how it worked out for me. All of the schools where I was over the 75% mark, I was accepted. The schools where I was right at the mark, I was wait-listed. The schools where I was below the mark, I was rejected. I was applying only to top-15 schools. My SAT was 1520.
If you're Asian (inc. Indian), you might have to be even higher. If you're female, you can go lower, and if you're an under-represented minority (i.e. Black or Hispanic) you can probably get into Harvard with a 1400. It may sound bad but it's true -- this kind of thing happens all over the place especially in the very top schools.
If you're Asian (inc. Indian), you might have to be even higher. If you're female, you can go lower, and if you're an under-represented minority (i.e. Black or Hispanic) you can probably get into Harvard with a 1400. It may sound bad but it's true -- this kind of thing happens all over the place especially in the very top schools.
I would believe that is a stereotype. Asians are still considered a minority and under-represented. Dartmouth and Brown are very picky. When I applied to college, my stats were not all that great. I had a 4.0 GPA, valedictorian, a lot of volunteer work, and a poor SAT score that did not crack the 1400 mark.
If you are a typical white male, you will definitely have a harder time getting in. However, colleges do look for special students. They may be in need for an oba (sp?) player or something of the sort. If you were that person and had decent scores, you would get in.
My whole ordeal got real messy with early decision and whatnot, but I won't go into detail. I did end up at the #1 Liberal Arts college in the country.
I will take them some time this year. Another big test this year is the PSATs. I took them as a Soph and did pretty good (94th percentile) so I have a chance, be it a tiny one, at National Merit Scholar if I do well. Unfortunately, I don't have much of a shot at valedictorian even if I pull off a 4.0 from now on, because I took study halls my first two years and that kills your class rank at my school. I have a class of about 120 people, so I have to be in the top 5 kids or so to be top 5%.
My parents are both OSU educated, and they are 'reverse-snobs'. They don't think it is worth it to spend the money to go to an Ivy League or equivalent school when you could get the same education elsewhere. So I've been told they will pay for state school, and if I decide to go somewhere else I'll have to make up the rest with scholarships/loans. Not a bad deal.
PowerEngineer
Diamond Member
- Oct 22, 2001
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My own experience is a bit dated, but will share it anyway. 
Years back when I was looking for a good engineering school, my aunt was teaching at Yale. She showed the Dean of Engineering my grades and scores, and he told her I would have no trouble getting in. And with an aunt teaching there too -- have to be a shoe-in! So, the rejection letter came as a real shocker. My aunt did a little investigating and found that my application was discounted because they had never had any students from my small high school in Wisconsin. The really wierd thing was that applications from high schools whose students had done poorly at Yale in the past were not discounted as much as those like mine who were "unknowns". As Eniz says, it's hard to know exactly what admissions people are looking at -- particularly at the prestegious schools where everyone has high grades, high test scores, and good extracuriculars.
Here's my advice: Go for it! Apply to as many schools as you can. After you've filled in a few of the college application forms, the incremental work (and expense) to complete the next one is minimal. Worst they can say is "no". If you don't apply to Dartmouth and Brwon now, you'll wonder about what might have been for the rest of your life; best to find out now.
Then you can take all your "yes" responses, and see which offers you the best "bang for your buck". The expensive schools often provide more generous financial aid, which might actually mean fewer dollars out of your pocket.
Good luck!
Years back when I was looking for a good engineering school, my aunt was teaching at Yale. She showed the Dean of Engineering my grades and scores, and he told her I would have no trouble getting in. And with an aunt teaching there too -- have to be a shoe-in! So, the rejection letter came as a real shocker. My aunt did a little investigating and found that my application was discounted because they had never had any students from my small high school in Wisconsin. The really wierd thing was that applications from high schools whose students had done poorly at Yale in the past were not discounted as much as those like mine who were "unknowns". As Eniz says, it's hard to know exactly what admissions people are looking at -- particularly at the prestegious schools where everyone has high grades, high test scores, and good extracuriculars.
Here's my advice: Go for it! Apply to as many schools as you can. After you've filled in a few of the college application forms, the incremental work (and expense) to complete the next one is minimal. Worst they can say is "no". If you don't apply to Dartmouth and Brwon now, you'll wonder about what might have been for the rest of your life; best to find out now.
Then you can take all your "yes" responses, and see which offers you the best "bang for your buck". The expensive schools often provide more generous financial aid, which might actually mean fewer dollars out of your pocket.
Good luck!
Am I nuts? I'd like your opinion.
I will be applying to Brown as a Junior this year.
Freshman GPA: 2.5/3.0 Weighted 125/375
Sophomore GPA: 3.975/4.67 Weighted ~4/375
Combined I rank 46/375
SAT should be 1550+ (according to practice tests)
SATIIs will be a bit rushed, but should average above 750 (estimates based on Writing/Lit practices and optimism)
I have a great sob story. My freshman year was a struggle with Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder which aggravated my case of Malnutrition. I was forced, by both parents and my psychologist, to take antidepressants, which continued despite my complaints of "dullness" for most of the year. Over the summer, I began another treatment and have made a dramatic recovery, as have my grades. I've spent the summer as an Neuropsychological intern and will be participating in future research there. Will be taking AP European History as well as AP Physics, a class traditionally taken only by seniors after completing Honors Physics (at the hellhole where I go to school).
It should be interesting, and I'm prepared for a very depressing april.
I should also note that the reason I am applying only to Brown is that I am not comfortable leaving the RI area at this point. Otherwise, I would apply to schools where my chances exceed those of a duck.
I think I'm nuts.
I will be applying to Brown as a Junior this year.
Freshman GPA: 2.5/3.0 Weighted 125/375
Sophomore GPA: 3.975/4.67 Weighted ~4/375
Combined I rank 46/375
SAT should be 1550+ (according to practice tests)
SATIIs will be a bit rushed, but should average above 750 (estimates based on Writing/Lit practices and optimism)
I have a great sob story. My freshman year was a struggle with Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder which aggravated my case of Malnutrition. I was forced, by both parents and my psychologist, to take antidepressants, which continued despite my complaints of "dullness" for most of the year. Over the summer, I began another treatment and have made a dramatic recovery, as have my grades. I've spent the summer as an Neuropsychological intern and will be participating in future research there. Will be taking AP European History as well as AP Physics, a class traditionally taken only by seniors after completing Honors Physics (at the hellhole where I go to school).
It should be interesting, and I'm prepared for a very depressing april.
I should also note that the reason I am applying only to Brown is that I am not comfortable leaving the RI area at this point. Otherwise, I would apply to schools where my chances exceed those of a duck.
I think I'm nuts.
PowerEngineer
Diamond Member
- Oct 22, 2001
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Go for it anyway! What have you got to lose? Why should you say "no" to yourself? Find out if they'll say "no" to you!
MisterPants, def. go for it. Just don't get your hopes up
You won't have to wait til April for the depression to start. Some schools start sending rejection letters in early March, i.e. MIT.
You won't have to wait til April for the depression to start. Some schools start sending rejection letters in early March, i.e. MIT.
Just how important are the extra-curriculars, I am not in the least bit musically inclined, sports inclined, atleast not school sports, nor am I in any of the clubs. I will be taking pre-calc this year, along with physics AP, then my senior year I will be taking calc and physics AP, debating about a third year of spanish still, if I take it and a couple more AP classes I can graduate with the distinguished plan, but how much difference will that really make? If I decide to go that route I would be taking English III AP, and English IV AP, dual credit, and Biology II AP, all of which I know I can pull off with very little trouble seeing as how I am very good in those subjects as it is, heck I don't even bother to study for the test in English nor did I for the biology course I took my freshmen year, but I am very good in the sciences, even did good in chemistry pre-AP with a very cr@py teacher. On top of those courses, I am already planning on taking my next several history classes as AP courses which won't be a problem at all. Most of these classes I just set in and let my mind wonder, not paying the least bit of attention to what is going on and do just fine, the only classes I had a B in were chemistry and Spanish, the chemistry was largely because of the cr@py teacher and me not putting any effort out, this is the same class that the top student in my class lost his spot because of, he was hard pressed to keep a low A/ high B average in this class, I stayed with about an 85-86 average in that class for the year. As for spanish, if I could stay awake I would have high A's all year, but it just truly bores me, because I just really don't care, yeah not a good thing but anyways, if I could only make myself put some effort out... I took one of the practice PSAT's, and did good on it, but can't remember what I made on it, as that was at the end of last year. I am one of those people who can get up at 5:00am and type a 8 page report, of which I am lucky if I even have anything over the required amount of notes taken for to get a check grade for, this includes reports that I have had several weeks to work on, and usually one weeks worth of the class was spent in the library. On a side note I have taken a couple of different computer courses, the one I took last year was C++ programming, debating about taken it again just because there is normally not enough people to take it, and it is supposed to be a junior and senior class only, though I was a sophmore last year and took it, can you say 100 average all year. The other reason is that the guy who teaches the class is really cool and doesn't really care what we do as long as we have the required programs turned in by the end of each six weeks, though he did actuall teach us, but it was the first year the class actuall had enough sign up for so he was learning a lot of it as we were. Also I am debating about taking a computer class that will count as 2 credits, and is taught through one of the local computer companies, you can get a total of 4 credits from it if you take it your senior year also, but I really don't know if it is worth taking, doubtful that I will learn anything, though I would get to play a lot of computer games, but how would it look on my transcript. I am really looking into becoming a mechanical engineer if that makes any difference. If anyone has any good recommendations for a good engineering school let me know what they are, as I have truly not even looked into colleges yet, haven't even given it much of a thought.
ok, sorry about the long post, I am really tired and couldn't stop typing....
ok, sorry about the long post, I am really tired and couldn't stop typing....
Yep, had all of that (1390 SAT, #7 in class out of 720), got rejected from John's Hopkins, UPenn, Princeton. Took AP, had decent extracurriculars, played soccer. Nope, nothing. I guess write a decent essay, but most of it is how generous your admissions person is feeling that day.
So I'm going to Bucknell for next to nothing, and will probably do a lot better when I'm not 1 in 30,000 people. Instead I'll have small classes, get to know professors well, and enjoy myself a whole lot more.
So I'm going to Bucknell for next to nothing, and will probably do a lot better when I'm not 1 in 30,000 people. Instead I'll have small classes, get to know professors well, and enjoy myself a whole lot more.
1400 SAT (650 Verbal, 750 Math)
I applied to KU and K-State, but they had to let me in. I also applied to Colorado School of Mines and Washington University in St Louis. I had no real interest in going to an ivy league school as I planned on being an engineer. I ended up getting a free ride at KU in chemical engineering. I graduated in May 2001, and now I'm working on my PhD at Notre Dame. I'm happy with where I am and I thought I got a first rate education at KU.
There are some state schools that are fantastic in science and engineering... Take Purdue for example....
Ryan
3.6% of the U.S. population according to the 2000 Census.[/L Around 15% at most top universities: 17% at Harvard, 27% at MIT, 15% at Rice, 40% at Berkeley, 15% at UT-Austin, 18% at University of Chicago, "only" 10% at Dartmouth, 15% at Brown. Note that these are "Asian-American" and the real Asian population is higher because the International students are counted separately. Still sound "under-represented"? Sure there are always exceptions to the rule, but as a rule, they're the exceptions.
MisterPants You've got quite an interesting story. You've got great SATs and if your SAT II's are as high as you predict (they should be easier than the SAT I's actually -- I scored higher on all 3 of my SAT II's than on either part of my SAT I, and I got a 1520 combined on my SAT I) you would normally have no problem getting in, even with the grade problems. I say 'normally' because there's the little problem of your psychiatric issues. You've got to convince them that you're fully 'recovered' and doing very well and not likely to relapse. Colleges don't like to admit students who are nutcases. I knew a girl who 'tried' to commit suicide multiple times (not very seriously -- superficial cuts on her wrists, etc.). After her 2nd time in the psychiatric ward, she was unofficially kicked out of the school. Students like that are disruptive to professors (have to re-do tests, homework, etc.), administrators (have to stay in touch w/ hospital and parents, work things out between student and professors etc.), and other students (friends' lives will be disrupted by worries, visits to hospital, trying to comfort the student when he/she gets back into the dorm or wherever he/she lives, etc.). Of course you're not depressive/suicidal, but that was just an example that I know about personally.
Get *very* good recommendations from your counselor, teachers, and the person with whom you're interning this summer (good job getting an internship BTW). If you can prove to the admissions council your turnaround and current stability, you've got a pretty good chance. Good luck. And apply to a backup, for cryin' out loud. Weird stuff always happens. My best friend was rejected from all 8 of the schools to which he applied, because he basically applied to the top 8 schools in the country. He was waitlisted and *almost* got in at CalTech, but it didn't happen. So he sat at home for a semester before he went to the state school instead (UT-Austin), graduated in 3 semesters (he had taken *lots* of college courses in high school -- 3 classes per semester his senior year) and will be going with a scholarship to BYU's law school (he's not Mormon). Not too shabby.
Asians maybe a minority in the real-world, but in College and College admissions, they are considered an overrepresented minority. Ask any college admissions officer (I did, I'm of Indian-descent) and they will tell you the same. If anything, it hurts to be Asian. The only races that will help you are the true underrepresented ones in college: hispanic, african american, native american.
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