Colin Powell speaks out!!!!

[Starbuck1975]

A small, ideologically pure party that enforces strict discipline. Where have we seen that before?

A society desperate for change that buys into the celebrity and cult of a charismatic leader...where have we seen that before?

 

[gtd2000]

I have to admit Colin Powell was the only member of the old regime that I had any respect for - strange that he didn't make it to the second term.

Perhaps he was too good?

Of course, I realise all politicians are full of hot air

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: gtd2000
I have to admit Colin Powell was the only member of the old regime that I had any respect for - strange that he didn't make it to the second term.

Perhaps he was too good?

Of course, I realise all politicians are full of hot air

Well, Colin Powell isn't a politician in my mind. He was a career military man, and there's something about military man that suggests that they don't just fade away (regardless of what MacArthur said).

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Hopefully he will win over the GOP in the long run. The likes of Cheney and Fatbaugh will ensure that the Republicans slowly fade into irrelevance. I would like to be able to vote for them again once they regain their collective sanity.

Keep giving Limbaugh and Cheney the microphone. This will ensure the destruction of the GOP and the world will be better off for it.

I believe it was Hunter S. Thompson who said of Richard Nixon that he embodied everything that was "dark and venal in the American character." I think that Dick Cheney has ripped that right out of Nixon's rotten soul and planted it deep in Hades and has been fanning the fire ever since. Limbaugh I have endeavored to avoid completely, and been pretty successful.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: AFMatt

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Hopefully he will win over the GOP in the long run. The likes of Cheney and Fatbaugh will ensure that the Republicans slowly fade into irrelevance. I would like to be able to vote for them again once they regain their collective sanity.

Yeah, "win over the GOP" by supporting the likes of BHO last fall... :roll:

You can't blindly support a side just because it the side you are on. He picked the one he felt was best qualified to lead the nation. In this case, it happened to be a Democrat. I don't see anything wrong with that, but maybe that's just because it's how I always vote.

This. You cannot blindly support one party no matter what and still claim to be an informed voter. By that logic, the 'Reagan Democrats' had nothing to teach the democratic party back in the 80's. Bah! Any party that insists on blind loyalty taking precedence over common sense and pragmatism deserves to die.

Well, that would be the pragmatic underpinning of the American two party system. Yes, there are other parties but for as long as anyone can remember only two dominant parties. Where I live though it's difficult to find a Republican you can take seriously. In Berkeley, CA there are probably less than 1% registered Republicans in fact. The governor is a Republican but I think he's just an exception in general (Arnold!). He's one of a kind and you can't draw conclusions from him. Besides, his wife is a prominent Democrat.

The Republican party is in disarray. I think they will be considerably that for the next several years...

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

A small, ideologically pure party that enforces strict discipline. Where have we seen that before?

A society desperate for change that buys into the celebrity and cult of a charismatic leader...where have we seen that before?

John Kennedy. You're an idiot. The idiotic right criticizes our president for charisma. Not for charisma and bad policies - for charisma and good policies. Frickin idiots.

I *hate* the use of the word idiot in a message board, and I'm angry that you people are leaving me no choice post after post. You crawl out from under rocks it seems.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: gtd2000

Of course, I realise all politicians are full of hot air

Not all are.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Siddhartha

Originally posted by: techs
Just saw the results of a poll flash by on the telly. Shows Americans are more favorable towards Powell than Cheney or Rush.

The issue here is not who is more popular but who is more "Republican".

Yeah, keep venerating ReTHUGlicans who are even more unpopular than the GOP Boogeyman William Ayers, see how that works out for you :laugh:

You missed the point of my post.

The Republicans applauded when Spector, a 30 year veteran Senator, left their party because he was not Republican enough and they blame the "moderates" for their political failure in the last two federal elections.

The GOP are working to make their ideological turf smaller, obviously they do not care about popularity.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat

Originally posted by: Siddhartha

Originally posted by: techs
Just saw the results of a poll flash by on the telly. Shows Americans are more favorable towards Powell than Cheney or Rush.

The issue here is not who is more popular but who is more "Republican".

I think we need to define republican first.

Are we talking about the republicans from 20 years ago?

Or the evangelical neo-cons that lead the party now?

Big difference.

Ronald Reagan forged the modern GOP 30 years ago with the Religious Right, Neo-Con, former Dixiecrat and other Democrats, and the federal government is evil groups.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

A small, ideologically pure party that enforces strict discipline. Where have we seen that before?

A society desperate for change that buys into the celebrity and cult of a charismatic leader...where have we seen that before?

1980 with Ronald Reagan.

 

[Starbuck1975]

You're an idiot. The idiotic right criticizes our president for charisma. Not for charisma and bad policies - for charisma and good policies. Frickin idiots.

:thumbsdown:

 

[Lemon law]

I think Siddharta nailed it when he said, " The GOP are working to make their ideological turf smaller, obviously they do not care about popularity."

But when the popular vote is a measure of democracy, and who is elected and who will not be elected in the next election, caring about popularity is everything for a political party.

The only way the current nihilistic GOP strategy can work is to bet everything on the democrats failing.

But the most comparable period to the present was in the aftermath of the Great depression of 1929, where Hoover was the unlucky smuck who got to inherit eight years of short sighted GOP policies that finally reached critical mass. And even if the democrats under FDR failed to fix it, the voting public seemingly remembered who broke it, and the GOP did not benefit at the polls. Nor did the GOP see the Presidency again for two full decades and a democratic majority persisted in the house, unbroken, for a full 62 years.

Therefore, the GOP is playing a very dangerous game, and stares at extinction, straight in the face.

Worse yet, lost to retirement are many fine GOP moderates like Chafee, Warner, Hagel, DeMedici, and about all the Republicans have left for a role model is help rebuild is Lugar and what I regard as a conservative in McCain. Of course there is still Snowe, all GOP politicians that could contribute to government, from the majority or the minority.

And since Powell still has a lot of bi-partisan support, the GOP would be fools to not learn from Colin Powell.

 

[Paddington]

Colin Powell to me seems to be the worst kind of coward. He was part of an administration that fought wars he now claims to be against. Why didn't he resign in protest at the time, instead of waiting until after the big moves were made? He also didn't have the guts to stick up for his own party, instead going for racial solidarity by backing Obama. In what way is Colin Powell a Republican anyway, and how exactly will the Republicans win elections by being DNC-Lite like Powell wants them to be: supporting affirmative action, abandoning their pro-life plank, supporting wealth redistributionist policies, etc.? If I supported that agenda, which I don't, I'd just as well vote Democrat rather than vote for wanna-be Democrats.

Politics is a game of revolving doors. The Republicans lost an election. Jesus H. Christ, like that's never happened before. They'll be back in 2010 and we'll have a Republican President and/or a Republican Congress sometime within the next decade, if history is to be any guide.

 

[Lemon law]

Muse has a point when he says, "Well, Colin Powell isn't a politician in my mind. He was a career military man, and there's something about military man that suggests that they don't just fade away (regardless of what MacArthur said)."

But I think the point is lost when as soon as we try to compare MacAuthur to Powell.

MacArthur, after a long and distinguished military career, made that self serving fading away remark only after he got his ass fired by Truman, for daring to think he could defy the President of the United States. The Powell mistake is 180 degrees different, Powell too much toadied to GWB and met a different doom.

We have a plethora of retired military officers, face the facts, none have the sheer cred of Colin Powell.,

 

[WildHorse]

/.

 

[gtd2000]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: gtd2000

Of course, I realise all politicians are full of hot air

Not all are.

Oh.. who was that then?

 

[trooper11]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I think Siddharta nailed it when he said, " The GOP are working to make their ideological turf smaller, obviously they do not care about popularity."

But when the popular vote is a measure of democracy, and who is elected and who will not be elected in the next election, caring about popularity is everything for a political party.

The only way the current nihilistic GOP strategy can work is to bet everything on the democrats failing.

See this is one thing I dont get. For the GOP, they do need to decide what views are important to them and what views they are willing to be flexible on. Im a republican and have my own views, and I certainly wouldnt appreciate being lumped together with the failed ideas of our leaders up to this point.

Being popular is of course the goal of any politician, but at some point, someone has to decide what principles are important enough to fight to persuade and educate people as to why you believe said principles. Popularity isnt always a positive thing mind you.

I just dont see how any group, democrats or republicans, can exist unless they have principles that they hold dear and push policies that promote those principles. You want the republicans to change in some way to become more popular, but what does that mean? Do you mean that certain principles need to change or that they just need to adopt 'popular' policies regardless of their principle? Im all for embracing people that want to join party, but I would be a hypocrite if I said I would completely support all of those people joining the party. If your going to have diversity in the leadership of the GOP, then your going to have some internal debate, but that would happen on either side, not just the GOP and that can be a strength. In a national party like democrats or republicans, you cant possibly have everyone agreeing on every policy, but you can certainly get the group to agree on some core principles.

I would pose this question to either group. Would democrats be willing to change their principles in order become popular or would they just work harder at convining people that their principles are the right ones?

All Im saying is that the GOP needs to get its head on straight and realize that we can have moderates in the fold and at the same time promote the principles republicans have believed in for decades. Its all about having the right people to express those principles. We need to stop worrying about moderates, independents, etc and just start talking about why we have the principles we have had for all these years. Talk about where they can improve our lives in the short term and the long term. They need to engage people in debate and not be afraid to stand up to criticism.