Coleco making a new cartridge based console!

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
One of the comments on the article asks "what would this do that I can't do on my PC right now?" It's a valid question. Personally I don't think this will sell at all. Companies can reach larger audiences by using Steam/PSN/XBL to sell their game and it is cheaper. Old titles can be emulated pretty well these days too.

I think this will bomb pretty hard and a lot of it would be based on the graphics capabilities. I had to laugh when they said "It will take gamers and their families back to a simpler time where games were all about great gameplay and fun factor." because as far as I know games not only look better but are still fun.
 
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Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
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Look up "RetroVGS"

Reception of original project concept
The RetroVGS team was the subject of criticism for its reversal on several of its early promises, including its change in crowdfunding venue from Kickstarter to Indiegogo.[citation needed] The entry level price was raised from US$150 as initially suggested to US$350 and up, not inclusive of shipping charges. The FPGA features to allow playing games from classic that were originally promised were revealed as a "stretch goal" pending crowdfunding at the US$3,100,000 level. The RetroVGS team failed to show hardware prototype or design specifications, a requirement for most Kickstarter promotions.[9] The "prototype controller" that has been shown has been revealed to be a third party Wii controller with poor user reviews.[10] The proposed software for the machine was criticized for not being unique enough from digital releases on other platforms to justify a cartridge release at higher prices. The cartridge-only distribution model does not allow for updates (including debugging) or additional content, which led some critics to question the value offered.[1] An AtariAge forum thread provided ongoing feedback on the project in spite of the RetroVGS team's deletion of critical comments on their Facebook page.[11] The RetroVGS team stated that they would grant refunds to all of their IndieGoGo backers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retro_VGS
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
136
Coleco is just a name now. The owner of that name is simply allowing it to be used. It is being used by a group of people who have already shown themselves to be incompetent...repeatedly.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
This is strictly a nostalgia thing. I really doubt it would do too well. You know most people these days aren't going to want it. On the flip side, I can't fault them for trying.

The other news is disappointing so it could simply be an attempt at a cash grab.
 
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CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
LOL! The title of this thread shows that people responded EXACTLY as they'd hoped they would! Boy, we humans are easy to manipulate.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,466
3,067
121
Coleco is just a name now. The owner of that name is simply allowing it to be used. It is being used by a group of people who have already shown themselves to be incompetent...repeatedly.

Didn't they used to make lanterns and propane camping stoves ?

():)
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
One of the comments on the article asks "what would this do that I can't do on my PC right now?" It's a valid question. Personally I don't think this will sell at all. Companies can reach larger audiences by using Steam/PSN/XBL to sell their game and it is cheaper. Old titles can be emulated pretty well these days too.

I think this will bomb pretty hard and a lot of it would be based on the graphics capabilities. I had to laugh when they said "It will take gamers and their families back to a simpler time where games were all about great gameplay and fun factor." because as far as I know games not only look better but are still fun.

It was originally going to use Kevtris' FPGA hardware to play all your old cartridges without emulation, but Kevtris kinda pulled the rug out from under them.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
LOL! The title of this thread shows that people responded EXACTLY as they'd hoped they would! Boy, we humans are easy to manipulate.

Depends on what you mean. I sure wouldn't buy it. I posted it here for the retro fanatics. I'm long past caring about working hardware in a digital emulation world, but it doesn't mean I don't think its cool. Given the posts, it's obvious some cared enough to have looked into it in the past and know whats going on. I just came across the article and didn't dig any further.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
Depends on what you mean. I sure wouldn't buy it. I posted it here for the retro fanatics. I'm long past caring about working hardware in a digital emulation world, but it doesn't mean I don't think its cool. Given the posts, it's obvious some cared enough to have looked into it in the past and know whats going on. I just came across the article and didn't dig any further.

I mean that "Coleco is making a new cartridge based console!" is EXACTLY the reaction they'd hoped the public would have to their rebranding attempt.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
I should start a kickstarter to fund me learning more VHDL so I can make a 2D accelerator for the IBM PC via a 8 bit ISA card.

None exist until Windows and at that point they are 16 bit+ ISA/VLB/PCI and are proprietary, there is no DOS capable VGA card with a hardware blitter and VLB2.0 accelerator functions were never implemented in any known card. Even the earliest Mach 8 and other 8514 based accelerator cards are 640x480 and 1024x768 16 color and would only offer asynchronous hardware VRAM to VRAM copy commands.

So I looked at using a Yamaha VDP V9990 and making my own card But it's pretty crappy too, only 2 layers restricted to 16 colors and 256 x 212. Not even Sega Genesis quality despite having 512k VRAM.

So maybe I'll make my own chip too:

320 x 240 x 16 bpp, 4 layers of 80 x 60 tiles of 8x8 size (4 screens of scrolling) (128 bytes per tile)

256 sprites 8x8 in size sharing the same tile memory.

128k x 16 bit SRAM for 2048 8x8 565 RGB tiles.
32k x 16 SRAM for layer name tables

Support for H/V flip, BG and sprite priority, and vblank and hblank interrupts.

32k-64k sections of the card's RAM specified by user to be mapped at D0000-DFFFF or such to allow linear framebuffer access for level loads, tile animations, etc without conflicting with VGA @ A0000-AFFFF.

It should be relatively simple as a stand alone card (and 100x more complex integrating VGA). The BG layer logic is pretty much just an address generator and some counters. During scan of line n, simultaneously compute the initial pattern table address and pixel pattern address counters from the scroll registers and get it ready, from there it's just incrementing the pixel counter until it his 8 and wraps around to 0, and increments the tile counter. Use SRAM clocked at 28 MHz or so to be able to perform the 4-5 reads per pixel @ 15 khz scan rate. Separate SRAM's for tile data and pattern table can help keep clocks somewhat "era correct" and allow for simultaneously reading BG(x+1)'s name table while also reading BG(x)'s tile using the previously fetched name table value. initial pixel address = (__BGxTILE < 7) + (__BGxSX & 7) < 1 + (__BGxSY & 7) < 4 for tiles stored linearly as 16 bytes of 8 pixel, row 0-7 end to end. With address modifiers to invert and reverse the counters for H/V flip.

All 4 BG layer pixel reads read into a write combiner/merge circuit which has the BG register priority bits or blend operators feeding into it's select/demux inputs to select which pixel gets latched to the CRTC/DAC during scan out.

Sprites would go to a 5th "layer" of the merge/output control.

The sprite logic seems to be the most complex. Not sure if I should use a CAM lookup to get me hits on all sprites on the current scanline or implement a matrix decode method that uses Y value to activate sprites on the same scanline as columns, then X value for the current scan position to select the active sprite/pixel at the merge circuit from the active Y sprites for a row match in increasing X.

I thought about having the merge circuit read only the pixel needed from SRAM to minimize reads but I if I want to do color addition/subtraction, I have to read all 4 BG pixels plus sprite pixel anyway so might as well hard wire to read all layers.

I'd love to see what the original 8088 @ 4.77 Mhz could do with a proper console style pattern table based accelerated graphics chip instead of having to read/write 1 or 4 (VGA latches) pixels at a time over the < 2 MB/sec ISA bus.

Wondering if I could fit this in a Cyclone II...

Anyway.... carry on :p
 
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CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
Well, if DOS emulators could emulate those things so well I'm not sure that was ever the problem. Virtual Gameboy, Nesticle, ZSNES... these were all emulators that ran in real-mode DOS.

Played plenty of native DOS games with smooth scrolling like Earthworm Jim, Tyrian, and more. I do wonder why Amig and X68000 and other platforms all saw the need for acceleration hardware but not DOS on x86.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
Not on a 8088... Tyrian required a Pentium 133 and 16 MB RAM to do something a Genesis could with a 7 Mhz 68000 and 64k VRAM. With a similar VDP with hardware tiles, sprites,and parallax, a 8088 @ 4.77 Mhz would be able to run them.

Those emulators all required Pentiums or at least a 486 to emulate an 8 bit console running at 1Mhz , again because PC has to draw pixels using the CPU alone.

Don't forget DOS doesn't mean 8088 and 640k. Anything on PC even close to resembling 8/16 bit console games at the time even in DOS required 32 bit and 64 bit 486 and Pentium CPUs at 66-100+ MHz with 32 bit VLB and PCI buses and often used DOS protected mode extenders (DOS4GW etc). They did not run in real mode. A NES ROM alone could be 512K to 1MB.

The old stuff needed hardware blitting and sprites because they had 1 MHz 8 bit 6502 and Z80 CPUs not 133 Mhz 64 bit Pentiums.

I want to see an original PC 5150 running something like Sonic 2 @ 320x240 with only the 4.77 Mhz 8088 and a console like VDP instead of the shitty VGA.
 
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