Coin flipping skill?

[DyslexicHobo]

Some friends and I were debating whether or not it is possible to develop the skill of being able to skillfully flip a coin to get the same side close to 100% of the time.

If someone could give a link to a site, or provide any personal evidence of this being possible, it would really help our quarreling.

Thanks for any help!

 

[Tiamat]

i dunno if its because of my lack of trials, but for some reason, I seem to flip heads very much more often than tails. (flip coin into air with thumb, lands in hand, turn coin over onto the back of my other hand).

Obviously if it truly is 50/50 even taking into account the different air drag on both sides due to the different designs, and possible if the mass of metal on one side is different than the other, 50/50 is really more like 100000000 out of 200000000 attempts. Just 50 attempts probably wouldnt yield "proper" statistical results due to low n.

The problem with a "coin" is that it's sides are different. In order for a proper statistical test to occur, you need everything to be controlled. The ambient conditions (wind), the sides of the coin have to be identical, the force applied to the coin - the same.

So "skillfully flip a coin" is probably less to do with actual skill and more to do with the coin's departure from a perfectly uniform disk.


(I was just talking outta my butt)

 

[ruffilb]

Originally posted by: Tiamat
i dunno if its because of my lack of trials, but for some reason, I seem to flip heads very much more often than tails. (flip coin into air with thumb, lands in hand, turn coin over onto the back of my other hand).

Obviously if it truly is 50/50 even taking into account the different air drag on both sides due to the different designs, and possible if the mass of metal on one side is different than the other, 50/50 is really more like 100000000 out of 200000000 attempts. Just 50 attempts probably wouldnt yield "proper" statistical results due to low n.

The problem with a "coin" is that it's sides are different. In order for a proper statistical test to occur, you need everything to be controlled. The ambient conditions (wind), the sides of the coin have to be identical, the force applied to the coin - the same.

So "skillfully flip a coin" is probably less to do with actual skill and more to do with the coin's departure from a perfectly uniform disk.


(I was just talking outta my butt)

Well, it's the law of large numbers... as the number of trials of a certain probability increases, the observed probability will tend towards the theoretical probability.

 

[Fritzo]

Yes, people that catch the coin can do this. This is why you need to let the coin hit the ground.

 

[DyslexicHobo]

But our main point of concern... is it possible for someone to build enough precision to flip (rotations in the air) the coin the exact same amount of times for every attempt? Keep in mind, we are ignoring wind and any other variables.

The question is not what the probobility of either side will be, but whether or not it is possible for someone to be proficient enough at flipping a coin that he can break the 50/50 chance, and get closer to a 100/0 ratio with skill, not luck.

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: DyslexicHobo
But our main point of concern... is it possible for someone to build enough precision to flip (rotations in the air) the coin the exact same amount of times for every attempt? Keep in mind, we are ignoring wind and any other variables.

The question is not what the probobility of either side will be, but whether or not it is possible for someone to be proficient enough at flipping a coin that he can break the 50/50 chance, and get closer to a 100/0 ratio with skill, not luck.

I am thinking no, because of other factors such as hitting the ground. I am sure maybe some people out there have tricks (such as catching it, or maybe only flipping it once or twice), but it is not close to getting the coin to fall on either side on command.

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor

Originally posted by: DyslexicHobo
But our main point of concern... is it possible for someone to build enough precision to flip (rotations in the air) the coin the exact same amount of times for every attempt? Keep in mind, we are ignoring wind and any other variables.

The question is not what the probobility of either side will be, but whether or not it is possible for someone to be proficient enough at flipping a coin that he can break the 50/50 chance, and get closer to a 100/0 ratio with skill, not luck.

I am thinking no, because of other factors such as hitting the ground. I am sure maybe some people out there have tricks (such as catching it, or maybe only flipping it once or twice), but it is not close to getting the coin to fall on either side on command.

Actually, it is possible. There are a few playsers who can do this exact thing with dice in craps. And that is much harder than a single coin.

 

[potato28]

I can make it go slower or faster, but no control over the ouytsome

 

[chuckywang]

Originally posted by: DyslexicHobo
But our main point of concern... is it possible for someone to build enough precision to flip (rotations in the air) the coin the exact same amount of times for every attempt? Keep in mind, we are ignoring wind and any other variables.

The question is not what the probobility of either side will be, but whether or not it is possible for someone to be proficient enough at flipping a coin that he can break the 50/50 chance, and get closer to a 100/0 ratio with skill, not luck.

They say that people who practice dice throwing can throw a 7 with over 70% regularity (great for playing craps).

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: Evadman

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor

Originally posted by: DyslexicHobo
But our main point of concern... is it possible for someone to build enough precision to flip (rotations in the air) the coin the exact same amount of times for every attempt? Keep in mind, we are ignoring wind and any other variables.

The question is not what the probobility of either side will be, but whether or not it is possible for someone to be proficient enough at flipping a coin that he can break the 50/50 chance, and get closer to a 100/0 ratio with skill, not luck.

I am thinking no, because of other factors such as hitting the ground. I am sure maybe some people out there have tricks (such as catching it, or maybe only flipping it once or twice), but it is not close to getting the coin to fall on either side on command.

Actually, it is possible. There are a few playsers who can do this exact thing with dice in craps. And that is much harder than a single coin.

I stand corrected. Man, that must take so much practice. Are there ways for craps dealers to tell and ban them in casions?

 

[DrPizza]

No, you can't control it. (IMHO) Simple test: simply build something to slide a coin off a table consistently. Always start with the coin in the same position; see if it lands heads up/down consistently.

My intuition says to call shens on the dice rollers getting 7's 70% of the time... maybe the way little kids try to roll dice, so that they barely roll, but you wouldn't get away with rolling like that anywhere legitimate.

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
I stand corrected. Man, that must take so much practice. Are there ways for craps dealers to tell and ban them in casions?

It is not illeagal, nor is it cheating just like card counting. However, yes they get escorted out.

 

[SJP0tato]

I stand corrected. Man, that must take so much practice. Are there ways for craps dealers to tell and ban them in casions?

Every Vegas casino requires you to bounce the dice off the sides of the playing table (oddly shaped corrugated pattern) during a roll. Sometimes if you "weak" throw the dice and they don't bounce off they'll let it stay & warn you, but they can and will make you re-roll if you do it more than once, and especially if you're winning because of it.

People that can turn up whatever numbers they want with dice usually are doing it off a flat backboard, or by dropping directly on a felt table.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: SJP0tato

I stand corrected. Man, that must take so much practice. Are there ways for craps dealers to tell and ban them in casions?

Every Vegas casino requires you to bounce the dice off the sides of the playing table (oddly shaped corrugated pattern) during a roll. Sometimes if you "weak" throw the dice and they don't bounce off they'll let it stay & warn you, but they can and will make you re-roll if you do it more than once, and especially if you're winning because of it.

People that can turn up whatever numbers they want with dice usually are doing it off a flat backboard, or by dropping directly on a felt table.

That's what I thought, and no, you are NOT going to be successful 70% of the time, except for brief short runs, as ruled by the laws of probability. I can, however, flip a coin catch it in one hand, and slap it onto the back of the other hand with 100% accuracy. Only a fool would allow someone to catch it in their hand. (it's like reading braille) Then again, some of the new states coins make it harder, so my 100% accuracy would probably slip if I had to do it today.)

 

[Coquito]

They had an episode in that gambling series on the History channel last year with a group of people who learned to roll dice with the exact same hand motion every time. They made alot of money before they were blacklisted.