Cohen flips, states Trump knew of 2016 Trump Tower meeting with Russian intel agents in advance

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trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,939
7,457
136
Push through as much corrupt legislation as possible before their guy gets impeached?

Seems like that's been the game plan for the Repubs from Day 1 of Trump's tenure. They look like they're running a barefoot race on hot asphalt in Death Valley in the middle of July from the way they're piling over themselves to please their wealthy corporate sponsors.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,993
13,519
136

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,757
2,533
126
I can't imagine any rational strategy where Cohen's team would have leaked this.

Rudi G. was all over the channels last night saying Cohen can't be trusted, he's a liar five times over. This looks like the start of the long anticipated major smear campaign of Cohen-which is basically what Giuliani was brought on board for.

Interesting task, trying to establish Cohen is a bigger liar than the champion liar, The Donald.
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,111
926
126
This is one of the greatest examples of, if you do something wrong, you can't trust anyone in your circle. Once Cohen's office was raided and he knew he was facing his near certain demise, he went into survival mode, to pull his own bacon from the fryer. He'll get a light sentence, for his flip, maybe no prison time, just probation. There is no honor among scumbags and thieves. I suspect the relationship between him and Trump, going forward, will be less than cordial. If Cohen had played his cards right, he would have stood a very good chance of being pardoned. Now that he's fucked Trump, he'd better pray that his "flip" worked and he gets off easy. And, BTW, every lawyer, who's office was raided by the feds, went to prison.
 
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TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,090
136
This is one of the greatest examples of, if you do something wrong, you can't trust anyone in your circle. Once Cohen's office was raided and he knew he was facing his near certain demise, he went into survival mode, to pull his own bacon from the fryer. He'll get a light sentence, for his flip, maybe no prison time, just probation. There is no honor among scumbags and thieves. I suspect the relationship between him and Trump, going forward, will be less than cordial. If Cohen had played his cards right, he would have stood a very good chance of being pardoned. Now that he's fucked Trump, he'd better pray that his "flip" worked and he gets off easy. And, BTW, every lawyer, who's office was raided by the feds, went to prison.
It honestly sounds like you're disappointed that Cohen is telling the truth and not "gaming the system" by holding out for a pardon.
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,111
926
126
It honestly sounds like you're disappointed that Cohen is telling the truth and not "gaming the system" by holding out for a pardon.

Actually, I'm looking beyond this issue alone. Any attorney that surreptitiously records a client, without their knowledge, or consent, should be disbarred. That is probably, at a minimum, what will happen to him. I'm not disappointed that Cohen is telling the truth, but I don't consider him any more of an honorable man, than Trump. Since money talks, take a guess who goes to prison and who doesn't. It's like the Clinton effect, in politics. ;)
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,090
136
Actually, I'm looking beyond this issue alone. Any attorney that surreptitiously records a client, without their knowledge, or consent, should be disbarred. That is probably, at a minimum, what will happen to him. I'm not disappointed that Cohen is telling the truth, but I don't consider him any more of an honorable man, than Trump. Since money talks, take a guess who goes to prison and who doesn't. It's like the Clinton effect, in politics. ;)
You sound bitter.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,993
13,519
136
This is one of the greatest examples of, if you do something wrong, you can't trust anyone in your circle. Once Cohen's office was raided and he knew he was facing his near certain demise, he went into survival mode, to pull his own bacon from the fryer. He'll get a light sentence, for his flip, maybe no prison time, just probation. There is no honor among scumbags and thieves. I suspect the relationship between him and Trump, going forward, will be less than cordial. If Cohen had played his cards right, he would have stood a very good chance of being pardoned. Now that he's fucked Trump, he'd better pray that his "flip" worked and he gets off easy. And, BTW, every lawyer, who's office was raided by the feds, went to prison.
Haha.. Cohen needed that pardon yesterday, he even tried smoke signals at got crickets back from Trump. No pardon :). Guess what signal this sends to Manafort? HahahahahahahhaHHHaaa I am loving this. Lib tears of schadenfreuden... heeeee
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,111
926
126
Disappointed in Cohen flipping?

No. Disappointed that ANY attorney would violate a client, by secretly recording their conversations. Take these two actors out of if and ask yourself if that is an ethical practice, by anyone, in a position of trust. It's not. Just because it happened to Trump, doesn't legitimize unethical behavior by the attorney, no matter how much people hate him.

How would you feel, if you had confidential conversations, with your own attorney, and they ended up on CNN, or another news station? Your confidentiality and trust would have been breached.
 
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TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,090
136
No. Disappointed that ANY attorney would violate a client, by secretly recording their conversations. Take these two actors out of if and ask yourself if that is an ethical practice, by anyone, in a position of trust. It's not. Just because it happened to Trump, doesn't legitimize unethical behavior by the attorney, no matter how much people hate him.
This is a bit different than a defence attorney breaking privilege and discussing a guilty client, this is an attorney who was, likely, actively engaged in illegal activities WITH his client. That is NOT the same thing. It sounds like you're stretching things because your guy is getting some heat. This is what it sounds like..
 
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compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,111
926
126
This is a bit different than a defence attorney breaking privilege and discussing a guilty client, this is an attorney who was, likely, actively engaged in illegal activities WITH his client. That is NOT the same thing. It sounds like you're stretching things because your guy is getting some heat. This is what it sounds like..

No. It's an ethics violation between an attorney and his client, period. Always would be, not matter who is involved. You are really thick, if you can't get this basic fact. Your partisanship blinders will not allow you to see that attorneys are in ethical violation, when they do things like this, and are subject to disbarment. I'm not defending Cohen, or Trump. I've discussed this matter with two attorneys in my own family and we're in agreement on this. Cohen gets disbarred.

He's not gonna be a hero to the liberals, because he turned on Trump. He will always be a dishonored, scumbag of an attorney...and disbarred, as well as most likely headed to prison.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,634
50,857
136
No. It's an ethics violation between an attorney and his client, period. Always would be, not matter who is involved. You are really thick, if you can't get this basic fact. Your partisanship blinders will not allow you to see that attorneys are in ethical violation, when they do things like this, and are subject to disbarment. I'm not defending Cohen, or Trump. I've discussed this matter with two attorneys in my own family and we're in agreement on this. Cohen gets disbarred.

I think Cohen was getting disbarred either way, haha. It’s not like he’s acted ethically about anything else so it seems a bit hard to expect him to start now. Still I agree, lawyers taping their clients and releasing it is insane.

That being said, it’s also not a privileged conversation if your client is engaging in criminal activity. Depending on what the plan was to finance that payment - ie: if it’s the same way the Stormy payment was handled, then Trump was engaging in a criminal conspiracy to commit bank fraud and violate various other election finance laws. Those are very, very serious crimes.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,090
136
No. It's an ethics violation between an attorney and his client, period. Always would be, not matter who is involved. You are really thick, if you can't get this basic fact. Your partisanship blinders will not allow you to see that attorneys are in ethical violation, when they do things like this, and are subject to disbarment. I'm not defending Cohen, or Trump. I've discussed this matter with two attorneys in my own family and we're in agreement on this. Cohen gets disbarred.

He's not gonna be a hero to the liberals, because he turned on Trump. He will always be a dishonored, scumbag of an attorney...and disbarred, as well as most likely headed to prison.
You're calling someone thick? Throwing stones of partisan blinders? That's rich. Certainly Cohen should be disbarred, for DOING ILLEGAL THINGS with his client. I'm sure I've spoken to just as many "lawyer relations" as you have, so let's leave anecdotes out of this.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
I think Cohen was getting disbarred either way, haha. It’s not like he’s acted ethically about anything else so it seems a bit hard to expect him to start now. Still I agree, lawyers taping their clients and releasing it is insane.

That being said, it’s also not a privileged conversation if your client is engaging in criminal activity. Depending on what the plan was to finance that payment - ie: if it’s the same way the Stormy payment was handled, then Trump was engaging in a criminal conspiracy to commit bank fraud and violate various other election finance laws. Those are very, very serious crimes.
Depending on the state aren't you obligated to tell the other party they are being recorded anyway? And if it's new York, my guess would be that it's a 2 party state?
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,111
926
126
You're calling someone thick? Throwing stones of partisan blinders? That's rich. Certainly Cohen should be disbarred, for DOING ILLEGAL THINGS with his client. I'm sure I've spoken to just as many "lawyer relations" as you have, so let's leave anecdotes out of this.

Well, I didn't think you got it. One scumbag turning on another scumbag, doesn't make either one of them less of a scumbag. My apologies, if we were not communicating, so each of us could understand each other's point. Sorry for calling you thick.
 
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interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
No. Disappointed that ANY attorney would violate a client, by secretly recording their conversations. Take these two actors out of if and ask yourself if that is an ethical practice, by anyone, in a position of trust. It's not. Just because it happened to Trump, doesn't legitimize unethical behavior by the attorney, no matter how much people hate him.

How would you feel, if you had confidential conversations, with your own attorney, and they ended up on CNN, or another news station? Your confidentiality and trust would have been breached.

Michael Cohen has been described as Trump's fixer. He regularly engaged in activity with Trump that was either not as his legal representative, illegal, or both. This is why very little of what was seized has been determined to be privileged. His valid work as Trump's lawyer is of no value to the Mueller probe because it is privileged. If Trump's legal team had any valid argument that Cohen's offer here constituted privileged information, they would not have leaked this information in attempt to smear him. We are not here discussing Michael Cohen, attorney at law. We are here discussing Michael Cohen, co-conspirator. Your concern is gravely misplaced.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,090
136
Well, I didn't think you got it. One scumbag turning on another scumbag, doesn't make either one of them less of a scumbag. My apologies, if we were not communicating, so each of us could understand each other's point. Sorry for calling you thick.

I appreciate that, truly. Nice to see civility from time to time on this forum. I don't disagree with your basic point on attorney client privilege, of course that is incredibly important to the judicial process. I'm simply asserting, less eloquently, what eksi is saying, that this is not privileged conversation if the lawyer is actively committing or conspiring to commit a crime and isn't quite as sacrosanct.