CoD “has almost ruined a generation of shooter players,” Tripwire Interactive

[Lonbjerg]

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/13/call-of-duty-red-orchestra-2-interview/

I think they’re finally coming out from under the shadow of the Hollywood movie, overblown “I’m on a rail” linear shooter. I’m talking about Call of Duty-style shooters.

And really, watching some of these guys play… one of the things that Call of Duty does, and it’s smart business, to a degree, is they compress the skill gap. And the way you compress the skill gap as a designer is you add a whole bunch of randomness. A whole bunch of weaponry that doesn’t require any skill to get kills. Random spawns, massive cone fire on your weapons. Lots of devices that can get kills with zero skill at all, and you know, it’s kind of smart to compress your skill gap to a degree. You don’t want the elite players to destroy the new players so bad that new players can never get into the game and enjoy it. I’m looking at you, Dota. [laughs] Sorry.

But the skill gap is so compressed, that it’s like a slot machine. You might as well just sit down at a slot machine and have a thing that pops up an says “I got a kill!” They’ve taken individual skill out of the equation so much. So you see these guys—I see it all the time, they come in to play Red Orchestra, and they’re like “This game’s just too hardcore. I’m awesome at Call of Duty, so there’s something wrong with your game. Because I’m not successful at playing this game, so it must suck. I’m not the problem, it’s your game.” And sometimes as designers, it is our game. Sometimes we screw up, sometimes we design something that’s not accesible enough, they can’t figure it out, we didn’t give them enough information to figure out where to go… but more often than not, it’s because Call of Duty compressed their skill gap so much that these guys never needed to get good at a shooter. They never needed to get good at their twitch skills with a mouse

He is so fucking right.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Whats odd is I completely suck at CoD style games. I was fricken awesome on older games.

 

[mindcycle]

But the skill gap is so compressed, that it’s like a slot machine. You might as well just sit down at a slot machine and have a thing that pops up an says “I got a kill!” They’ve taken individual skill out of the equation so much. So you see these guys—I see it all the time, they come in to play Red Orchestra, and they’re like “This game’s just too hardcore. I’m awesome at Call of Duty, so there’s something wrong with your game. Because I’m not successful at playing this game, so it must suck. I’m not the problem, it’s your game.” And sometimes as designers, it is our game. Sometimes we screw up, sometimes we design something that’s not accesible enough, they can’t figure it out, we didn’t give them enough information to figure out where to go… but more often than not, it’s because Call of Duty compressed their skill gap so much that these guys never needed to get good at a shooter. They never needed to get good at their twitch skills with a mouse

This is exactly why I don't play COD, it truly does require little to no skill. IMO, playing multiplayer COD is just about as difficult as using a fork and knife to eat a steak. The first time you ever do it there's a slight learning curve, but after about 5 minutes you've pretty much got it.

 

[Jodell88]

I want a FPS without regenerative health.

 

[Agent11]

It's called counter-strike... It has perma death and objectives too.

 

[CPA]

I want a FPS without regenerative health.

Serious Sam.

 

[coldmeat]

Serious Sam.

TF2

 

[CrackRabbit]

TF2

TF2 was great until Valve decided it was going to be their microtransaction experiment grounds. Superb balance was ruined by the promo-weapon of the week.
I still love them as a company but TF2 isn't fun anymore because of the meddling.

 

[chalmers]

TF2

Health packs everywhere as well as weapons that can generate health. Not to mention a medic class. Not the same.

 

[chalmers]

TF2 was great until Valve decided it was going to be their microtransaction experiment grounds. Superb balance was ruined by the promo-weapon of the week.
I still love them as a company but TF2 isn't fun anymore because of the meddling.

I still play TF2 all the time and I have not once noticed some super overpowered weapon that ruined my games. What am I missing?

 

[thm1223]

I still play TF2 all the time and I have not once noticed some super overpowered weapon that ruined my games. What am I missing?

Did you play it before the hats started coming into the game?

 

[Craig234]

There are different types of shooters each of which is valid for different tastes.

 

[chalmers]

Did you play it before the hats started coming into the game?

Started playing in 2007.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Started playing in 2007.

Think back to about the Heavy update then.
Gimmicky weapons were minimal, the alternate weapons that were available were great and for the most part kept the balance of the following: Classes had a role, reason and counter.
Now fast forward to just after 'The War' update. New weapons that were being added constantly for game promos that made little sense, and disrupted the balance of role, reason and counter. Think about things like

 

[Anteaus]

I don't play COD because starting with MW1 they all were exactly the same except with different textures/plot. Sure there was a lil experimentation with level design, but they rarely strayed from the formula. I'm only talking about the single player though. I didn't play much multiplayer so I'm not a good judge of it.

Battlefield has always been my team based FPS of choice for multiplayer but even that series has degenerated a bit. BF1942+Desert Combat and BF2 were the peak and it seems every release since has been derivative and increasingly inhibited by the COD formula.

 

[stag3]

the only cod i liked was mw1, they had it almost perfect there, i felt CS should have went that way instead of source

 

[darkswordsman17]

I don't have an issue with the lack of skill, I actually often enjoy games like that more because you can get hectic matches more often which I enjoy. I personally find CoD boring, the base gameplay just puts me to sleep for some reason.

Hmm, oh this is the developer of Killing Floor? That's the only FPS in recent history that I immediately hated even worse than CoD. There's a lot of elements that go into making a great game, while they might have valid points about CoD, I'm not convinced that they themselves know how to get the base gameplay where I would enjoy it.

There isn't an FPS right now that really "hooks" me and makes me want to keep playing, and maybe CoD is to blame for that (with the experience system that's taken over so many FPSes I might would agree). There's quite a few that are enjoyable but none that I just want to keep playing over and over like in the past. Its possible that its me, but I don't think so as I can play some older ones and want to keep playing (especially multiplayer).

 

[chalmers]

Think back to about the Heavy update then.
Gimmicky weapons were minimal, the alternate weapons that were available were great and for the most part kept the balance of the following: Classes had a role, reason and counter.
Now fast forward to just after 'The War' update. New weapons that were being added constantly for game promos that made little sense, and disrupted the balance of role, reason and counter. Think about things like

like....what? Every server I play on, this is what I normally see:

Demo: Pipe/Sword or Pipe/Sticky...ohnoes the unbalancing
Medic: default medigun + syringe gun...ohnoes the unbalancing
Scout: scattergun/shortstop + sandman...ohnoes the unbalancing
Solders: default launcher/black box/liberty/shotgun...who cares?
Pyro: phlog/flare or backburner/flare...who cares?
Heavy: minigun/sandvich or minigun/shotgun....
Engineer: frontier justice/gunslinger on offense, shotgun/pistol on defense
Sniper: Huntsman/default sniper/machima...whatever doesn't affect balance
Spy: Enforcer/spycicle or Enforcer/whatever other gun

I'm not sure what has destroyed the game so bad that people love to constantly bitch about it. I play quite a lot and not once have I raged or been mad because of some weapon has ruined the game. I wouldn't play if that were the case. Do I think the hats and the trading obsessed weirdos are dumb? Yup, but it doesn't affect my game.

 

[thm1223]

The sad thing is I remember when the original Call of Duty came out on the PC it was a really good single player game. Now the franchise is trash.

 

[Chaotic42]

The only CoD game I liked was MW2. I only played the multiplayer, but the movement and the weapons just felt right. Add to that the random groupings, and it was fun (aside from the horrible lag half of the time). I've spent way too many hours playing hardcore search and destroy.

I didn't like MW1 or BlackOps. I guess MW2 was the right game at the right time for me.

 

[georgec84]

"Almost"?

 

[Stringjam]

I can see what he's getting at regarding skill level, but if I were a developer, my goal wouldn't be to impress the masses. That group is always going to reach for whatever is the most accessible. The enthusiasts are always a smaller group, and if that is what you're developing for, than stop worrying about what everybody else thinks.

 

[chalmers]

I can see what he's getting at regarding skill level, but if I were a developer, my goal wouldn't be to impress the masses. That group is always going to reach for whatever is the most accessible. The enthusiasts are always a smaller group, and if that is what you're developing for, than stop worrying about what everybody else thinks.

Counterstrike used to be the top played game for years, and the skill level of their top players dwarfs Call of Duty.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

I'm not sure what has destroyed the game so bad that people love to constantly bitch about it. I play quite a lot and not once have I raged or been mad because of some weapon has ruined the game. I wouldn't play if that were the case. Do I think the hats and the trading obsessed weirdos are dumb? Yup, but it doesn't affect my game.

You can't seriously tell me that the f*cking wrangler and new spy sapper are alright?

 

[DeadFred]

I agree CoD has gotten ridiculous with the randomness and noob friendly killstreaks, its why Ive given up on the series. But its not like there arent any other choices out there. We have everything from the ultra-hyper COD series to the snoozefest ARMA series, personally I prefer something in between. My choice is BF3, but feel free to disparage it also.