CNN reports on debate lies

[Tripleshot]

etech

My friend, If our jousting sends out primal urges such as was displayed by Crimson a few moments ago,It does not serve the membership well,at all.

Enough of the grandstanding. You have your opinion and some backers here,and I have my opinion and some backers here,But calling out Red was not what I think any of us suspected was going to happen.

I do not answer your qustion because I do not subscribe to the communist manefisto or what ever. I'm sure you realize I am as much a proud american as you or Dan or Russ or anyone else. Truth is we are all closer on issues than this banterring about reveals. I am an independant an closer to libertarian than any party.I also have agreed to the premise of removing the electoral college. It is past its time.

I don't think you are seeing black helicopters and I'm sure you don't live in a bus buried underground.

If people see this jabbing and react this way, I will cool my commentary and seek another method of jousting that may not be so obvious. Maybe I can learn from Russ,the master.

Peace. Have a good night.

 

[etech]

Tripleshot, I do not really think our little joust had anything to do with Crimsons rant. In fact I agree with Crimson, though perhaps not with his methods.

But I must get to work and will have to continue this tonight.

 

[Double Trouble]

By the way, did it bother anyone else that both candidates, regardless of the question or topic at hand did nothing more than talk about how much money they were gonna spend on this or that? "Im gonna spend 10 Billion on this plan" , "I'm gonna spend 1 Billion on millitary".

It was made painfully obvious that regardless of who wins this, the government is gonna get a heck of a lot bigger, and we're gonna end up footing the bill by paying even more.

I've heard politicians yap about tax cuts in different countries (it's not just a US disease) for many many years, and I have yet to see one single instance where the total rate of taxation (meaning the total amount you pay out in fees, income taxes, sales taxes, estate taxes, permits etc etc) actually went DOWN. When these guys talk about a 'tax cut', they mean a reduction in the amount of a tax increase you're likely to get.

As far as the debates went, what was up with Gore acting like a petulent child with his little noises every time Bush said something? If I'd behaved like that when I was little I'd get a wack on my butt from my father.

 

[sandorski]

LOL! This thread is truly amusing.

Here's a question for you guys: Which candidates platform most closely resembles Adolf's Mein Kampf?

The US needs a real political revolution. The Dems/Reps are nothing more than players in a dog and pony show giving the political process a facade of democratic process. If Americans want good government, they should throw those 2 political parties into the dustbin of history by voting for third parties.

 

[nickdakick]

Just trying to add a little international insight here, social market economy actually works in Germany(90% helthcare, unemployment insurance, retirement pay insurance a.s.o.)and AFAIK the percentage of taxes deducted from my income is NOT higher than in the US.


OOHHH I forgot this one: NO GENERAL SPEEDLIMIT !

 

[Double Trouble]

Hey Nick, having lived in the Netherlands (which has a system very similar to Germany's), I can tell you that you most definitely do have more of your income taken from you in one form or another. The Dutch BTW tax (sorta like a sales tax on steroids) is an example of how you're taxed to fund for all the socialist handouts without having it called 'taxation'.

 

[3615buck]

Nickdakick, Ok, there is no no speed limit on motorways in Germany... unless an old Lada overtakes an even older Trabant ! Then I hope you have good brakes

Concerning taxes, I think we pay more than anybody else, so do not complain

tagej, BTW in the Netherlands is simply the VAT

 

[nickdakick]

Buck: Haven't seen an Trabant or old Lada for more than a year, maybe I'm too fast passing by. And, yes I do have good brakes, don't worry. Thanks for the concern anyway. DId I complain ? I don't think so. I'm actually pretty fine with everything.

tagej: I only wanted to point out that this system can work, not as previuosly stated numerous times it wont. We do have a growing ecenomy(US citizens buying German cars and Infineon RAM, thx ), unemployment is decreasing.

 

[DABANSHEE]

Actually Etech, in communist countries no one pays tax as everyone is employed by the govt anyway. That's why Russia had so much trouble raising money once they privatised everything as there were buggerall tax laws on the books. Hence about 90% of all of Russia's tax legislation has only been arround for about 7 years or less.

" (boast, boast)....I'm a former Special Forces soldier...........(wank, wank)",

BTW Glen, just because you say you were a 'special forces soldier' doesnt mean yoiu actually were a 'special forces soldier'. Just like we have people on the board boasting about their Mustang Cobra's & their Porsches & how the knee-caped perps & how they are wanted porn kings doesnt mean its so. I take all these boasts like yours with the grain of salt they deserve.

wank, wank, wank

Did you know that in Australia & also the UK 'Special Forces Soldiers' are not allowed to admitt to being a 'special Forces soldier', its an official secret, they arnt even allowed to admitt they were a 'special forces soldier', even once they leave the forces. Dare I say, its probably exactly the same in the US, unless they left the forces more than 20 or something years ago.

"Hey Nick, having lived in the Netherlands (which has a system very similar to Germany's), I can tell you that you most definitely do have more of your income taken from you in one form or another. The Dutch BTW tax (sorta like a sales tax on steroids) is an example of how you're taxed to fund for all the socialist handouts without having it called 'taxation'."

But Tagej that's the way they like it, Europeans love not having to worry about things & having free cradle to grave healthcare & free cradle to grave education & good subsidised public transport & 6 weeks annual leave, plus plenty of sickies & long service leave & easy retirement living. Gez, even people on the dole (welfare for the unemployed) in Western Europe get nearly double what Americans get on the minimum wage (well except for Ireland & the UK). It's the same In Australia, if they tried to change it, there'd be a massacre of politicians.

 

[nickdakick]

What sandorski said too.
The US system has developed in this way for a long time, it will not be easy to change it.

 

[jjm]

I was wrong about the intelligence level of people on this board.

It is just comical to read the attempts to compare the plans of one candidate or another to communist ideals. What a crock!

 

[Tripleshot]

jjm

My sentiments exactly. but watch out. If you don't answer the questions,your a commie like me.

Hes on a quest to achieve some kind of status here I guess. Rather pathetic IMHO.

He certainly doesn't seem to want to take my offer of peace.

Old sales axium,"If you can't dazzle them with brilliancy,baffle them with bullsh!t!"

I have found the right wing elements here find that offensive.

Can't imagine why.

 

[chess9]

Dabanshee:

Yeah, Glenn was bragging a bit, but that's ok.

It's also legal for him to say he was in the Special Forces.

But one thing I can tell you, Glenn wouldn't be standing idly by if some complete stranger came to the door and called him a commie. My experience has been that most conservatives would be disinclined to treat etech favorably if he used such trash talk to them. Having been raised in the '50s and having served in the Marines during a war, I'm not about to have that creep get away with calling me a commie.

Etech turned the debate to communism for the sole purpose of defaming people who don't agree with him on the tax issue. But Glenn didn't get paid by his father when he was in the military. We paid the bill, and gladly. That's Socialism at work. Most Americans undestand that pure capitalism will not work because we need firemen, policemen, soldiers, teachers, etc. No one stands alone, and that was my point. The machismo is coming from the radical right wing and their related tax protestor cousins, most of whom are and should be in federal prison for not paying their taxes. And the irony is that few of the right wing could really stand alone anyway. Even assuming they were as fit as Glenn alleges he was, they couldn't stand alone. That is the essence of this debate. Many right wingers have this idealized sense of their independence and freedom from the common strictures of social order. It is sheer illusion. Also, I've seen a lot of these fat, smoking, potato chip munching right wingers who can barely get their butts to the car from the elevator in their air conditioned buildings. Glenn is hardly the norm. Just look around at the large number of obese people in America. Something like 40% of Americans are obese. So the right wing posturing of pencil necked geeks like etech is truly laughable. They deserve our scorn and derision.

I've got to leave for my 10 mile run.

 

[JoeBaD]

I remember an old joke. Kinda goes like this:

If a man is drowning 100 ft. off shore, a conservative would throw him 50 ft. of rope and expect him to swim the rest of the way. A liberal would throw him 200 ft. and let go of the end.

 

[Tripleshot]

Red Dawn,
I don't think so,but it was inflammatory to the max. Did you do a search?

 

[DABANSHEE]

"It's also legal for him to say he was in the Special Forces."

That's my point, here in Australia anyone can legally go arround & say they are or were in the SAS, except for people who actually are or were in the SAS as they sign an agreement (official secrets act) agreeing to never divulge such information until they have retired for so many years. Until that time they have to quote their cover army job, for example Air despatch Regiment. As where ever the SAS works there are always Army helicoptor squadrons working out of the same base. This is also the reason why the television footage of that recent SAS funeral was always filmed from behind or in siluete as its illegal to show their faces.

 

[glenn1]

Dabanshee.... dear sir, i think you miss the point. Whether or not you believe what i tell you of my past is immaterial, and doesn't matter to the point that i was trying to get across. The only reason i brought it up in fact was to debunk the idea that we should all be able to march 100 miles in 5 hours, or whatever the assertion was. As far as i'm concerned, you can believe what you like about me personally, it doesn't affect my argument or my pride one bit.

And besides, if i were trying to impress you all with my military background, which i wasn't, why would i claim to be a gun bunny? Wouldn't a pilot or something be a lot more impressive? Last check, most folks don't get all that impressed when you tell them, "yeah, my job was mostly lugging around about 130 pounds of crap on missions, trying to avoid enemy contact (well, on most missions anyway, which were primarily surveillance), and hoping the radios would cooperate with me?" Face it, a glorified pack mule doesn't impress many folks, no matter what job title you give the mule.

Being in the Special Forces doesn't make you stronger or able to walk any faster, it's simply a job title, albeit one hard to earn (and thus, i suppose, making hardheads like me desire the position that much more... simplest way to find folks to volunteer for something in the military is to call it "elite&quot. There's probably dozens on this board that could beat me in any or even most physical challenges, and to be honest, i don't really care. I never claimed to be an ultimate physical specimen, heck, even when i was in the military, physical training was a challenge for me. Even when i was still on a team, i have no doubt that those more physically inclined could have and would have outshone me. Especially now, since i have not pushed myself to maintain whatever level of fitness i did possess, i doubt that a lot of things i could do then i could now anyway. And besides, that's totally beside the point of the conversation.

Indeed, i think you miss the entire point of what i posted - that what matters is not physical fitness, or strength, or anything else when it comes to matters of capitalism or tax policy.

My point was that all that is immaterial. If someone is out there working, being an entrepreneur, creating wealth and value for himself, the economy, and society, then it really doesn't matter what his physical attributes are. Capitalism and a modern economy have allowed us to move beyond only valuing someone for what their muscles can produce on a farm, or in goods. Although he's not a true "fat-ass," and love him or hate him, Bill Gates has produced and will continue to produce more value to the economy than i could ever hope to do.

So i spent some time in the military, big deal. I'm more proud of the folks, lard-assed or not, who were out there every day busting their ass, doing what they do best to help make America work who are the true heroes. They are the one who pay the taxes, shoulder the load, and allow those of us who were in the military the luxury of getting paid to play with guns, live out in the woods (or desert, in my case) for weeks on end, jump from planes, blow stuff up, and generally do things we'd get arrested for out in the world.

Having been in the military myself, i certainly appreciate anyone who served their country. But i am truly proud of those who were out there, chasing down their own American dream, and have achieved some degree of success in doing so. They are the ones who help make America great, and do not deserve the petty pandering of an Al Gore demonizing and desparaging them as the "wealthiest one percent." As if that were an insult, that someone achieved great things by their efforts, and deserve to have the fruits of their labor taken from them, owing to their success.

And BTW, if someone came to me, and accused me of being a communist, i doubt i would be offended. I would probably laugh my ass off. And i'd probably tell him/her in no uncertain terms that they were stupid for thinking so. I have absolutely no problem telling anyone what i think, and that has nothing to do with my background or anything else. That is simply my personality.

 

[nickdakick]

DABANSHEE: Yes that's the way at least I like it. Not having to worry if I can afford good education for my children. If I can afford getting diseases treated. If I can afford to retire at 65. If I can afford calling in sick WHEN I'm sick. Anything wrong with that ?
What i don't like are ppl that are generalizing. You can be self-employed and take the risks. It's a matter of choice.

 

[nickdakick]

Posto doble

 

[etech]

tagej, good point about the increases in spending by both candidates. That is one of the things that concern me about the direction we are headed in. It is a major threat to a welfare type government that is also a representative government. To get elected the candidates have to promise something to the voters. After they are elected and the program is passed the next election comes along. Then you have the next round of promises and more spending. It's a never ending cycle that leads to the complete dependence of the people on the government. It is called the welfare state

 

[DABANSHEE]

Look Glen, I don't know whether you were in the 'Special Forces' or not, you very well could be, afterall you arn't one of the people who are knowen to keep boasting about things on this board. Also maybe there are different grades of 'Special Forces' in the a military as big as the US's, with only the ones in Delta Force having to keep their identies secret, I don't know, Or maybe its just a SAS thing. Anyway my post was more a reaction to all the porsche & Ferrari owners on the thread & to the bloke who always goes on about how he owns a Desert Eagle, in every second gun thread, & there's that other bloke who said he was a porn king & was posting pictures of his models, which turned out came from a usenet binaries site or something & then said that the father of one of his models pulled out a gun to kill him.

 

[glenn1]

Dabanshee.... don't sweat it mate. It's quite fair and reasonable to question someone speaking of their background, since it's really quite impossible to verify someone on the web. I guess what i would request of you though, is to keep in mind that even if someone were to lie about that, to still consider the point they are trying to make. I could have said i was the Pope, that doesn't necessarily mean that the assertion i tried to make in the post is incorrect. Just remember they are two seperate issues sometimes

 

[nickdakick]

OK, now this is settled can we move to on topic in off topic ?