CNN Money: Microsoft's next big headache: The Google Chromebook

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Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
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What will make it sluggish? Core 2 Duos handle the job fine. Not handled, but present tense, handle. For that matter, Athlon64 X2s handle Windows 7 just fine, today, too. Are not Haswell Celerons comparable?

A C2D and A62X2 will handle Win7 fine, no doubt. But will they do it at 8W, or 3W in the case of the Exynos 5 Octa? While maintaining a super thin profile machine with an 8hr+ battery life at a sub-250 dollar cost? Doubtful. I don't think the Haswell Celeron 2955U is as fast as a C2D or X2, but it is a 15W sku. Windows 7 on the 2955U would be marginally acceptable, but only barely. And only on the 4GB models, which raises the price. W7 on the ARM based CBs would be outright impossible, leaving Windows RT as the option. And WRT has less app and developer support than any other platform.

Second, Microsoft doesn't to continue selling W7 licenses. They want to push W8, which the public hates. There's W7 Starter . . . but its been castrated to the point of uselessness. Not sure if there's any truth the rumors of MS slashing the costs of W8 licenses by 70% to move them or if the 'Win8 with Bing for free' to compete with the Chromebooks are true though.
 
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I wouldn't buy a Chromebook to replace my full-blown lightweight notebook/laptop, but to replace a tablet? Yeah, I can see that.

We're gradually finding out what use cases we fit into - Tablet if you just need to look things up, netbook/Chromebook if you have some very light note taking to do while on the move, notebook/laptop if you have work to do and a desk to work at, and desktop if you need a serious system.

I'm all up for choices.
 

Imaginer

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
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A C2D and A62X2 will handle Win7 fine, no doubt. But will they do it at 8W, or 3W in the case of the Exynos 5 Octa?

You are comparing old hardware with levied expectations of newer released hardware. Chips and platforms that are well over 5 years old. Of course they can't have the full spectrum of states as compared to newer Core processors.

A similar, but rather asinine argument is expecting a past florescent bulb with it's built in ballast to be just as energy efficient with a newer fluorescent bulb with a newer ballast - or even a incandescent bulb.

but it is a 15W sku.

Just because it is listed at 15W, doesn't mean it will always max out every operating session. The chips have that much processing headroom for applications that need it, but can throttle down as much as needed to gain the battery times - depending on the tasks.

Certainly, it is like using your own legs to mountain bike up a hill with a no gear bike and a geared bike. Or better yet, trying to traverse mountain roads, carrying a load for a family trip, using a Beetle when it is the only thing you bought at the time - but realizing that the intended time line should have foreseen this use.

Obviously, if you do not foresee needing the headroom, one has more options as I mentioned. BUT I also mentioned before, there are limits.

Second, Microsoft doesn't to continue selling W7 licenses. They want to push W8, which the public hates

Just simply saying this, doesn't mean anything. It is like saying the sky is red (which at times can be the case) but it never would be something that is always there (unless you are inherent of wanting to keep the bias going). You can pretty much place in things like this...

Second, Google doesn't to continue keep existing comment systems. They want to push Google+, which some* people hate

It is almost as if you want a browsing user to continue the pervasive group think process through just by re-iterating this, when in actual practice - and I mentioned before - it was never a fashion contest and usage cases vary greatly - which I mentioned time and time again.

Not shipping out new software for favoring a latest shipping version - is nothing new amongst any software maker. With that mindset, I am expecting that Windows 3.11 would still be shipping to the shelves. Things get phased out, 7 had a good expected run on retail shelves, much like XP did before.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
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A C2D and A62X2 will handle Win7 fine, no doubt. (...) I don't think the Haswell Celeron 2955U is as fast as a C2D or X2, but it is a 15W sku.
What wattage they run at has nothing to do with feeling fast or sluggish. Processor, memory, and graphics performance do (also storage, but that's upgradable in all of them).

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Celeron-2955U-Notebook-Processor.98845.0.html
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=2073&cmp[]=997

Right in line with old C2Ds, it looks like.
But will they do it at 8W, or 3W in the case of the Exynos 5 Octa?
You mean a Celeron? Because Windows can run on Chromebooks with those, but not the ARM ones. ARM is N/A for real Windows.

Second, Microsoft doesn't to continue selling W7 licenses.
That doesn't mean you can't install and activate legit licenses. You can still buy them, too. It would bring the cost up close to real notebooks, though, so wouldn't make sense unless you had access to cheap/free/purchased licenses...but OTOH, lots of us do.
 
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Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
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What most tech reporters don't bother to explain is that NPD clearly says its measurement base is what it calls "US commercial channels." I emailed an NPD representative to ask exactly what this means, and was told that it's comprised of "US B2B sales using distribution partners."

That, my friends, is not exactly the global notebook market, or even the US one for that matter.

Interestingly enough, in its opening sentence, NPD noted that it had tracked sales of 14.4 million desktops, notebooks, and tablets through US commercial channels.

That's a very small piece of the overall PC and tablet pie.

There were 16.1 million US PC sales in Q3 alone, according to Gartner. US tablet sales data is not easy to come by, but you get the point -- this is not a comprehensive data set. But it is clearly labeled for what it is, and thus a lot of the headlines you're seeing are completely out of whack.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2013/12/31/google-chromebook-sales/4262961/
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
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You are comparing old hardware with levied expectations of newer released hardware. Chips and platforms that are well over 5 years old. Of course they can't have the full spectrum of states as compared to newer Core processors.

A similar, but rather asinine argument is expecting a past florescent bulb with it's built in ballast to be just as energy efficient with a newer fluorescent bulb with a newer ballast - or even a incandescent bulb.

I only mentioned the older C2D & X2s because they were brought up as valid CPUs to power a netbook class device, and they're simply note.


What wattage they run at has nothing to do with feeling fast or sluggish. Processor, memory, and graphics performance do (also storage, but that's upgradable in all of them).

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Celeron-2955U-Notebook-Processor.98845.0.html
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=2073&cmp[]=997

I know full well that the wattage a CPU uses doesn't correspond to its speed, I was quite clearly referring to its power usage previously. Chromebooks are built around cheap, power sipping CPUs and an extremely lightweight OS. Windows on my A6 1450 is slow, ChromeOS on my A6 1450 would run without a problem for example.

Right in line with old C2Ds, it looks like.
You mean a Celeron? Because Windows can run on Chromebooks with those, but not the ARM ones. ARM is N/A for real Windows.

I brought up the Exynos 5 Octas as they drive Samsung's Chromebooks, among some others, and have half the TDP as the Haswell Celeron. Until Windows RT gets more developer attention, its not really an option. Chrome OS will run the same chrome apps just fine whether its an ARM based CB or an x86 basd one.

That doesn't mean you can't install and activate legit licenses. You can still buy them, too. It would bring the cost up close to real notebooks, though, so wouldn't make sense unless you had access to cheap/free/purchased licenses...but OTOH, lots of us do.

True, you can activate legit licenses. Few things to keep in mind, 1) Those Windows 7 licenses being sold right now are ones that retails stockpiled before MS stopped selling them. 2) Would Microsoft allow an OEM to put a full W7 Home Premium license onto a CB-like device? They've been very restrictive in this regard in the past, though competition does seem to have forced them to be more open.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
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I know full well that the wattage a CPU uses doesn't correspond to its speed, I was quite clearly referring to its power usage previously. Chromebooks are built around cheap, power sipping CPUs and an extremely lightweight OS. Windows on my A6 1450 is slow, ChromeOS on my A6 1450 would run without a problem for example.
An A6-1450 is much slower than the new Celerons, and old C2Ds, and just competes with Athlon64 era CPUs, in single-threaded work (it does have 4 cores, though). If Intel weren't basically giving away these new Celerons, I'm sure those AMDs would be our main options, and I wouldn't have any particular problems having one...except that there's no need, when Intel's CPUs are available in similar-cost machines.

Chrome OS will run the same chrome apps just fine whether its an ARM based CB or an x86 basd one.
Windows [7] won't, though.

The goalpost was performance running Windows 7 (though I also see no reason why such a device wouldn't be a good fit for 8), in response to allegedly being slow and sluggish. I can't say yet, for myself (I'm going to void the warranty ASAP anyway, so I'm bidding on used ones :)), but what testing I can find points to the Haswell Celerons being comparable with mobile C2Ds, which are plenty for most light use, with inferior older Intel IGP, and HDDs. So, if those C2Ds are still fast enough, why would a new CPU that's about the same speed not be?

I'm not arguing that old stuff hasn't been superseded. To get similar battery life would have cost $1500-3000 in the Core 2 era (ULV C2Ds in small business notebooks, like from Fujitsu), and you'd have a thicker machine, with a worse display, typically a smaller display and keyboard, and bigger battery packs. The CPU choices probably wouldn't have exceeded about 1.5GHz, either.

2) Would Microsoft allow an OEM to put a full W7 Home Premium license onto a CB-like device? They've been very restrictive in this regard in the past, though competition does seem to have forced them to be more open.
No, that would be for users to do. I must say I am surprised some OEMs haven't put full Linux distros on, though.
 
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VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
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No, that would be for users to do. I must say I am surprised some OEMs haven't put full Linux distros on, though.

I picked up an Asus X200A (I think) with 2GB RAM (soldered on) and a 3-cell battery (built-in, non-user-removable), for $200. With Ubuntu 12.04 LTS pre-installed! (Edit: It has an IB Celeron dual-core 1007U.)

I grew to like it, then dislike it. The Firefox on Linux doesn't always restore my tabs from last time, the hibernate feature simply doesn't work, and the lack of RAM is a real problem, when you open more than about 10-15 tabs.

My buddy keeps telling me to re-format and put Linux Mint on. I might, I suppose, when I get bored enough with Ubuntu.
 
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Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
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Or Arch...:D

For the tabs, and low RAM/CPU, you need to have Noscript and Adblock, whether you use FF or Chrome. It's nice for full desktops, but low-spec PCs are just unusable, with more than a handful of tabs, without them. 2GB RAM and a Core Duo (nope, not even Core 2) holds me over, with many more tabs, but I couldn't handle it extension-free, in either FF or Chromium. Kernels with BFS also make a palpable improvement.

Firefox on Linux handles pulling back my last session fine. Have you tried this?
 

B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
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I like the idea of the Chromebook, but not having to log in and let Google collect data on my computer usage...

I would rather take the $279.99 Celeron Win 8 touchscreen at BestBuy than the stock CB.

Every time I think about getting a CB to mess around with, it starts with installing a Linux distro first, without ever logging in to Google services.
 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
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Chromebooks are an interesting breed, but invariably anyone I recommend them to will always complain about lack of some app that is a deal-breaker (e.g. itunes, office ,etc.).

I'd rather spend an extra $100-200 and get a real notebook that can do all the things a Chromebook can do better and more.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
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I like the idea of the Chromebook, but not having to log in and let Google collect data on my computer usage...

I would rather take the $279.99 Celeron Win 8 touchscreen at BestBuy than the stock CB.

Every time I think about getting a CB to mess around with, it starts with installing a Linux distro first, without ever logging in to Google services.

Wouldn't installing a Linux distro on the CB defeat the purpose of playing around with a CB in the first place?

I'd inclined to say that with similarly spec'd machines, ie, same Celeron, same RAM, etc, the CB would provide the far better experience with regards to performance and battery life.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
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Wouldn't installing a Linux distro on the CB defeat the purpose of playing around with a CB in the first place?

I'd inclined to say that with similarly spec'd machines, ie, same Celeron, same RAM, etc, the CB would provide the far better experience with regards to performance and battery life.

I'm not really sure why that would be. ChromeOS is at it's core, Linux. And Linux has worse power-management than Windows.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
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Wouldn't installing a Linux distro on the CB defeat the purpose of playing around with a CB in the first place?
Look at it from the other side: wouldn't installing Linux on any other notebook defeat the purpose of playing around with Windows 8 in the first place? Only if Windows might provide you some value. Managing even high-maintenance distros like Arch is a breeze, compared to dealing with Cygwin and various hacked-together Windows versions of software not native to Windows, and then also dealing with Windows in general, on a notebook.

I'm not really sure why that would be. ChromeOS is at it's core, Linux. And Linux has worse power-management than Windows.
ChromeOS is, at its core, Google's. Google and Acer/HP/Samsung/etc. custom-implement it to a degree, much like they do in phones and tablets. With phones and tablets, FI, it commonly takes awhile for 3rd-party ROMs to get anywhere even close to the original firmware's battery life, because they don't have enough access, if they have an at ally, to what the manufacturer was doing to make it last as long as it did with the stock OS.
 
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Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
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Chromebooks win on price and most people won't notice since the web browser is practically all they use when they think of "computer" and never bother to build their own little "cloud" since networking is like cuneiform to them. I wouldn't last a day since I like keeping things stored locally and use various applications that are certainly not just browser extensions, even though I certainly do browse a lot. They will never, ever become "mainstream" though. They are a supplementary device with crippling limitations.
 
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CuriousMike

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2001
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Chromebooks win on price and most people won't notice since the web browser is practically all they use when they think of "computer"
[snip]
They will never, ever become "mainstream" though. They are a supplementary device with crippling limitations.

Those seem like contradictory statements.
"Most people" have the connotation of "mainstream" to me.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
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Chromebooks win on price and most people won't notice since the web browser is practically all they use when they think of "computer" *Snip* They will never, ever become "mainstream" though. They are a supplementary device with crippling limitations.

I think you just contradicted yourself there. What percentage of notebook's sold would need to be considered mainstream, in your opinion? 1 in 5 notebooks sold last quarter was a Chromebook. Thats 20%. More than the marketshare of Macbooks.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
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I think you just contradicted yourself there. What percentage of notebook's sold would need to be considered mainstream, in your opinion? 1 in 5 notebooks sold last quarter was a Chromebook. Thats 20%. More than the marketshare of Macbooks.
I should have used many, not most to modify "people", as it is the case that most people are not getting Chromebooks, but rather a significant minority.

Chromebooks are simply too limited to ever become a primary machine for a person or household, and even as a mobile device, faces stiff competition. The user's is so usage pattern must be such that a specific application that needs a desktop OS("fuller" Linux distro or Windows) is simply unneeded for them both in the present and future, which is rarely the case. Even the college student might need Matlab, SimUText, or STATA if going into a certain field.

They are good for being an extra backup computer or easy-to-carry computer with keyboard, but not as a main computer.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
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After getting a buyer for the parts in my mining machine, I caved and decided to order an Asus Chromebox to keep a decent device connected to the TV. Should be hear tomorrow, looking forward to playing with it.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
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Chromebooks are simply too limited to ever become a primary machine for a person or household, and even as a mobile device, faces stiff competition. The user's is so usage pattern must be such that a specific application that needs a desktop OS("fuller" Linux distro or Windows) is simply unneeded for them both in the present and future, which is rarely the case.
My mom has one, and it does everything she needs, and has needed for years. It doesn't replace the desktop, but there's nothing she ever does on a notebook that it doesn't do. Her previous netbook was also nothing but a host for a web browser. So, these people do exist.

I would very much like to see sales numbers that are actually sales to end users, though. How many of these people exist?
 

geoffkinn

Junior Member
Apr 17, 2014
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Who's "NOMURA" anyway?? I find this VERY hard to believe: Chromebooks accounted for 21% of U.S. notebook sales last year
 

AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
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Who's "NOMURA" anyway?? I find this VERY hard to believe: Chromebooks accounted for 21% of U.S. notebook sales last year

I do too. I haven't seen one Chromebook out in the wild. Hell if that's Chromebook's percentages, I wonder what number they give to MacBooks since they should be much higher. I've seen way more Surfaces than Chromebooks.