CNN examines the high cost of college with their film "Ivory Tower."

[PricklyPete]

For Clemson??? The system has got to be unsustainable. I keep telling my kid that I'm funding my retirement before his eduction.

Yeah, ridiculous. Granted, the facilities are a bit better these days and I know the school has become more selective, but there is no way it is worth that much.

 

[Mai72]

Yeah, ridiculous. Granted, the facilities are a bit better these days and I know the school has become more selective, but there is no way it is worth that much.

I wonder if Clemson are using real or adjunct professors. If I was paying $40k a year and I found out they were using adjuncts I would be furious!

 

[doubledeluxe]

Does anyone have an article that actually takes an objective look at the rising costs? Right now all the projections are based on prices rising at 7% since they have been doing that for decades. Well any compound interest calculator will tell you that prices are going to rise like crazy then. What's to say that prices really will continue to rise at that rate?

At this rate we will return to the days where only the rich got an education and the dumbed down masses were subjugated by the rich. We prohibited slaves from getting educated. During the middle ages when most countries operated under feudalism only the rich got educated.

 

[soccerballtux]

I worked 4 summers in highschool banking half of everything I made and it failed to pay for a quarter a semester of tuition.

I tell old people who grunt and ask me if it taught me the value of a dollar.

No, it taught me the value of an hour of freedom.

story continues: I worked at one place for a year at minimum wage, asked for a raise because I never skipped, showed up late, went home early, or called in sick. Store owner said "why, when I can just hire the next guy at minimum wage?"

So that's what he did.

I'm going to go back in 10 years get sick from the food and file a lawsuit as retribution.

 

[Carson Dyle]

Does anyone have an article that actually takes an objective look at the rising costs? Right now all the projections are based on prices rising at 7% since they have been doing that for decades. Well any compound interest calculator will tell you that prices are going to rise like crazy then. What's to say that prices really will continue to rise at that rate?

At that rate, the cost doubles (increases by 100%) approximately every 10 years.

I just found a newspaper article about the local university, Colorado State, saying that tuition and fees have increased 155% in the past 10 years.

 

[soccerballtux]

that's what happens when you subsidize demand in supply-constrained, high-capital-cost-entry industries

 

[doubledeluxe]

At that rate, the cost doubles (increases by 100%) approximately every 10 years.

I just found a newspaper article about the local university, Colorado State, saying that tuition and fees have increased 155% in the past 10 years.

Way more than that at some. You picked your local university and got 155%. I graduated a bit over 10 years ago but it has gone up OVER 400% since then.

Here's a good example. UC Berkeley
http://registrar.berkeley.edu/feeschedarch.html

2003-2004: $ 2,928.95 per semester
2013-2014: $7,610.75 per semester

260%

Now just go back a few years on that link. It doesn't take much to get to 300%. 400%+

1999-2000: $2,023.25

That's 376%

 

[DrPizza]

The miscellaneous fees are worse than the tuition sometimes. Some schools require their students to live on campus, at least for the first couple of years. In my area of the country, 4 students could outright purchase a decent house for the amount they're forced to pay for their room for 4 years. Then, a lot of universities are spending a fortune on renovating and building new housing for students. Townhouses, on campus? Really?? And the dining halls - you've gotta offer far more choices at every meal than is practical - the first avenue of competition with other universities is the variety of food available when high school students come to visit.

 

[Carson Dyle]

Here's a good example. UC Berkeley
http://registrar.berkeley.edu/feeschedarch.html

2003-2004: $ 2,928.95 per semester
2013-2014: $7,610.75 per semester

260%

260% of the original, which is a 160% increase.

(B - A) / A * 100

 

[Imp]

I'm going to have to watch this film again. Right before break CNN was telling a dean that the head of Harvard only makes 900k a year. My guess is the dean that they were interviewing makes a few million, because he went on to say that he does more work. Sure you do. I don't know how they can justify a $3m a year salary.

CNN went on to talk about how colleges are cutting cost by hiring adjuncts to teach classes.

I'm watching the film now, just finished that part. I think it was about Cooper Union. President's compensation was ~$700k versus Harvard president's ~$900k? It was apparently about how they "had to" start charging tuition at the institution that was all about free education for a long time. The reason for the need for tuition was the most "interesting" part...

Canada is getting bad now. Really only a few of the top ones are worth it, University of Toronto is in the 30K/yr range for International students. Only McGill is giving the best value but how much longer until they get greedy too?

Oh, it's on its way. My tuition for engineering was $8k around 2004 and it's now around $12k. That's a 50% increase in 10 years.

I think McGill's only well priced for residents of Quebec. Out of province get charged way more, last I checked.

Teacher's college in Ontario? One year is now two years. I think the reasoning was about the oversupply? Not sure how the tuition changes, if they split the one year rate across two years... but I really doubt that.

 

[MarkXIX]

When I started attending college back in 2003 on campus, the facilities were pretty barren. Worn wooden desks, creaky wooden floors, chalk boards, and lots of photocopied handouts for course material. To me it FELT like college because it FELT like the key was the content, not the material environment.

Now though, same university 11 years later has custom tile work with university logos in most restrooms, automated sinks, hand dryers, toilets, high end designed classrooms and meeting rooms chock full of expensive, if not underutilized technology (I work in IT, the average person still can't hook up a projector to a VGA port). Not to mention there seem to be about 10 times more administrators and offices than there used to be as well. I remember you just about had to see the one little old lady for everything, now there's nine additional "professionals" in her place that tell you to take your massive packet of paperwork to five other offices just to enroll in the one damn class.

I can go on, but clearly the money isn't adding to the quality of the education, it appears to be going to obscene infrastructure and administrative overhead because they CAN, not because they MUST. Don't get me started on athletics at the university level. As I understand it though, the university I'm talking about split their athletics off into a separate business unit that largely fund themselves...or so they say.

PS - BTW, my kids have already been told that unless they get a full-ride scholarship or some other substantial grants that pays the large majority of their college bill, they'll be attending community college for at least their 2-year degree.

PPS - The US Army paid for my entire degree and then some. Considering my master's degree only because I still have some GI Bill left over.

 

[Jeff7]

I meant in Cali.

Otherwise, I'm with you. My kid is 13 so I hoping there's some type of implosion/reform in the next 5 years. It was posted here that Clemson's tuition went up 36% in 5 years. That's ridiculous. The kids aren't getting a 36% better education.

But maybe they've converted their computer lab into a lounge, with fancy mood lighting, a jukebox, big TVs everywhere.....and possibly even a few computers for doing work.
Or maybe they've got a large stock ticker LED display in the Business building.



Important things.

 

[LegendKiller]

College officials and athletic staff make bullshit cash.

Took a look at the U of M and found this.

This is what I am talking about. The UofM took the Science Classroom building, which was a rusting crappy building, but it was 100% classrooms, tore it down and built this chrome and glass monstrosity that was "architecturally pleasing" and then filled it half way up with administration.

It's why I won't donate .01 to the UofM now.

Same crap with their athletics center.

 

[highland145]

But maybe they've converted their computer lab into a lounge, with fancy mood lighting, a jukebox, big TVs everywhere.....and possibly even a few computers for doing work.
Or maybe they've got a large stock ticker LED display in the Business building.



Important things.

Truth. I had dinner with the director of the local university wellness center. She said the exact same thing. Kids/parents..."Oh, it's perty." Schools gotta keep up with the Jones to get the kids.

 

[JMapleton]

College is a waste. Bust your hump so you can get a $70k a year job sitting in a cubicle and become just another face in the crowd. Start a business. At least with a business you'll have the chance at becoming successful at a young age instead of spending your life watching other people's amazing lives on television and magazines.

If you fail, you can at least say you tried. Most people never put themselves in the position where they even have the slightest chance of getting rich.

Imagine waking up everyday and knowing no matter how hard you try, no matter how great you are at your cubicle job, you'll never live an amazing lifestyle.

 

[Imp]

College is a waste. Bust your hump so you can get a $70k a year job sitting in a cubicle and become just another face in the crowd. Start a business. At least with a business you'll have the chance at becoming successful at a young age instead of spending your life watching other people's amazing lives on television and magazines.

If you fail, you can at least say you tried. Most people never put themselves in the position where they even have the slightest chance of getting rich.

Imagine waking up everyday and knowing no matter how hard you try, no matter how great you are at your cubicle job, you'll never live an amazing lifestyle.

One of the biggest realizations I made over the past few years. No matter how successful I was at work, I'd never be rich -- I'd be comfortable, but always a paycheck bitch to someone else. Don't need amazing, just not the suck that I was putting up with. That factored into me quitting eventually.

Trying the do my own thing approach now. Good chance I'm going to fail, but I won't be regretting trying later.

 

[Carson Dyle]

I can go on, but clearly the money isn't adding to the quality of the education, it appears to be going to obscene infrastructure and administrative overhead because they CAN, not because they MUST.

I think what you're missing is that those facilities are highly visible to prospective new students (and their parents), so are important in drawing in new recruits. Which is critical to the bottom line.

Here, Colorado State has been undergoing a massive remodeling of just about everything on campus. They're closely competing with the University of Colorado, just 40 minutes away, which has a gorgeous campus (CSU will likely never come close to CU in aesthetics). CSU is a bit landlocked, as far as expansion goes, so they've begun tearing down some old buildings to put up shiny new ones, as well as doing massive renovations in some of the more permanent structures. They've publicly stated that they're trying to draw a higher percentage of out of state students due to the higher revenue. You can't do that with a campus that looks like it was built on a shoestring in the 1960s.

 

[Jeff7]

College is a waste. Bust your hump so you can get a $70k a year job sitting in a cubicle and become just another face in the crowd. Start a business. At least with a business you'll have the chance at becoming successful at a young age instead of spending your life watching other people's amazing lives on television and magazines.

If you fail, you can at least say you tried. Most people never put themselves in the position where they even have the slightest chance of getting rich.

Imagine waking up everyday and knowing no matter how hard you try, no matter how great you are at your cubicle job, you'll never live an amazing lifestyle.

Statistically speaking, that's a very probable outcome.


By definition, not everyone can be extraordinary. Welcome to life.
Pardon us commoners brushing by your ivory tower.



And plenty of people on this planet would, with little hesitation, murder someone for a reasonable chance at a $70k/year job.

 

[doubledeluxe]

College is a waste. Bust your hump so you can get a $70k a year job sitting in a cubicle and become just another face in the crowd. Start a business. At least with a business you'll have the chance at becoming successful at a young age instead of spending your life watching other people's amazing lives on television and magazines.

If you fail, you can at least say you tried. Most people never put themselves in the position where they even have the slightest chance of getting rich.

Imagine waking up everyday and knowing no matter how hard you try, no matter how great you are at your cubicle job, you'll never live an amazing lifestyle.

True for some. False for most. Imagine someone who wants to do something with Science or Engineering, Medicine, Law, Accounting, and a myriad of other fields. You need an education.

Where I think people fail is thinking that they HAVE to go to college. You're much better off being the world's best plumber than a mediocre architect. Do what makes you happy and what you're good at.

Another thing that people fail at is discounting trade schools. If you suck at school but are great with your hands why not go and learn how to be a carpenter rather than do some stupid liberal arts degree that you will never use? Even if you use it to get a desk job somewhere you would probably be better off working construction where you would be very good.

Starting a business isn't for everyone. I like to think that it should be a thought in everyone's mind at some point in their career but I really don't think it's for everyone.

 

[jpiniero]

There's nothing wrong with forgiving student loans if the person graduated and has become employable with actual skills. Education is what helps drive economic growth and the smarter/more skilled we are, the more the economy will thrive.

That is if there are jobs for them. That's the rub - there isn't. We have far too many people with degrees for the amount of jobs that really need it, even in STEM fields. When you factor in China and India it only looks worse.

 

[Mai72]

My brother works for the post office. He makes $30 an hour. He has full benefits, and a matching 401k. He also gets a lot of sick days. You know what? He's very happy.

Not everyone wants to take the world by storm. A lot of people are just content to make a nice paycheck and go home at night to their wife and children. In fact, I think this is most of America.

 

[LegendKiller]

College is a waste. Bust your hump so you can get a $70k a year job sitting in a cubicle and become just another face in the crowd. Start a business. At least with a business you'll have the chance at becoming successful at a young age instead of spending your life watching other people's amazing lives on television and magazines.

If you fail, you can at least say you tried. Most people never put themselves in the position where they even have the slightest chance of getting rich.

Imagine waking up everyday and knowing no matter how hard you try, no matter how great you are at your cubicle job, you'll never live an amazing lifestyle.

This. That's why average lifetime earnings and unemployment rate for college graduates is *worse* than high school graduates.

 

[Ns1]

True for some. False for most. Imagine someone who wants to do something with Science or Engineering, Medicine, Law, Accounting, and a myriad of other fields. You need an education.

Where I think people fail is thinking that they HAVE to go to college. You're much better off being the world's best plumber than a mediocre architect. Do what makes you happy and what you're good at.

Another thing that people fail at is discounting trade schools. If you suck at school but are great with your hands why not go and learn how to be a carpenter rather than do some stupid liberal arts degree that you will never use? Even if you use it to get a desk job somewhere you would probably be better off working construction where you would be very good.

Starting a business isn't for everyone. I like to think that it should be a thought in everyone's mind at some point in their career but I really don't think it's for everyone.

I agree with all of this.

 

[Mai72]

This. That's why average lifetime earnings and unemployment rate for college graduates is *worse* than high school graduates.

Are you being sarcastic?

 

[Howard]

I think I paid an average of less than $7000 per year (not semester) for my accredited engineering program.