CNN blurbs on a few people with crazy-high college debt

[Texashiker]

Maybe you thought I was insulting Mursilis?

Yes.

A lot of kids would be better off going to a trade school or even just dicking around for a few years until they got their head on straight.

I totally agree with the trade school comment. Not everyone is cut out to sit behind a desk for 16 years - 12 years of school + 4 years of college.

After high school I went into the industrial field and learned a skill. The skills I learned cost me nothing, they are always in demand, and the skills are portable. I can go just about anywhere in the nation and find a decent job.

The problem with todays generation, people frown on physical labor. It it involves getting dirty and sweaty, very few people want to go that route. What this means in the long run, there is going to be a shortfall of skilled workers.

Even today, welding shops and metal working shops are having a difficult time finding young people that want to do the work. Most of the employers are having to turn to foreigners because most of the white people want to go to college.

Why would anyone want to spend $100k on getting a job that pays $50k? When they can go into the industrial field, learn a skill and make $50k with no college debt. I know people that dropped out of high school, went to work on offshore drilling rigs and make $100k a year.

 

[Dulanic]

It's part of why I never went to college TBH. Well this and the fact I didn't have any support in paying for it. I do plan to FINALLY go to community college now that I am 30 and actually got to a point I really do need some schooling.

 

[gaidensensei]

Why would anyone want to spend $100k on getting a job that pays $50k? When they can go into the industrial field, learn a skill and make $50k with no college debt. I know people that dropped out of high school, went to work on offshore drilling rigs and make $100k a year.

If it only takes a few years to pay off and it's a field you would prefer doing than manual labor, it could be definitely appeasing.
For some areas it depends on how you see you will pay it off. It is not too bad. My PI (Principal Investigator) makes six figures a year with a PhD in social physcology along with genetic counseling, but that's before all the necessary subtractions. The debt incurred from the bachelor's and extra master's program tuition, along with the phd costs is well over what she makes in a year, but it is easy to pay off in a span over several years.

 

[Mursilis]

What they don’t talk about is all of the outrages trips around the world and other things that the money was really wasted on while working on those degrees. I have several friends in the same boat and the whole time they were traveling, never working, and clubbing while in school.

I saw the same - there were people living pretty well on student loan money. New or newer cars, nice apartments, spring break in Cancun, etc. Meanwhile, I was renting a cheap room and trying to get extra hours at work during breaks. No sympathy from me!

 

[Brovane]

Maybe you thought I was insulting Mursilis? That wasn't my point at all...I was just trying to place myself in the shoes of some one that got into that situation (massive amount of debt and a worthless degree) and explain how I could see it happen. I feel like the system takes advantage of youthful naive and listlessness and then leaves a financially crippled and helpless person on the other side. I went to college for CIS just before the .com bubble blew up. All I heard the whole time from everyone was how fucking rich I was going to be.

Some one else said "it's just the next step". Everyone tells you that its just what you're going to do. A lot of kids would be better off going to a trade school or even just dicking around for a few years until they got their head on straight.

I agree with this. When I graduated school I had no idea what I was going to do. I went to Community College for several years to just get me GE stuff out of the way at 13$/unit. Usually between books and college costs I was paying around $600 a semester and living at home. This was in the 90's. At one point I wanted to get into finance. I then decided to try and get into law enforcement. I then went to a state school and still lived at home. The cost was around 1500 a semester for a full load. After applying to various police agencies while I was in school and getting jerked around I decided I had enought of that. I originally was going for a political science degree with a concentration in Public Admin. I actually left school in my senior year in 1998 and went to a computer trade school. Finished the trade school and by the end of the year in 1999 I had a job paying over $40k a year. The company that I was then working for paid for me to then go back to school and finish my Bachelors degree. So now I am a network Admin with a degree in Politicial Science and a job paying $100k+. One of my friends went to Purdue and has a double bachelors in History and something else. Right now he is still paying on his student loans, 10+ year after graduating. A couple of months ago he was bitching that several people in our group of friends make more money than him including me and we don't have college degrees. I reminded him that I have college degree, he told me that it didn't count because I don't use it . One of or friends is a NOC engineer with no degree he makes $60k plus and he gets paid hourly so he rakes in OT.

At the end of the day mosts students when they are 18-19 early 20's don't have the decision making ability to really know what they are taking on when they wind up borrowing $100k+ in college loans. We have 40+ year old adults that take on way to much debt and wind up under water on home loans etc. However they have a easy out they can either walk away from the house or declare bankruptcy and get out of the debt. For most students declaring bankruptcy isn't usually a option on student loans. They are then stuck with this debt for what can be the rest of their lives. We are holding these young adults more responsible than the 40 year old that takes out a sub-prime mortgage with a teaser rate and escalating payments. I think this is just wrong. They wind up trapping themselves in this debt for the rest of their lives. Also sometimes the loan also gets locked in at excessive interest rates.

I know for my two children I will make sure that I sit down and discuss career salaries if they want to go to expensive schools. However we cannot always expect that all students will have this same discussion. To many times high schoolers are pushed into college all costs even if they are not sure. I remember when I was graduating high school it seemed that all the cool kids where going straight to 4-year universites and the kids going to community college where talked down on, as if they failed. Will screw that, I will take a 2-year junior college over any of the big over crowded 4-year schools any day.

 

[Mursilis]

After high school I went into the industrial field and learned a skill. The skills I learned cost me nothing, they are always in demand, and the skills are portable. I can go just about anywhere in the nation and find a decent job.

The problem with todays generation, people frown on physical labor. It it involves getting dirty and sweaty, very few people want to go that route. What this means in the long run, there is going to be a shortfall of skilled workers.

Even today, welding shops and metal working shops are having a difficult time finding young people that want to do the work. Most of the employers are having to turn to foreigners because most of the white people want to go to college.

Why would anyone want to spend $100k on getting a job that pays $50k? When they can go into the industrial field, learn a skill and make $50k with no college debt. I know people that dropped out of high school, went to work on offshore drilling rigs and make $100k a year.

You have a valid point. I also think that we coddle the unemployed far too much, dissuading them from taking most forms of manual labor. I've always believed that any honest labor has dignity, and I've mowed laws, collected trash, washed dishes, and scrubbed floors over my work life - basically, anything to get a legal paycheck. The best job I ever had was as a bike mechanic, turning wrenches, working with my hands, and being away from a desk. Of course, since it paid about 1/6 of what I'm making now, I don't do it anymore, but it was great while it lasted.

 

[Mursilis]

At the end of the day mosts students when they are 18-19 early 20's don't have the decision making ability to really know what they are taking on when they wind up borrowing $100k+ in college loans. We have 40+ year old adults that take on way to much debt and wind up under water on home loans etc. However they have a easy out they can either walk away from the house or declare bankruptcy and get out of the debt. For most students declaring bankruptcy isn't usually a option on student loans. They are then stuck with this debt for what can be the rest of their lives. We are holding these young adults more responsible than the 40 year old that takes out a sub-prime mortgage with a teaser rate and escalating payments. I think this is just wrong.

You're right - we need to make it MUCH harder for 40+ year-olds to declare bankruptcy. "I was an idiot with a credit card" should never be a sufficient reason to discharge debt.

 

[PingSpike]

I saw the same - there were people living pretty well on student loan money. New or newer cars, nice apartments, spring break in Cancun, etc. Meanwhile, I was renting a cheap room and trying to get extra hours at work during breaks. No sympathy from me!

Yes...true there. I assumed those kids had rich parents when I was in college, but later on I realized that wasn't always the case.

I just disagree with the whole idea that you can lend a stupid kid a ton of money and then he's locked into it for the rest of his life with suicide as the only way out. And we certainly shouldn't have an entire education culture that ushers them into this scheme whole sale without even really explaining the ramifications. I firmly believe if kids could default on their loans you'd see lenders more wary about giving your $120K to get a sculpture degree and tuition would come down or stabilize as a result.

The extra money isn't really spent on improving education is many cases either. They use it to build new fancier buildings because this works very well at attracting new students (and their loan money). Kids shouldn't pick their college based on who has the most awesome welcome center or food court but...they do.

 

[Genx87]

I am seeing a pattern here. Except for the engineer and the graphics designer. Lots of social science majors, who were dumb enough to take on more debt to get master degree's in their field.

 

[Genx87]

I was going to take the LSAT a few years ago and started reading up on law schools. I remember looking at the average starting salary in the guides and thinking 'wow, that's not bad, I thought new lawyers were struggling more than that'. Then I read about how they manipulate those numbers and I decided against law school entirely.

I was going to go into law school until every one of my friends who are lawyers, which is about 8 now, told me to get an MBA, it is worth more.

 

[Imp]

Perhaps loan underwriting to potential income in the field would make sense.

One thing that just astounds me is the beautiful buildings on the campuses. The school I went to is located in a place that's very cold in the winter and very hot in the summer. They've recently gone on this huge streak of building these awesome looking buildings with half the building faced with glass. They recently replaced an all-classroom building with a glass-faced building that is now 50% filled with admin. Meanwhile, tuition has gone up 70% since I went there 10 years ago.

Who cares if the building costs us an arm and a leg to heat and cool, it's pretty!

During my 4 years in undergrad, my university acquired another block or two, and built at least 2 brand new, 75+ % glazing buildings next to my area of campus. My building science professor was talking about how he was on the university's building/campus committee, and any talk of heating/cooling costs was completely ignored. It's so pretty though... And omfg, si da LEED cert'd!

My tuition went from $8k to $9.5k a year during my time there. Family helped pay for all of it, so I'm debt free. Personally paying out of pocket for my Master's program right now, which is amazingly cheap at only $10k total.

 

[Imp]

I was going to go into law school until every one of my friends who are lawyers, which is about 8 now, told me to get an MBA, it is worth more.

"Ivy" MBA programs here are $50k-$60k per year; "regulars" are ~$15k+. And everyone and their mother now is either getting one, or thinking about getting one. I can't help but feel that we can't all be supervisors/managers... At least the schools are making money?

 

[Mursilis]

Yes...true there. I assumed those kids had rich parents when I was in college, but later on I realized that wasn't always the case.

I just disagree with the whole idea that you can lend a stupid kid a ton of money and then he's locked into it for the rest of his life with suicide as the only way out. And we certainly shouldn't have an entire education culture that ushers them into this scheme whole sale without even really explaining the ramifications. I firmly believe if kids could default on their loans you'd see lenders more wary about giving your $120K to get a sculpture degree and tuition would come down or stabilize as a result.

The extra money isn't really spent on improving education is many cases either. They use it to build new fancier buildings because this works very well at attracting new students (and their loan money). Kids shouldn't pick their college based on who has the most awesome welcome center or food court but...they do.

You're totally right that many colleges spend money foolishly, on stuff like flashy new buildings or useless (to me) departments like the Center for the Study of Left-handed Medieval Lesbian Poets or something. But I can't accept treating these debtors as "victims". At 18, you're old enough to vote, drive, enter into a legal contract, and die for your country in the military. If you want to be treated like an adult (and most 18yos have just spent the last 5 years screaming that demand at their parents), you need to accept the responsibilities of an adult. That includes paying your debts, so sober up kiddies, turn off "Jersey Shore", and think about the consequences of your actions. Enough of this delayed adulthood crap.

 

[Genx87]

"Ivy" MBA programs here are $50k-$60k per year; "regulars" are ~$15k+. And everyone and their mother now is either getting one, or thinking about getting one. I can't help but feel that we can't all be supervisors/managers... At least the schools are making money?

I still think for now an MBA is pretty exclusive. And will demand a higher salary. But I agree, if it becomes like a bachelors, watered down, then it also wont be worth it.

 

[gaidensensei]

"Ivy" MBA programs here are $50k-$60k per year; "regulars" are ~$15k+. And everyone and their mother now is either getting one, or thinking about getting one. I can't help but feel that we can't all be supervisors/managers... At least the schools are making money?

We can't all be doctors/professors/PhD's either. I don't know of any way to solve it other than seeking ways to address the growing world population issue.

 

[irishScott]

At least the Journalism guy gets it now:

Getting a good job is no longer about just working hard or getting a degree, and many people don't appreciate the opportunities that existed for them before.

College is a place to network. You get to know professors, get involved in research, do internships, find someone who can get your foot in the door. Going to classes and getting good grades means nothing unless you're going for grad school. One of my professors put it nicely: "I've never written up a contract with someone, and before letting them sign it asked "wait, what was your GPA again?""

 

[Brovane]

You're totally right that many colleges spend money foolishly, on stuff like flashy new buildings or useless (to me) departments like the Center for the Study of Left-handed Medieval Lesbian Poets or something. But I can't accept treating these debtors as "victims". At 18, you're old enough to vote, drive, enter into a legal contract, and die for your country in the military. If you want to be treated like an adult (and most 18yos have just spent the last 5 years screaming that demand at their parents), you need to accept the responsibilities of an adult. That includes paying your debts, so sober up kiddies, turn off "Jersey Shore", and think about the consequences of your actions. Enough of this delayed adulthood crap.

Yeah but we let older adults walk away from massive amounts of debt in Bankruptcy. How many much older adults walked away from houses they where under water after the real estate bubble burst? The point of bankrupty is to allow someone to be able to discharge their debts and be able to start fresh again without having a debt hanging around for them the rest of their lives.

 

[Blackjack200]

You're right - we need to make it MUCH harder for 40+ year-olds to declare bankruptcy. "I was an idiot with a credit card" should never be a sufficient reason to discharge debt.

Why stop there? How about hold every entrepreneur personally responsible for his loans. Your business fails? Your fault. We take your assets and throw you in jail.

There's a reason we don't do that anymore, and we put the onus on the lender to make sound investments.

 

[Mursilis]

Yeah but we let older adults walk away from massive amounts of debt in Bankruptcy.

And my point, already expressed above, is that we shouldn't do that either.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I still think for now an MBA is pretty exclusive. And will demand a higher salary. But I agree, if it becomes like a bachelors, watered down, then it also wont be worth it.

It is already there -- there is a huge glut of MBAs on the market. If you're not going big and going to a top 20 program or if you're not getting it free from your company, it probably isn't worth it at this time. I personally wouldn't spend my own money and take out loans to get one. Too risky. If you have the experience, a PMP is much cheaper and will get you a higher salary on average.

 

[PingSpike]

And my point, already expressed above, is that we shouldn't do that either.

A different but related situation I'll agree. But as it is now we punish the younger foolish people for making a financial mistake and they have few real legal safe guards in place. Compare that will buying a house where you can still go bankrupt and walk away and there are lending standards as well as a number of legal protections to the buyer during purchase. That's not even discussing the fact that people buying houses they couldn't afford were on the whole older and presumably more experienced in life.

Also consider that even if it were impossible for a 40 year to walk away from his mortgage entirely it would still be less damaging than the messed up college degree situation. If you house loses 20% of its value you still have an asset that is worth something. You could sell it have a reduced debt load and no house. You can't give your law degree back and get your debt wiped out, or even reduced.

It seems if we're going to expect maturity and responsibility from one group and not the other that the 18 year old high school kids are not the one to start with.

 

[JSt0rm]

College is not a place to "learn your passion." It's job training and you need to train for a job that will put money in your pocket.

I disagree to an extent. If your family is wealthy then by all means learn about whatever you desire. Build a broad educated understand of the world and things in it. But if you come from a middle class background and you will have to pay your way you can not force that life upon yourself. You will wish you would take classes on pottery and hand printing but you cant.

 

[Deeko]

Anyone that is smart enough to go to college should be smart enough to both

A) Use a student loan calculator to determine what your student loans will cost
B) Research the range of salaries your position offers

If you can't do either of those things, and end up swamped with debt with nothing to show for it.....sorry, I have no sympathy for you. For example, my sister wanted to go to law school, did well on the LSATs, ended up backing out because she didn't think 100K in law school debt was worth it for the not-that-astronomical lawyer salary.

Seriously...you're supposed to be college kids, use your brain.

 

[rpanic]

With stories like these I always think of my wife’s best friend. Morbidly obese and blew 70k getting a degree in dance. She even got turned down getting a job teaching strippers. Do people even think long term?

 

[Triumph]

I was just thinking about this earlier today. 50, 60, 70, 100,000 dollars of debt for a job that pays $45k/year, or you could buy a pretty well stocked mechanic's toolbox for $10,000, get an ASE certification, and get a job at a dealership making $37,000. Now who got a better deal?