CNN blurbs on a few people with crazy-high college debt

[sunzt]

Wow, I do feel for those people. Say what you want, but 'college! college! college!' is drilled into our heads, and many never get sensible advice about not racking up debt by making use of community colleges and in-state schools.

I went to my cousin's graduation a few weeks ago and he mentioned that he has about $40k in loans. He asked me what I have and I was actually kind of embarassed to say 'umm... none'

I have other cousins with that much debt and no degree... I wouldn't even know what to say to them.

40k is pretty reasonable and very manageable for someone with a job. As an engineer, even 80k is pretty manageable.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Who in their right mind spends $145k on getting a degree in sculpture?

This aint ancient greece. Where did she have plans on going to work?

When people get these expensive degrees, is there any thought into the actual demand for their skills? Do they ask themselves "who is going to hire me?".

Freelance. They think they are so good that they will get a multi-thousand contract from someplace to create a unique design that will be awed at by allover the world:\.

 

[fskimospy]

The total US mortgage debt is around $10 trillion, while the total student loan debt is around $1 trillion. So this economic collapse will be about 1/10 as bad as the 2008 crash (the worst crash in history). I'm sure that will do wonders for our currently vibrant, strong, and stable economy. :\

That's not really how things work. When banks lose money it is somewhat bad up until the point at which the bank's reserves are overwhelmed and it collapses, at which point things become much worse, it's not a linear scale of 'badness'.

 

[DirthNader]

And Kettering, top engineering school? Come on kid. And every engineering student in the country knows that Industrial Engineering is the easiest major in the field.

As someone who worked for GM, I can say Michigan is an odd, very insular environment. He may consider Kettering / GMI to be a "top engineering school" because he's seen a large number of successful people with Kettering degrees. If he travelled outside of Michigan he'd probably understand Kettering's reputation better.

I've always wondered though, with UM's position as a legitimate top tier engineering school, how can any Michigan Tech, Kettering, or MSU grad really convince themselves that they're "top tier"?

As for IE, there were a metric shit ton of them at GT during the .com bubble. They called it the "money train"; easy engineering degree, land a job with a consulting firm for $40K-$50K. They were also the first ones to feel it when the bubble started to pop.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Perhaps loan underwriting to potential income in the field would make sense.

One thing that just astounds me is the beautiful buildings on the campuses. The school I went to is located in a place that's very cold in the winter and very hot in the summer. They've recently gone on this huge streak of building these awesome looking buildings with half the building faced with glass. They recently replaced an all-classroom building with a glass-faced building that is now 50% filled with admin. Meanwhile, tuition has gone up 70% since I went there 10 years ago.

Who cares if the building costs us an arm and a leg to heat and cool, it's pretty!

With tenured profs making $100K plus; that will skew the loan underwriting statistics for potential earnings.

After all, those that can do, those that cant teach()

 

[EagleKeeper]

EEs made fun of all the other disciplines.

This is true. It must be something in our blood.

People would start as EE and then after 1-2 years switch out.

At the time, the only one considered rougher was the Petroleum engineering;
school did not have that; but they were getting GOOD (+10-20&#37 offers according to the engineering rags.

When I was in school, the figure was something like only 25% who started in EE would actually finish in EE.

See, even though a generation apart; it still holds true

 

[rcpratt]

As someone who worked for GM, I can say Michigan is an odd, very insular environment. He may consider Kettering / GMI to be a "top engineering school" because he's seen a large number of successful people with Kettering degrees. If he travelled outside of Michigan he'd probably understand Kettering's reputation better.

I've always wondered though, with UM's position as a legitimate top tier engineering school, how can any Michigan Tech, Kettering, or MSU grad really convince themselves that they're "top tier"?

I have no idea. I went to a really good high school, so probably a third of the class went to UofM and I only knew a handful that went to Kettering. Everyone I went to school with was more than aware of the difference between UofM and Kettering engineering. Maybe they're just trying to talk it up, I don't know.

 

[fskimospy]

With tenured profs making $100K plus; that will skew the loan underwriting statistics for potential earnings.

After all, those that can do, those that cant teach()

I really doubt it.

An exceedingly small percentage of people who graduate with a bachelor's degree become tenured professors, so it wouldn't skew the numbers much.

If you included grad programs, I bet the overwhelming majority of tenured professors were funded Ph.D's in school, so their debt is far less of a problem.

 

[Blackjack200]

I'm not all that sympathetic to the "but no one told me" arguement! Since I knew early on that I would be paying for most of my higher education (parents covered most of my expenses for 1 year of my 7 years of higher ed. - BA and JD), I just tried on my own to keep my loans small. No one had to tell me that money I borrowed for school would eventually had to be paid back - that's just common sense! I worked 20-40 hrs/week during most of my years, and saved every way I could. I finished my two degrees with under $20K in student debt, and paid it all off in just over 5 years. It's not that hard to figure out.

Remember that these kids have been supported by their parents their whole lives. They view college as a the 'next step', and like other steps in their lives, they are not considering the cost. We have consumer protection laws for credit cards to make sure people understand the cost of their borrowing, but we let an institution charge $200k for a degree in Social Work without stating upfront 'here is what you are paying, here is the cost of the loan, here is how much you can expect to make if you complete your degree'?

I think it's obvious that these kids do not know what they are getting themselves into. How far are we going to let it go? Are we going to wait until they're spending $500k for a psychology degree and then blowing their brains out because they have destroyed their ability to build a life? It will start happening at some point.

 

[DirthNader]

I have no idea. I went to a really good high school, so probably a third of the class went to UofM and I only knew a handful that went to Kettering. Everyone I went to school with was more than aware of the difference between UofM and Kettering engineering. Maybe they're just trying to talk it up, I don't know.

Probably. If I had spent that kind of money I'd be talking it up as well!

I hope I didn't come across as snobby in that post though; in my experience going to a top tier school only increases your chances when you're starting out (although I have heard otherwise for some large local companies).

Hell, one of the best engineers I worked with at GM graduated from Oakland University.

 

[MotF Bane]

The liberal arts degrees with $200k+ are hilarious.

 

[Blackjack200]

40k is pretty reasonable and very manageable for someone with a job. As an engineer, even 80k is pretty manageable.

That's the problem though. His job prospects are not very good, right now he's working as a mover. 12-15 years ago you could get a $40k/year job out of school and then that $40k debt is at least manageable. Now? Not so much...

 

[EagleKeeper]

I really doubt it.

An exceedingly small percentage of people who graduate with a bachelor's degree become tenured professors, so it wouldn't skew the numbers much.

If you included grad programs, I bet the overwhelming majority of tenured professors were funded Ph.D's in school, so their debt is far less of a problem.

You may have misunderstood where my example was going.

If they based loans off of potential earnings; having these tenured profs included in the income levels will skew the potential.

A couple of profs and a couple of successful designers will shift the curve to justify the $100K loans.

They should look at the median income for those that graduated in the past 5 years to get a realistic value.

These folks are in the same league as the JD people; numbers are artificially inflated to justify the school costs.

 

[Blackjack200]

These folks are in the same league as the JD people; numbers are artificially inflated to justify the school costs.

I was going to take the LSAT a few years ago and started reading up on law schools. I remember looking at the average starting salary in the guides and thinking 'wow, that's not bad, I thought new lawyers were struggling more than that'. Then I read about how they manipulate those numbers and I decided against law school entirely.

 

[rpanic]

What they don’t talk about is all of the outrages trips around the world and other things that the money was really wasted on while working on those degrees. I have several friends in the same boat and the whole time they were traveling, never working, and clubbing while in school.

I had about 15k and my wife had about 18k when we were done and we worked the whole time. What really made me laugh is the 5th guy had a masters in social work that cost him 240k WTF my wife has the same degree and she is making more than this fool. How much did he think he was going to make as a social worker LOL.

 

[Blackjack200]

What really made me laugh is the 5th guy had a masters in social work that cost him 240k WTF my wife has the same degree and she is making more than this fool. How much did he think he was going to make as a social worker LOL.

That was $240k between him and his wife (unless I read it wrong). Still pretty bad though.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

That was $240k between him and his wife (unless I read it wrong). Still pretty bad though.

That's how I read it as well and it is still ridiculous for the degrees they got.

 

[yllus]

I clicked the link ready to feel sympathetic to those people, but they are in fact morons. Anyone who gets $240,000 in debt for a social work degree (or degrees) should spend a decade or so in debtors' prison so that they might not inflict their stupidity on the rest of society.

 

[Munky]

At 17 you don't know what money is, or where it comes from? Where were the parents to smack the kid in the head when she decided to pursue her "dreams" of a pubic health degree and curing world hunger?

 

[PingSpike]

I'm not all that sympathetic to the "but no one told me" arguement! Since I knew early on that I would be paying for most of my higher education (parents covered most of my expenses for 1 year of my 7 years of higher ed. - BA and JD), I just tried on my own to keep my loans small. No one had to tell me that money I borrowed for school would eventually had to be paid back - that's just common sense! I worked 20-40 hrs/week during most of my years, and saved every way I could. I finished my two degrees with under $20K in student debt, and paid it all off in just over 5 years. It's not that hard to figure out.

Imagine you're not very bright. Not legally retarded or anything but you're not great at school work. You're young and optimistic, maybe because you're a pretty girl or have just watched to many movies. You come from a family that is bad with money (American) and neither of your parents even went to college. The media, politicians, your teachers and guidance guidance counselor all keep talking about college, how important it is, how much more college grads earn over a lifetime. They don't mention trade schools or other alternative educations. They don't talk about finances except to say money is available and that you should do what you love! They also probably lie to you and say you're talented at something you're actually only not awful at. Your parents encourage it because they've fallen for it too. They're so proud their kid is going to college! They'll support when I'm old!

You don't like studying much but you don't like working at the mall and on TV no one in college studies anyway they mostly drink and sleep with each other and their professors. It sounds like a blast and you don't really know what else to do, so you decide to go. You write crappy poetry so you go for a degree in Philosophy or English. Money has barely mentioned except for something about loans. You pick the campus that has the most hot people or the coolest dorms. Only when you're about to graduate does anyone even start talking about what you're going to do after or how to pay your loans off.

 

[Texashiker]

Imagine you're not very bright. <snip> Only when you're about to graduate does anyone even start talking about what you're going to do after or how to pay your loans off.

Where did that come from?

If someone can get through college with every little debt, then more power to them.

 

[EagleKeeper]

At 17 you don't know what money is, or where it comes from? Where were the parents to smack the kid in the head when she decided to pursue her "dreams" of a pubic health degree and curing world hunger?

These were the parents that lived in VW bused and preached peace/love and goodwill to all mankind:hmm:

 

[PingSpike]

Where did that come from?

If someone can get through college with every little debt, then more power to them.

Maybe you thought I was insulting Mursilis? That wasn't my point at all...I was just trying to place myself in the shoes of some one that got into that situation (massive amount of debt and a worthless degree) and explain how I could see it happen. I feel like the system takes advantage of youthful naive and listlessness and then leaves a financially crippled and helpless person on the other side. I went to college for CIS just before the .com bubble blew up. All I heard the whole time from everyone was how fucking rich I was going to be.

Some one else said "it's just the next step". Everyone tells you that its just what you're going to do. A lot of kids would be better off going to a trade school or even just dicking around for a few years until they got their head on straight.

 

[gaidensensei]

This article is a good hint at what is going on with some of the fields. Even people with degrees in the harder sciences, such as Biology, Chemistry (especially high level chemistry) are struggling to find employment that pay their due as well as the people who get shunned for their liberal arts degree.

It isn't surprising that I've read and seen evidence of biologists fresh with a BS working at $12/hour doing meager lab work on field mice, PCR after PCR, and quite a bit not even able to find a job in the field.
Chemists on another hand, there's fewer positions available in this once robust field, and are struggling, with only a portal to teach as an option.

Another warning sign is the postdocs staying in education research because of inability to find PhD level pay.
I believe it is not far off to say that many fields across college are caving into a dead end...

 

[Drako]

The liberal arts degrees with $200k+ are hilarious.

Yep, at least the engineer might have a chance to payoff his loan eventually. This Matthew Eggen guy is just hosed

"Student debt: $240,000

Degrees: Master's in Social Work from Boston College, Bachelor's in Sociology from University of California, Santa Cruz"