Clutchless Braking?!?

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punkrawket

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2001
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I just got done watching a japanese movie about the s2000 (yes... it was cool and has sub-titles)

but it showed the honda s2000, bmw z3, a ferrari (older 355), '90 acura nsx, silvia, integra r, and a mazda rx-7

while they were racing these cars (sadly the s2000 came in last) they show the incockpit views and "blew" up the spedometer and pedals so you could see the drivers movements and the speed.... i kept noticing that the drivers were braking WITHOUT engaging the clutch, now i drive a 5-speed and if i did that the car would die

what gives?
 
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DaLeroy

Golden Member
Dec 4, 2000
1,406
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<< my car is 21 years old >>



Any car will be able to break without using the clutch. Don't tell me when your doing 60mph, you put your foot on the clutch, brake to 50mph and then take your foot off the clutch? Where did ya learn to drive? :confused:
 
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Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0


<<

<< my car is 21 years old >>



Any car will be able to break without using the clutch. Don't tell me when your doing 60mph, you put your foot on the clutch, brake to 50mph and then take your foot off the clutch? Where did ya learn to drive? :confused: >>


That's what I'm thinking....are you talking aboiut stepping on the brake without also stepping on the clutch? I was under the impression that standing on the clutch like that was bad for the mechanism...
Or do you mean downshifting without using the clutch?
 
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CraigRT

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
31,440
5
0
Why would you not be able to brake without the clutch?
maybe they dumped it into neutral and just braked regularly like you would in an auto...
 
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blueghost75

Golden Member
Dec 12, 2000
1,086
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yea, um you don't need a clutch to break

I never use the clutch to break, its cheaper to replace break pads than to replace the clutch
 
silverpig

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
12
81
You only really need to clutch when braking from say, 60 mph to 5 mph... Mostly on account of you'll probably be in 5th gear at 60, but when you want to speed up again after you hit 5, you'll wanna be in 2nd...
 
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punkrawket

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2001
1,924
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<<

<<

<< my car is 21 years old >>



Any car will be able to break without using the clutch. Don't tell me when your doing 60mph, you put your foot on the clutch, brake to 50mph and then take your foot off the clutch? Where did ya learn to drive? :confused: >>


That's what I'm thinking....are you talking aboiut stepping on the brake without also stepping on the clutch? I was under the impression that standing on the clutch like that was bad for the mechanism...
Or do you mean downshifting without using the clutch? >>

right... that's what i mean....

sorry about confusion.... words don't come out right all the time *hits head*

 
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Cyberian

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2000
9,999
1
0


<< you sir are an idiot

and your car must suck as well >>

Smooth, very smooth.


punkrawket - I have been driving standard/manual/stick shift for 40+ years and you should indeed be able to brake without using the clutch, as long as you you don't try to come to a complete stop. Were the drivers downshifting while they were braking?


 
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BCYL

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2000
7,803
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71
err... why did the S2000 came in last? the driver must have sucked...
 
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punkrawket

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2001
1,924
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sorry about confusion

i'd host the video but it's over an hour long and weighing in at 300+ MB
 
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jsbush

Diamond Member
Nov 13, 2000
3,871
0
76
The way to get it in gear without using the clutch is to give it some gas so then engine revs and turns the gear you want to go into. So both gears are engaging at the same speed.
 
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punkrawket

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2001
1,924
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<< err... why did the S2000 came in last? the driver must have sucked... >>

they said it didn't have enough torque... it was heavy just overall not the best race course car but said it made an excellent car for curvy bendy type roads (at a loss for word)
 
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HappyPuppy

Lifer
Apr 5, 2001
16,997
2
71
You can also brake without braking, just downshift. Your old, worn out engine will thank you for reminding it of its youth.
 
Lithium381

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,455
7
81
I downshift to slow down in my car...and i use the clutch......in some racecars, they dont' use the clutch to "upshift" only when downshifting.......that'd be coo'
 
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BCYL

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2000
7,803
0
71


<<

<< err... why did the S2000 came in last? the driver must have sucked... >>

they said it didn't have enough torque... it was heavy just overall not the best race course car but said it made an excellent car for curvy bendy type roads (at a loss for word) >>



It should have still beat the Integra Type-R and maybe even the z3...
 
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Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
You can shift up or down without using the clutch if you know what RPMs the gears match up at. It's not all that great for your transmission, esp. if you screw up, but it can be done.
I read an article where the guy says that while driving on a long straight stretch of road, in 3rd gear, note your RPM and speed. Then shift to 4th and note the new lower RPM at the same speed.
Now, put it to neutral. Gently rev the engine towards the first RPM reading and gently push the shifter towards 3rd. When you reach the correct RPM (it will probably be a little lower than what you read since you've lost some speed by now) the shifter should easily move into 3rd without using the clutch.

The guy who wrote the article said he's got such a good feel for what RPMs go at what speeds for what gears that he often forgets to use the clutch altogether on long drives...
 
Zenmervolt

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
44
91
<<I never use the clutch to break, its cheaper to replace break pads than to replace the clutch>>

If you are staying in the same gear, then you wear the clutch more by disengaging it and then engaging it again after slowing. When coming to a stop, the best thing to do is to leave the clutch engaged (and not shift) until the engine reaches idle speed, then disengage the clutch and shift into first. Do not re-engage clutch until you take off again. If you meant downshifting to slow down, yes that can be a little hard on the clutch, but it's no big deal at all if you have any ability to rev-match whatsoever. You're better off downshifting to slow the car if you are driving through curves because when the transmission is engaged you have to option of applying power at any time, which you simply cannot do when using brakes alone.

ZV
 
Rallispec

Rallispec

Lifer
Jul 26, 2001
12,375
10
81
i have no idea how to shift without using the clutch-- and dont plan on doing that in my brand new car.
however, my cars manual did say that you shouldnt press down on the clutch while breaking unless youre down around 1500 rpms, and also- when you are at a stop light, put the car in nuetral and let your foot off the clutch.
 
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BCYL

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2000
7,803
0
71


<< i have no idea how to shift without using the clutch-- and dont plan on doing that in my brand new car.
however, my cars manual did say that you shouldnt press down on the clutch while breaking unless youre down around 1500 rpms, and also- when you are at a stop light, put the car in nuetral and let your foot off the clutch. >>



Yeah... pressing down on the clutch while the car is in gear will add to the wear&tear of the clutch... it is always recommended that you shift into neutral and release the clutch instead...
 
Vic

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136


<<

<< i have no idea how to shift without using the clutch-- and dont plan on doing that in my brand new car.
however, my cars manual did say that you shouldnt press down on the clutch while breaking unless youre down around 1500 rpms, and also- when you are at a stop light, put the car in nuetral and let your foot off the clutch. >>



Yeah... pressing down on the clutch while the car is in gear will add to the wear&tear of the clutch... it is always recommended that you shift into neutral and release the clutch instead... >>



Specifically, it's bad for the throw-out bearing (because it is designed to spin ONLY when it is engaged into the pressure plate and to stop spinning immediately after it is disengaged) and "riding" the clutch can also cause premature wear to the "fingers" of the pressure plate (because the throw-out bearing is pressing on them).
A bad throw-out bearing will cause your clutch to slip, but ONLY as you are disengaging the clutch, i.e. while starting off. Worn pressure plate fingers will cause your clutch to not engage fully, making shifting more difficult and harder on the tranny. So... the worst of both worlds.
You should only engage the clutch to change gears. If you are coasting to a stop or sitting at a stoplight, you should immediately put the tranny in neutral and let the clutch out.
And yes, you can shift without using the clutch but, unless you have a special race tranny that is designed for that, I wouldn't recommend it, especially while downshifting.
 
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