close to pulling the trigger on a nokia 5800

[makken]

I've been in the market for a new phone and was recommended the 5800 when i posted over at howardforums:
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1563206

I was originally planning on waiting on the GSM palm pre, but it looks like its not coming out till sometime in 2010, which is a bit longer than im willing to wait (i was expecting it this oct).

After looking at the 5800 for a bit, I'm thinking of picking it up and using it to hold me over until the GSM pre comes out or the nokia N900 drops to a reasonable price point. I'm also going to use it to judge how well I like using a touch only phone.

I have a few concerns before purchasing though

1) Is there an easy way to tell the NAM version from the euro version? I'm 99% sure i'm going to purchase this online, and I don't want to end up with a phone that doesn't work on AT&T's 3g. I'm also assuming that I shouldn't buy it in hong kong since they won't carry the NAM version?

2) Are there any firmware versions I should avoid, or is the firmware easily flashable and I really needn't worry about which version I end up with?

3) How are 3rd party apps? I read conflicting reports on the quality and quantity of S60 v5 apps

and finally: how well is the file structure for the music player? since it has a 3.5mm jack, I'm interested in using it to replace my ipod as well

thanks

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

There is an NAM version. Check if there's 850mhz.

The firmwares are pretty good, just flash to the latest. Nokia Software Updater is relatively easier to use. Only iTunes would be easier IMO.

3rd party apps? Pretty decent. How about Garmin Mobile XT for starters? Beats the iPhone's Tom Tom hands down. There's a good twitter app out there for S60 also.

File structure of the music player? Should be simple to understand. It's not as good as the iPhone music player or some other phones, but it's workable.

BTW, this forum is a lot less experienced with non carrier branded phones unfortunately. I frequently discuss and read HowardForums so you might want to check out the S60 section there as there's a LOT of resources there.

 

[makken]

thanks for the reply, I have been reading howardforums and gsmarena, but they seem pretty dead compared to this forum.

3rd party apps? Pretty decent. How about Garmin Mobile XT for starters? Beats the iPhone's Tom Tom hands down. There's a good twitter app out there for S60 also.

that actually brings up another question -- I've never used a phone with a GPS receiver before, do I need an additional data plan to make use of it?

 

[drdops]

Originally posted by: makken

that actually brings up another question -- I've never used a phone with a GPS receiver before, do I need an additional data plan to make use of it?

In the UK the GPS does not need any additional plan, but it does use a bit of my internet usage when downloading maps for google maps.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Nearly all GPS apps that do mapping need a data connection, with some exceptions, so yes, you will need a data plan, but then if you get a smartphone and you don't get a data plan then you are seriously missing out on the power of your device.

That being said I haven't been bowled over by the 5800 when I've used it. The screen is very narrow, too.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Nearly all GPS apps that do mapping need a data connection, with some exceptions, so yes, you will need a data plan, but then if you get a smartphone and you don't get a data plan then you are seriously missing out on the power of your device.

That being said I haven't been bowled over by the 5800 when I've used it. The screen is very narrow, too.

No you do not need a data connection for mapping. Good software like Garmin Mobile XT will come loaded with maps. You don't get the benefit of A-GPS. I personally think that you won't be totally screwed without a data plan.

A GPS receiver by default does NOT use data. It's when you use the A part of AGPS that uses cell tower data to find out where you are. AT&T navigator from what I understand does not include the whole set of maps which is why you need to download as you go and is a subscription based service. To me it's a complete scam.

IMO the 5800 is a pretty good phone and it's a good deal. I don't think it's an iPhone killer but it's pretty well priced. Nokia is really pushing this phone because it's their truly successful touchscreen phone that's selling well. The firmware updates have been really nice, and I believe Nokia will throw a lot more at this phone before it reaches EOL.

 

[makken]

thanks for clearing up the GPS part

I read that nokia pulled the v30 firmware for the NAM version, which makes me a bit worried about their support. From what I can tell, the v30 was supposed to give the 5800 the UI improvements of the 5530.

I'm also not too fond of the style and structure of the UI itself, though I'm sure I can change the style around with different themes.

Anyways, it looks like dell has a 5% off coupon usable on this phone until sept 4th, but I won't be back in the states until the 5th :|

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Nearly all GPS apps that do mapping need a data connection, with some exceptions, so yes, you will need a data plan, but then if you get a smartphone and you don't get a data plan then you are seriously missing out on the power of your device.

That being said I haven't been bowled over by the 5800 when I've used it. The screen is very narrow, too.

No you do not need a data connection for mapping. Good software like Garmin Mobile XT will come loaded with maps. You don't get the benefit of A-GPS. I personally think that you won't be totally screwed without a data plan.

A GPS receiver by default does NOT use data. It's when you use the A part of AGPS that uses cell tower data to find out where you are. AT&T navigator from what I understand does not include the whole set of maps which is why you need to download as you go and is a subscription based service. To me it's a complete scam.

IMO the 5800 is a pretty good phone and it's a good deal. I don't think it's an iPhone killer but it's pretty well priced. Nokia is really pushing this phone because it's their truly successful touchscreen phone that's selling well. The firmware updates have been really nice, and I believe Nokia will throw a lot more at this phone before it reaches EOL.

I guess, 'Nearly all, with exceptions' wasn't clear enough...

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Nearly all GPS apps that do mapping need a data connection, with some exceptions, so yes, you will need a data plan, but then if you get a smartphone and you don't get a data plan then you are seriously missing out on the power of your device.

That being said I haven't been bowled over by the 5800 when I've used it. The screen is very narrow, too.

No you do not need a data connection for mapping. Good software like Garmin Mobile XT will come loaded with maps. You don't get the benefit of A-GPS. I personally think that you won't be totally screwed without a data plan.

A GPS receiver by default does NOT use data. It's when you use the A part of AGPS that uses cell tower data to find out where you are. AT&T navigator from what I understand does not include the whole set of maps which is why you need to download as you go and is a subscription based service. To me it's a complete scam.

IMO the 5800 is a pretty good phone and it's a good deal. I don't think it's an iPhone killer but it's pretty well priced. Nokia is really pushing this phone because it's their truly successful touchscreen phone that's selling well. The firmware updates have been really nice, and I believe Nokia will throw a lot more at this phone before it reaches EOL.

I guess, 'Nearly all, with exceptions' wasn't clear enough...

Uhmm. Route66, TomTom, Garmin, there's probably others... Oh I forget... the native Nokia Maps (now known as Ovi Maps). These don't require data plans at all. Most GPS software don't require a connection to work. AT&T Navigator and Verizon Navigator is what we're taught to use in the US, so no it's not "nearly all". In the rest of the world, most people use standalone software.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Nearly all GPS apps that do mapping need a data connection, with some exceptions, so yes, you will need a data plan, but then if you get a smartphone and you don't get a data plan then you are seriously missing out on the power of your device.

That being said I haven't been bowled over by the 5800 when I've used it. The screen is very narrow, too.

No you do not need a data connection for mapping. Good software like Garmin Mobile XT will come loaded with maps. You don't get the benefit of A-GPS. I personally think that you won't be totally screwed without a data plan.

A GPS receiver by default does NOT use data. It's when you use the A part of AGPS that uses cell tower data to find out where you are. AT&T navigator from what I understand does not include the whole set of maps which is why you need to download as you go and is a subscription based service. To me it's a complete scam.

IMO the 5800 is a pretty good phone and it's a good deal. I don't think it's an iPhone killer but it's pretty well priced. Nokia is really pushing this phone because it's their truly successful touchscreen phone that's selling well. The firmware updates have been really nice, and I believe Nokia will throw a lot more at this phone before it reaches EOL.

I guess, 'Nearly all, with exceptions' wasn't clear enough...

Uhmm. Route66, TomTom, Garmin, there's probably others... Oh I forget... the native Nokia Maps (now known as Ovi Maps). These don't require data plans at all. Most GPS software don't require a connection to work. AT&T Navigator and Verizon Navigator is what we're taught to use in the US, so no it's not "nearly all". In the rest of the world, most people use standalone software.

Haha, ok, look I'm going to keep this cheery, but you need to back off a little. Nearly ALL phone based nav requires data, regardless of where you live, 'WITH SOME EXCEPTIONS'. For every one you list that doesn't I'll list one that does and an extra one just for laughs.

I'm in the UK and got taught nothing about VZ or AT&T Nav. It just so happens I DO know about it because of industry contacts, so lets keep this civil and not let in denigrate into yet another internet shit fight, OK?

 

[makken]

err I guess I wasn't exactly clear -- I was asking if using the GPS required an _additional_ data plan. As in a plan specifically for receiving GPS data beyond the normal data (internet) plan.

However digging a bit deeper, it appears that GPS data is 1 way -- I (wrongfully) assumed that the phone would be transmitting to the GPS satellites to triangulate position and that I would require a seperate subscription for the satellites to respond to me, but this isn't how it works.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Nearly all GPS apps that do mapping need a data connection, with some exceptions, so yes, you will need a data plan, but then if you get a smartphone and you don't get a data plan then you are seriously missing out on the power of your device.

That being said I haven't been bowled over by the 5800 when I've used it. The screen is very narrow, too.

No you do not need a data connection for mapping. Good software like Garmin Mobile XT will come loaded with maps. You don't get the benefit of A-GPS. I personally think that you won't be totally screwed without a data plan.

A GPS receiver by default does NOT use data. It's when you use the A part of AGPS that uses cell tower data to find out where you are. AT&T navigator from what I understand does not include the whole set of maps which is why you need to download as you go and is a subscription based service. To me it's a complete scam.

IMO the 5800 is a pretty good phone and it's a good deal. I don't think it's an iPhone killer but it's pretty well priced. Nokia is really pushing this phone because it's their truly successful touchscreen phone that's selling well. The firmware updates have been really nice, and I believe Nokia will throw a lot more at this phone before it reaches EOL.

I guess, 'Nearly all, with exceptions' wasn't clear enough...

Uhmm. Route66, TomTom, Garmin, there's probably others... Oh I forget... the native Nokia Maps (now known as Ovi Maps). These don't require data plans at all. Most GPS software don't require a connection to work. AT&T Navigator and Verizon Navigator is what we're taught to use in the US, so no it's not "nearly all". In the rest of the world, most people use standalone software.

Haha, ok, look I'm going to keep this cheery, but you need to back off a little. Nearly ALL phone based nav requires data, regardless of where you live, 'WITH SOME EXCEPTIONS'. For every one you list that doesn't I'll list one that does and an extra one just for laughs.

I'm in the UK and got taught nothing about VZ or AT&T Nav. It just so happens I DO know about it because of industry contacts, so lets keep this civil and not let in denigrate into yet another internet shit fight, OK?

Not nearly all phone based navigation requires internet. I really don't understand what you're talking about. Pretty much all S60 based phones by Nokia are Nokia or Ovi Maps compatible. Most of them come preloaded with Nokia Maps in fact. This is completely free of charge. You can get the maps free of charge. GPS communication is inherently free.

You would only need the data IF you wanted to activate the A-GPS functions where you couple cell tower triangulation with GPS.

Seriously, this is like asking if directory service costs money. You can say yes because a 411 call costs money, but you can also dial for 1800FREE411 or 1800GOOG411 which are completely free and equivalent. So yes, you can pay using your GPS and I'm sure you can name a bunch that require internet access to do it, but when there's options out there that don't require internet options and they're big players in the GPS industry (i.e. Route66, Tom Tom, Garmin). I wouldn't jump into saying that nearly all phone based navigation requires data. I think the more correct term is that you can play it both ways, and it seems the better navigation options out there (solely on navigation performance) can function WITH or WITHOUT a data connection.

Maybe the information you've been exposed to dictates most people require internet with their GPS, but from my understanding and frequent chat at S60 forums on HowardForums, the solutions most people use there take advantage of cell tower triangulation which use a data plan, but can function pretty much the same WITHOUT a data plan. Most people just happen to use internet because it's a smartphone anyway, but can get away using GPS without internet.

Originally posted by: makken
err I guess I wasn't exactly clear -- I was asking if using the GPS required an _additional_ data plan. As in a plan specifically for receiving GPS data beyond the normal data (internet) plan.

However digging a bit deeper, it appears that GPS data is 1 way -- I (wrongfully) assumed that the phone would be transmitting to the GPS satellites to triangulate position and that I would require a seperate subscription for the satellites to respond to me, but this isn't how it works.

Yup, you got it. The use of GPS satellite navigation is inherently free. Nokia pulled v30? AFAIK some people are still installing it but perhaps it's because they're downloading it from 3rd party sites. They might be fixing a couple things here and there, but don't worry. Even N95-4 NAM users got a firmware update this year. They thought Nokia totally ditched this phone in support because the rest of the world got v30 on N95 many months ago. September 08 maybe? I wouldn't worry too much about the 5800 support being lost just yet. Nokia's counting on the 5800 platform being carried into the X6.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Nearly all GPS apps that do mapping need a data connection, with some exceptions, so yes, you will need a data plan, but then if you get a smartphone and you don't get a data plan then you are seriously missing out on the power of your device.

That being said I haven't been bowled over by the 5800 when I've used it. The screen is very narrow, too.

No you do not need a data connection for mapping. Good software like Garmin Mobile XT will come loaded with maps. You don't get the benefit of A-GPS. I personally think that you won't be totally screwed without a data plan.

A GPS receiver by default does NOT use data. It's when you use the A part of AGPS that uses cell tower data to find out where you are. AT&T navigator from what I understand does not include the whole set of maps which is why you need to download as you go and is a subscription based service. To me it's a complete scam.

IMO the 5800 is a pretty good phone and it's a good deal. I don't think it's an iPhone killer but it's pretty well priced. Nokia is really pushing this phone because it's their truly successful touchscreen phone that's selling well. The firmware updates have been really nice, and I believe Nokia will throw a lot more at this phone before it reaches EOL.

I guess, 'Nearly all, with exceptions' wasn't clear enough...

Uhmm. Route66, TomTom, Garmin, there's probably others... Oh I forget... the native Nokia Maps (now known as Ovi Maps). These don't require data plans at all. Most GPS software don't require a connection to work. AT&T Navigator and Verizon Navigator is what we're taught to use in the US, so no it's not "nearly all". In the rest of the world, most people use standalone software.

Haha, ok, look I'm going to keep this cheery, but you need to back off a little. Nearly ALL phone based nav requires data, regardless of where you live, 'WITH SOME EXCEPTIONS'. For every one you list that doesn't I'll list one that does and an extra one just for laughs.

I'm in the UK and got taught nothing about VZ or AT&T Nav. It just so happens I DO know about it because of industry contacts, so lets keep this civil and not let in denigrate into yet another internet shit fight, OK?

Not nearly all phone based navigation requires internet. I really don't understand what you're talking about. Pretty much all S60 based phones by Nokia are Nokia or Ovi Maps compatible. Most of them come preloaded with Nokia Maps in fact. This is completely free of charge. You can get the maps free of charge. GPS communication is inherently free.

You would only need the data IF you wanted to activate the A-GPS functions where you couple cell tower triangulation with GPS.

Seriously, this is like asking if directory service costs money. You can say yes because a 411 call costs money, but you can also dial for 1800FREE411 or 1800GOOG411 which are completely free and equivalent. So yes, you can pay using your GPS and I'm sure you can name a bunch that require internet access to do it, but when there's options out there that don't require internet options and they're big players in the GPS industry (i.e. Route66, Tom Tom, Garmin). I wouldn't jump into saying that nearly all phone based navigation requires data. I think the more correct term is that you can play it both ways, and it seems the better navigation options out there (solely on navigation performance) can function WITH or WITHOUT a data connection.

Maybe the information you've been exposed to dictates most people require internet with their GPS, but from my understanding and frequent chat at S60 forums on HowardForums, the solutions most people use there take advantage of cell tower triangulation which use a data plan, but can function pretty much the same WITHOUT a data plan. Most people just happen to use internet because it's a smartphone anyway, but can get away using GPS without internet.

:Facepalm: You typed all that to say the same thing as I did in my OP. /golfclap

I'm out, you're a brick wall.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

:Facepalm: You typed all that to say the same thing as I did in my OP. /golfclap

I'm out, you're a brick wall.

All your posts here talk about how almost everyone uses internet with GPS or that almost all navigation requires internet, etc etc. I'm telling you it DOESN'T, and a HUGE number of people don't NEED internet to use GPS navigation.

It's like you're telling people they need to pay for searching on the internet. I'm sure there's stuff you can pay for to search... like paid Newsgroup searches, but the giant Google is free.

Just like the giant Garmin Mobile XT and Tom Tom are fine to use WITHOUT data. I'm just trying to steer the OP in the right direction. Most people are completely uninformed when it comes to GPS navigation on their phones. It's not NEARLY ALL.

It's more like: Almost all turn-by-turn GPS navigation software on phones DO NOT require an active data connection. Certain ones do, but for pretty much all smartphones that I'm familiar with (iPhone, S60, Windows Mobile), there are MULTIPLE solutions out there that DO NOT require a data connection.

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Nearly all GPS apps that do mapping need a data connection, with some exceptions, so yes, you will need a data plan,

You repeated that 5 times. I told you just as many time it's not NEARLY ALL. Nearly all is a term to describe something like 90% or 95%. I wouldn't say 95% of solutions out there require internet connection. It's more like some or few require internet connections. Stick to your Blackberry expertise as your profile indicates. I can handle the S60 phones like OP is asking.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

:Facepalm: You typed all that to say the same thing as I did in my OP. /golfclap

I'm out, you're a brick wall.

All your posts here talk about how almost everyone uses internet with GPS or that almost all navigation requires internet, etc etc. I'm telling you it DOESN'T, and a HUGE number of people don't NEED internet to use GPS navigation.

It's like you're telling people they need to pay for searching on the internet. I'm sure there's stuff you can pay for to search... like paid Newsgroup searches, but the giant Google is free.

Just like the giant Garmin Mobile XT and Tom Tom are fine to use WITHOUT data. I'm just trying to steer the OP in the right direction. Most people are completely uninformed when it comes to GPS navigation on their phones. It's not NEARLY ALL.

It's more like: Almost all turn-by-turn GPS navigation software on phones DO NOT require an active data connection. Certain ones do, but for pretty much all smartphones that I'm familiar with (iPhone, S60, Windows Mobile), there are MULTIPLE solutions out there that DO NOT require a data connection.

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Nearly all GPS apps that do mapping need a data connection, with some exceptions, so yes, you will need a data plan,

You repeated that 5 times. I told you just as many time it's not NEARLY ALL. Nearly all is a term to describe something like 90% or 95%. I wouldn't say 95% of solutions out there require internet connection. It's more like some or few require internet connections. Stick to your Blackberry expertise as your profile indicates. I can handle the S60 phones like OP is asking.

You're making up a load a BS to support a weak argument. HUGE numbers of people use local map based nav on their mobile phones? BS! Back it up or back off!

Maybe you're right, maybe S60 has three Nav apps that have local maps, but maybe my advice was not platform specific. Now that as maybe, it appears we BOTH got the question from the OP wrong.

You're welcome to S60 though, FWIW. :laugh:

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
You're making up a load a BS to support a weak argument. HUGE numbers of people use local map based nav on their mobile phones? BS! Back it up or back off!

Maybe you're right, maybe S60 has three Nav apps that have local maps, but maybe my advice was not platform specific. Now that as maybe, it appears we BOTH got the question from the OP wrong.

You're welcome to S60 though, FWIW. :laugh:

Ok, Nokia includes Nokia Maps on most of its phones with GPS support. The 5800 is one of them. The N97, N86, N85, N82, N95, N86 all have Nokia maps. So do the E71, E72, E75. There's probably a lot more. Samsung's Omnia HD includes Route66 and in fact a lot of Samsung phones includes their navi software which is based off of Route66.

So yes it has local map based navigation. Like I said, where you're from maybe not a lot of people use local map based navigation or whatever. S60 forums on HowardForums shows that a lot of discussion about GPS use is highlighted around local map based solutions.

And once again for you to go saying how "nearly all" solutions require data is completely incorrect. There are solutions for both, and I wouldn't say "nearly all" is the correct term. Why don't you look at the discussion for the iPhone GPS. A lot of the solutions there are clearly local map based as well.

http://howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1263673 - A good number of people here are asking if they don't have a data plan. You can see the responses saying that if you choose to use the assisted portion of the A-GPS, then you will need data, but you can still get a satellite fix w/o. There are TONS of videos showing pure GPS performance on Nokia N-series phones using Garmin or Nokia maps to evaluate GPS lock time and GPS signal performance

Anyway, to the OP, I hope you will find a good phone for yourself and if you've already gotten the 5800, I hope you find it suitable for your needs. Let me know how it goes. Maybe I can buckle down and buy me a S60v5 phone finally.

 

[DivideBYZero]

He's not even got an S60 device yet, hence my reply wasn't focused upon that platform. Christ. The iPhone has lots of local maps stuff? Tom Tom and what else? Yeah.