Clinton Rebukes Israel for Housing Announcement

[kylebisme]

I'm fine with tolerating them, but it would be nice if we could stop stuffing our media and congress full of them.

 

[Noobtastic]

So you admit that the responses are just propaganda?

Typical response. Facts and figures that demolish that hyper-narrative of pallywood trolls is simply condemned with buzzwords and name-calling.

why? because you are out of touch with reality and cannot support your blind support for israel's enemies without demonization rhetoric.

you probably cant even find israel on a map.

You and your fellow Zionist propagandists perspective is colored by an extreme bias towards one side. For an example in regard to the topic of this thread; can you even get IHateViruses to acknowledge the fact that East Jerusalem is Palestinian territory? Can you even admit it yourself?

East Jerusalem is not "Palestinian territory."

Article 24: This Organization does not exercise any territorial sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, on the Gaza Strip or in the Himmah Area. Its activities will be on the national popular level in the liberational, organizational, political and financial fields.

original Palestinian Charter:

http://www.un.int/palestine/PLO/PNA2.html

Palestinians never had sovereignty over any inch of Jerusalem. Jordan captured East Jerusalem in 1948, annexed it (UN said nothing and Britain recognized it as legal), evicted the Jewish residents and destroyed the Jewish quarter. No one referred to the land as "Palestinian territory" any attempts at Palestinian nationalism was crushed by the Jordanians and Egyptians.

After 1967, the Arabs lost a significant amount of land. Egypt and Jordan relinquished their claims to the WB and Gaza and then dubiously "gave" it to the PLO, even though the PLO never had claims to the land.

even after 1967 the idea that any part of jerusalem was inherently "palestinian" was trouble considering it was never the capital of any historic palestine.

arafat was egyptian, after all.

the idea that half of jerusalem is now "palestinian territory" is a product of UN imperialism and oil politics. had israel been defeated, jerusalem, the WB, and gaza would be divied up between jordan, syria, and egypt and no so-called palestinian entity.

this is why it is so difficult for the palestinians to create a state, because they never had one in the first place.

i find it incredibly racist that people are upset that jews live in jerusalem when jews were an overwhelming majority well into the 1930s. and much of today's jerusalem palestinian residents were born in the WB, not modern israel.

i personally could not care less about jerusalem and if the palestinian want the parts that are majority-arab so be it, but this specific area was historically jewish and would remain under israel sovereignty in any future palestinian state.

so for obama to condemn israel for doing something it already said it would do - which was supported by clinton and bush 2, merely demonstrates is ignorance and lack of understanding.

or perhaps he knows exactly what he is doing and is just trying to win favor with the muslims by sandbagging israel.

 

[kylebisme]

East Jerusalem is not "Palestinian territory."

It most certainly is, and neither the PLO Charter pointing out the fact that their territory was under occupation by foreign powers or any of your other ridiculous arguments does anything to change that, particularly not the ones which are flagrantly false. That said, the UN could change the status of East Jerusalem by stepping up to their plan to administer the city as an international zone as proposed in the Partition Plan, but until then it remains legally Palestinian territory as recognized in the League of Nations Mandate.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Palestine as a territory to the League of Nations does not equate to the Palestinians and their claims of statehood.

Palestine was intended to be for the Jewish people without forcing out the Arabs.

The League intended to control the holy sites. There is nothing about the city itself.

Then you have the seperation of Palestine territory into Israel and the Arab area that the Arab nations were supposed to control.

The Arab nations chose to not control those areas and Israel took control.

There is the British Mandate from the League of Nations (which you have referenced)
There is Jordan from '48 until '67 (as an adminstrator)
There is Israel from '67 to present. (Controling the original Palestine/British Mandate)

Where is the so called Palestinian control of those lands within any timeline?

 

[kylebisme]

Palestine as a territory to the League of Nations....

Palestinian territory is what we were talking about, specifically in regard to legal right to the portion of that territory which is East Jerusalem.

Palestine was intended to be for the Jewish people...

Part of it was, and became so under the UN Partition Plan, not the part we are talking about here though. Again, the part we are talking about here is Palestinian territory, and neither Israel's attempt to annex it now or Jordon's attempt previously have any legal basis.

 

[Lemon law]

Well it looks like I may have been wrong about Obama b4eing afraid to take on the pro-Israeli lobby. The Obama administration is now taking a very firm stand against Israel's intention to build in East Jerusalem.

The George Mitchell planned trip is now canceled, Simon Peres is now warning Israeli leaders on the seriousness of ignoring Obama, Netanyuhu has a gag order on Israeli officials regarding discussing the issue, Netanyuhu is seemingly playing for time, while Palestinians are demonstrating in protest in various places.

So the question may become, Israel goes ahead with construction, will Obama ramp up the pressure or wimp out. The answer could come in one of two ways. (1) A canceling of US foreign aid to Israel. (2) The US could simply not veto UN resolutions against Israel, and with the Goldstone report and possible sanctions still hanging, it could open a floodgate of other UN resolutions aimed at Israel.

The land captured by Israel in the 1967 war, which includes all of East Jerusalem, cannot be retained by Israel under the terms of the UN charter.