Clinton Era Tax Break May Have Helped Cause Housing Bubble

winnar111

Banned
Mar 10, 2008
2,847
0
0
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12...siness/19tax.html?_r=1


?Tonight, I propose a new tax cut for homeownership that says to every middle-income working family in this country, if you sell your home, you will not have to pay a capital gains tax on it ever ? not ever.?

Ryan J. Wampler had never made much money selling his own homes.

Starting in 1999, however, he began to do very well. Three times in eight years, Mr. Wampler ? himself a home builder and developer ? sold his home in the Phoenix area, always for a nice profit. With prices in Phoenix soaring, he made almost $700,000 on the three sales.

And thanks to a tax break proposed by President Bill Clinton and approved by Congress in 1997, he did not have to pay tax on most of that profit. It was a break that had not been available to generations of Americans before him. The benefits also did not apply to other investments, be they stocks, bonds or stakes in a small business. Those gains were all taxed at rates of up to 20 percent.

The different tax treatments gave people a new incentive to plow ever more money into real estate, and they did so. ?When you give that big an incentive for people to buy and sell homes,? said Mr. Wampler, 44, a mild-mannered native of Phoenix who has two children, ?they are going to buy and sell homes.?

By itself, the change in the tax law did not cause the housing bubble, economists say. Several other factors ? a relaxation of lending standards, a failure by regulators to intervene, a sharp decline in interest rates and a collective belief that house prices could never fall ? probably played larger roles.

But many economists say that the law had a noticeable impact, allowing home sales to become tax-free windfalls. A recent study of the provision by an economist at the Federal Reserve suggests that the number of homes sold was almost 17 percent higher over the last decade than it would have been without the law.

Vernon L. Smith, a Nobel laureate and economics professor at George Mason University, has said the tax law change was responsible for ?fueling the mother of all housing bubbles.?

By favoring real estate, the tax code pushed many Americans to begin thinking of their houses more as an investment than as a place to live. It helped change the national conversation about housing. Not only did real estate look like a can?t-miss investment for much of the last decade, it was also a tax-free one.

Together with the other housing subsidies that had already been in the tax code ? the mortgage-interest deduction chief among them ? the law gave people a motive to buy more and more real estate. Lax lending standards and low interest rates then gave people the means to do so.

Referring to the special treatment for capital gains on homes, Charles O. Rossotti, the Internal Revenue Service commissioner from 1997 to 2002, said: ?Why insist in effect that they put it in housing to get that benefit? Why not let them invest in other things that might be more productive, like stocks and bonds??

The provision ? part of a sprawling bill called the Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997 ? exempted most home sales from capital-gains taxes. The first $500,000 in gains from any home sale was exempt from taxes for a married couple, as long as they had lived in the home for at least two of the previous five years. (For singles, the first $250,000 was exempt.)

Mr. Wampler said he never sold a home simply because of the law?s existence, but it played a role in his decisions and also became part of his stock pitch to potential customers who were considering buying the homes he was building in the desert. He would point out that the tax benefits would increase their returns on a house, relative to stocks.

?Why not put your money on the highest-yielding investment with the highest tax benefit?? he said recently.

During the boom years, he prospered. But today he owns 80 acres of land on the outskirts of Phoenix that he cannot sell. He owes $8 million to his banks, which may soon foreclose on his land.

?I am literally dying on the vine,? he said.

The change in the tax law had its roots in a Chicago speech that Senator Bob Dole, Mr. Clinton?s Republican opponent in the 1996 presidential election, gave on Aug. 5 of that year. Trailing Mr. Clinton in the polls, Mr. Dole came out for an enormous tax cut, including an across-the-board reduction in the capital-gains tax.

The proposal made Mr. Clinton?s political advisers more nervous than almost anything else during the campaign. The campaign?s chief spokesman, Joe Lockhart, traveled to Chicago to stand outside the ballroom where Mr. Dole was speaking and make the case that the Dole tax cut would cause the deficit to soar.

At the same time, Mr. Clinton?s aides began scrambling to come up with their own tax proposal. Dick Morris, the president?s chief outside political adviser, argued that Mr. Clinton could assure his re-election by matching Mr. Dole?s call for a big cut in the capital-gains tax.




Several presidents have over emphasized home ownership for people with McDonalds jobs when their financial situation doesn't merit a home. Hopefully this trend will not continue past 2009 and we get rid of the CRA.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,412
32,996
136
What does a story about a wealthy developer flipping houses and cashing in on a tax break have to do with your commentary? I don't see any connection beyond the fact that both mention housing.

Several presidents have over emphasized home ownership for people with McDonalds jobs when their financial situation doesn't merit a home. Hopefully this trend will not continue past 2009 and we get rid of the CRA.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Nah it was the Dems who for years badgered the banking industry about the "racism" implied in its loan portfolio combined with willingness of underwriting the debt via govt and bondholders and willingness to cash in by everyone from bankers to developers. The bottom line was greed and throwing out the window of standard credit considerations like employment, income, and net worth that lead to bubble.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Fail. All the tax break would have done would be permanently inflate housing prices; since it has no withdrawal, why would it be attractive to run up prices one day and not the next?
 

Slick5150

Diamond Member
Nov 10, 2001
8,760
3
81
This is seriously one of the lamest threads in a series of lame threads started by the OP.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Some of you must have missed the NY Times piece that tried to lay the fault of the housing bubble at Bush's feet. This is obviously just a counter argument.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
This would be more significant if Bush or Republicans in the House and Senate had ever tried to change the law. They apparently agreed with it and had no worries about its long term effects.

It's a bipartisan failure, but most of the blame should go to the administration and its captain who ignored the approaching iceberg for 6+ years.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,137
225
106
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Some of you must have missed the NY Times piece that tried to lay the fault of the housing bubble at Bush's feet. This is obviously just a counter argument.

Oh come on man! You're slacking! Don't give up on your Buddie yet, heck he's still in office you know.

I expected more from you!

 

brencat

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2007
2,170
3
76
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
This would be more significant if Bush or Republicans in the House and Senate had ever tried to change the law. They apparently agreed with it and had no worries about its long term effects.

It's a bipartisan failure, but most of the blame should go to the administration and its captain who ignored the approaching iceberg for 6+ years.
You're right in that it was a BIPARTISAN failure. People like to point out that Bush loved to tout how home ownership reached a new high during his 8 year presidency, but tell me...what president wouldn't have done the same thing?? You think Clinton or Obama wouldn't have? Puleeease.

Bottom line is everyone fell down. No one likes to rock the boat when everyone is making money. And there was plenty of it to go around -- higher property tax assessments for the local townships as prices rose, rich constituents for politicians, mortgages for Wall St. to securitize and sell, and origination fees galore for lenders and brokers.

Now that it's all turning to sh!t, the finger pointing starts. Typical of Americans and the selfish culture we've created for ourselves over the past two decades. Have a look in the fvcking mirror everyone. We did this.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
Clinton, succesful and good president Clinton, has been out of office now for 8 years.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: Slick5150
This is seriously one of the lamest threads in a series of lame threads started by the OP.

... and that is saying a lot. The OP is possibly the least informed person posting here. He gets fwd.fwd.fwd emails and feels compelled to share his new found "truths" with the group without actually knowing a thing about any of the topics he posts. :thumbsdown:
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Some of you must have missed the NY Times piece that tried to lay the fault of the housing bubble at Bush's feet. This is obviously just a counter argument.

If you ever met the truth, it'd be interesting to see what happened.

You are not not even bothering with the pretense that the truth of the argument matters.

The relevant issue for the NY Times article is whether it was true.

The relevant issue for this thread is whether or not it's true.

We're on different planets, it seems, since you don't seem to care a whit about that.
 

LumbergTech

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2005
3,622
1
0
Each piece of what led up to this problem must be examined carefully for the sake of our future as a country. As much as winnar drives me insane with his one sided posting, I think it would be quite ignorant to say that Clinton didn't contribute to this mess.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,716
54,709
136
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Some of you must have missed the NY Times piece that tried to lay the fault of the housing bubble at Bush's feet. This is obviously just a counter argument.

Yeap, and it's a really bad counter argument. But jesus man, look at who the OP is.
 

Eeezee

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2005
9,922
0
76
Originally posted by: classy
Clinton, succesful and good president Clinton, has been out of office now for 8 years.

On that note, it was actually Bush who bears responsibility for the housing bubble popping.

Bush Sr., that is

edit: Breaking news: former president Theodore Roosevelt is responsible for this year's recession!
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
gotta Love winnar111!! Always trying to spin a story against the Dem`s!1
The dude is in a serious phase of total denial!!
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: winnar111
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12...siness/19tax.html?_r=1


?Tonight, I propose a new tax cut for homeownership that says to every middle-income working family in this country, if you sell your home, you will not have to pay a capital gains tax on it ever ? not ever.?

Ryan J. Wampler had never made much money selling his own homes.

Starting in 1999, however, he began to do very well. Three times in eight years, Mr. Wampler ? himself a home builder and developer ? sold his home in the Phoenix area, always for a nice profit. With prices in Phoenix soaring, he made almost $700,000 on the three sales.

And thanks to a tax break proposed by President Bill Clinton and approved by Congress in 1997, he did not have to pay tax on most of that profit. It was a break that had not been available to generations of Americans before him. The benefits also did not apply to other investments, be they stocks, bonds or stakes in a small business. Those gains were all taxed at rates of up to 20 percent.

The different tax treatments gave people a new incentive to plow ever more money into real estate, and they did so. ?When you give that big an incentive for people to buy and sell homes,? said Mr. Wampler, 44, a mild-mannered native of Phoenix who has two children, ?they are going to buy and sell homes.?

By itself, the change in the tax law did not cause the housing bubble, economists say. Several other factors ? a relaxation of lending standards, a failure by regulators to intervene, a sharp decline in interest rates and a collective belief that house prices could never fall ? probably played larger roles.

But many economists say that the law had a noticeable impact, allowing home sales to become tax-free windfalls. A recent study of the provision by an economist at the Federal Reserve suggests that the number of homes sold was almost 17 percent higher over the last decade than it would have been without the law.

Vernon L. Smith, a Nobel laureate and economics professor at George Mason University, has said the tax law change was responsible for ?fueling the mother of all housing bubbles.?

By favoring real estate, the tax code pushed many Americans to begin thinking of their houses more as an investment than as a place to live. It helped change the national conversation about housing. Not only did real estate look like a can?t-miss investment for much of the last decade, it was also a tax-free one.

Together with the other housing subsidies that had already been in the tax code ? the mortgage-interest deduction chief among them ? the law gave people a motive to buy more and more real estate. Lax lending standards and low interest rates then gave people the means to do so.

Referring to the special treatment for capital gains on homes, Charles O. Rossotti, the Internal Revenue Service commissioner from 1997 to 2002, said: ?Why insist in effect that they put it in housing to get that benefit? Why not let them invest in other things that might be more productive, like stocks and bonds??

The provision ? part of a sprawling bill called the Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997 ? exempted most home sales from capital-gains taxes. The first $500,000 in gains from any home sale was exempt from taxes for a married couple, as long as they had lived in the home for at least two of the previous five years. (For singles, the first $250,000 was exempt.)

Mr. Wampler said he never sold a home simply because of the law?s existence, but it played a role in his decisions and also became part of his stock pitch to potential customers who were considering buying the homes he was building in the desert. He would point out that the tax benefits would increase their returns on a house, relative to stocks.

?Why not put your money on the highest-yielding investment with the highest tax benefit?? he said recently.

During the boom years, he prospered. But today he owns 80 acres of land on the outskirts of Phoenix that he cannot sell. He owes $8 million to his banks, which may soon foreclose on his land.

?I am literally dying on the vine,? he said.

The change in the tax law had its roots in a Chicago speech that Senator Bob Dole, Mr. Clinton?s Republican opponent in the 1996 presidential election, gave on Aug. 5 of that year. Trailing Mr. Clinton in the polls, Mr. Dole came out for an enormous tax cut, including an across-the-board reduction in the capital-gains tax.

The proposal made Mr. Clinton?s political advisers more nervous than almost anything else during the campaign. The campaign?s chief spokesman, Joe Lockhart, traveled to Chicago to stand outside the ballroom where Mr. Dole was speaking and make the case that the Dole tax cut would cause the deficit to soar.

At the same time, Mr. Clinton?s aides began scrambling to come up with their own tax proposal. Dick Morris, the president?s chief outside political adviser, argued that Mr. Clinton could assure his re-election by matching Mr. Dole?s call for a big cut in the capital-gains tax.




Several presidents have over emphasized home ownership for people with McDonalds jobs when their financial situation doesn't merit a home. Hopefully this trend will not continue past 2009 and we get rid of the CRA.

CRA had nothing to do with this problem. Almost all of the mortgages in trouble came from non-CRA regulated entities. Furthermore, the CRA mortgages have performed near par to regular prime mortgages.

We all know you polish the right's knob, but do try to do a better job at covering it up. Sucking somebody off like this in the middle of Times Square is quite embarrassing. At least try to hide under the table.
 

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
11,347
2,710
136
Originally posted by: LegendKiller


CRA had nothing to do with this problem. Almost all of the mortgages in trouble came from non-CRA regulated entities. Furthermore, the CRA mortgages have performed near par to regular prime mortgages.

We all know you polish the right's knob, but do try to do a better job at covering it up. Sucking somebody off like this in the middle of Times Square is quite embarrassing. At least try to hide under the table.


Ya know Lossar, he like to throw crap against the wall and hope something will stick, and it never does.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,716
54,709
136
Originally posted by: LegendKiller

CRA had nothing to do with this problem. Almost all of the mortgages in trouble came from non-CRA regulated entities. Furthermore, the CRA mortgages have performed near par to regular prime mortgages.

We all know you polish the right's knob, but do try to do a better job at covering it up. Sucking somebody off like this in the middle of Times Square is quite embarrassing. At least try to hide under the table.

If I'm not mistaken he's tried to make this same attack against the CRA multiple times in the past, only to be utterly owned. He just waits until he thinks people have forgotten and pathetically tries again. It's sort of the Winnar Way!