Climate Change Deniers Using Same Methods as Tobacco Industry, Says Physicist

[Paratus]

So you are arguing we don't understand all the necessary variables, but yet Global Warming must be true!!!!!!

Here's a simpler analogy between Global Warming and modeling the climate:

A glass of ice water in the sun:

What's the temperature of the water 4 hours ~ Is Global Warming occurring?
What's the temperature distribution of the water starting now and propagating forward. ~ How will the climate change in future.

The climate scientist answers the first by saying it will reach steady state with the ambient temperature after the ice melts

He answers the second by saying it requires quite a bit of modeling, experimentation and analysis to determine exactly how the flows of warm and cold water will occur.


The skeptic answers by saying, "Warming! what warming, my glass is still cold and has ice, dumbfuck. In fact before I had 2 pieces of ice and now I have 3! Ice is increasing"

 

[Newell Steamer]

It's official; climate change deniers won't shut up, until people start bursting into flames in front of their eyes,.. or, they themselves start to suffer.

Of course, fixing this won't just involve quitting smoking. In fact, you probably won't be after to fix this, when it gets bad,...

I just wish there was a way to slow down and fix this, before things get terribly out of hand....

 

[Jaskalas]

As has been explained at length in other threads using the current "pause" in surface warming as reason (and the resultant departure from many climate models) to say MMGW is not happening is a seriously flawed conclusion since other indicators (ice mass reduction, sea level rise, etc) continue apace in the expected direction.

This is an argument over how much it's warming. The rate is precisely the point.

 

[K1052]

This is an argument over how much it's warming. The rate is precisely the point.

So your argument is that the energy simply stopped accumulating as quickly? There is no evidence when looking at the oceans for that to be the case.

 

[Jaskalas]

So your argument is that the energy simply stopped accumulating as quickly? There is no evidence when looking at the oceans for that to be the case.

You continue to speak of something else.

Climate Sensitivity is NOT a known variable. Could be 0.3c, could be 5c. People have taken observed warming in the 20th century and blamed it entirely on CO2. Computer models simulate that rate of warming continuing ad infinitum.

The pause proves that is not accurate. They have no idea how much warming CO2 causes, and every day that goes by proves that the rate of warming is LESS than foretold.

 

[glenn1]

It's official; climate change deniers won't shut up, until people start bursting into flames in front of their eyes,.. or, they themselves start to suffer.

Of course, fixing this won't just involve quitting smoking. In fact, you probably won't be after to fix this, when it gets bad,...

I just wish there was a way to slow down and fix this, before things get terribly out of hand....

It's official, climate change supporters won't shut up no matter how often their recommendations are firmly rejected by voters and governments. I predict there will never be another Kyoto type treaty nor any favored policies like carbon taxes introduced in any major economy within our lifetimes.

 

[shira]

If you believe in the debunked "science" of global warming, climate change climate disruption, why the need to convince everyone that they must subscribe to your beliefs? When the Jehovah Witness believers come knocking on my door on the occasional Saturday, I don't answer and they just leave. They are bright enough to not keep pounding on the door or returning over and over and over. Quit trying to force your religious beliefs on me climate disruption fanatics. I'm very happy to let you have your belief, why are you so adamant that I can't have mine? I'm tired of being persecuted for my beliefs.

The fact that you believe that science is religion says everything about just how high the crazy is piled up inside of you.

 

[K1052]

You continue to speak of something else.

Climate Sensitivity is NOT a known variable. Could be 0.3c, could be 5c. People have taken observed warming in the 20th century and blamed it entirely on CO2. Computer models simulate that rate of warming continuing ad infinitum.

The pause proves that is not accurate. They have no idea how much warming CO2 causes, and every day that goes by proves that the rate of warming is LESS than foretold.

I see that in the other thread you have been given extensive explanations about why your myopic conclusions aren't correct. I'm going to save my fingers the wear and tear.

 

[JulesMaximus]

What is really amazing is that the rest of the industrialized world seems to believe the science behind global warming, it is only here in the United Stupid of America where there is so much doubt...

 

[Oldgamer]

Here is the video of what this is "Heat Shield" this was the tactic that tobacco companies used. It was interesting that Morton Downy Jr. ended up recanting after he got throat and lung cancer that he was wrong, and was doing this for money.

 

[boomerang]

What is really amazing is that the rest of the industrialized world seems to believe the science behind global warming, it is only here in the United Stupid of America where there is so much doubt...

Let's assume you're correct, so then...what? What is the goal here? What is the end game? If the U.S. was united in believing, what then?

 

[boomerang]

The fact that you believe that science is religion says everything about just how high the crazy is piled up inside of you.

No, no, no. I never drew a parallel between science and religion. The climate alarmists are behaving in a manner typical of religious zealots. You are the perfect example. Why do you feel that you must repeatedly keep trying to convince everyone here that your beliefs must be universally adopted?

 

[rudder]

What is really amazing is that the rest of the industrialized world seems to believe the science behind global warming, it is only here in the United Stupid of America where there is so much doubt...

We are all stupid because while California experiences a record drought, we deny climate change. Even though through studies have shown that at some points in the last 2000 years (before automobiles and coal energy), California has experienced droughts that have lasted two centuries. Yet we are stupid because we all don't believe the manipulated data that has been flowing out of the global warming climate change camps.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Look at who invested heavily in the companies that will deal with the carbon tax credits and then look at who is lobbying the heaviest for climate change laws. Always, always, always follow the money to find the truth.

 

[Greenman]

Global warming threads are getting pretty old. Maybe it's time to have a climate change forum where we can regurgitate the same arguments a thousand times a day.
Perhaps we could streamline the process by having the now standardized arguments stickied and numbered. Then we could simply post our selected number in the thread of our choice. We could expand it into name calling and insults to really make it flow like a P&N weather thread. Collectively, we'd save hundreds of hours a month, and the discussion would be every bit as productive as it is right now.

 

[xBiffx]

Global warming threads are getting pretty old. Maybe it's time to have a climate change forum where we can regurgitate the same arguments a thousand times a day.
Perhaps we could streamline the process by having the now standardized arguments stickied and numbered. Then we could simply post our selected number in the thread of our choice. We could expand it into name calling and insults to really make it flow like a P&N weather thread. Collectively, we'd save hundreds of hours a month, and the discussion would be every bit as productive as it is right now.

With the additional benefit of cutting down on energy use. Everyone is happy. :thumbsup:

 

[Paratus]

Global warming threads are getting pretty old. Maybe it's time to have a climate change forum where we can regurgitate the same arguments a thousand times a day.
Perhaps we could streamline the process by having the now standardized arguments stickied and numbered. Then we could simply post our selected number in the thread of our choice. We could expand it into name calling and insults to really make it flow like a P&N weather thread. Collectively, we'd save hundreds of hours a month, and the discussion would be every bit as productive as it is right now.

You'd have to add sub forums for gay rights, gun control, abortion, etc. Then it's no longer ATP&N it's reddit.

 

[sandorski]

It's official; climate change deniers won't shut up, until people start bursting into flames in front of their eyes,.. or, they themselves start to suffer.

Of course, fixing this won't just involve quitting smoking. In fact, you probably won't be after to fix this, when it gets bad,...

I just wish there was a way to slow down and fix this, before things get terribly out of hand....

Nah. What they will say then is, "Holy fucking shit! Jesus is back and he's pissed!!!"

 

[sandorski]

What is really amazing is that the rest of the industrialized world seems to believe the science behind global warming, it is only here in the United Stupid of America where there is so much doubt...

No offense intended, but outside of North Korea, Americans are probably the most Propagandized people on the planet.

 

[Jaskalas]

Let's assume you're correct, so then...what? What is the goal here? What is the end game? If the U.S. was united in believing, what then?

There's literally no way to divest human existence from CO2 emissions without steady research and development into solar and nuclear. Perhaps in a hundred, or two hundred years we can have a solid grasp on that divestment.

There is no forcible solution. Only time and research can solve this.

 

[GaiaHunter]

So your argument is that the energy simply stopped accumulating as quickly? There is no evidence when looking at the oceans for that to be the case.

There is no data record for oceans that allow to draw any scientific conclusion.

The increase of ocean temperature talked about is way smaller than the error bar of the instruments.

The increase of energy that is said to be caused by man made GHG is 0.4w/m2 and our instruments aren't capable of measuring to that precision.

 

[pcsavvy]

I remember in the 70's the claim was the globe was cooling and we were entering an extreme ice age. That Manhattan would be covered with a thick glacier of ice. I remember that Time's cover showing that.

 

[Zaap]

So I guess it's time the Climate Change* Loons use the same advertising as the anti-tobacco lobby?

*Whatever they're calling it this decade.

 

[Zaap]

I remember in the 70's the claim was the globe was cooling and we were entering an extreme ice age. That Manhattan would be covered with a thick glacier of ice. I remember that Time's cover showing that.

I'm waiting until they just get back to calling it "Weather".

Yelling "Weather denier!!" will be such an effective tactic.

 

[Brainonska511]