Originally posted by: fisher
cliffyb is the man.
yeah lol. cliffy b is a sold out panzy man at best.
Originally posted by: fisher
cliffyb is the man.
Originally posted by: skace
Some say WoW / MMOs are the worst thing to happen on PCs. Whatever the case, they prove one thing, the market is there. How many copies has WoW sold? Several million? All of these articles seem to hint at some sort of peak 1.5 million max number of pc gamers which doesn't really exist. The problem is they just can't get PC Gamers attracted to their games.
I wish Steam would put out some sales numbers, some people might change their tunes.
Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: skace
Some say WoW / MMOs are the worst thing to happen on PCs. Whatever the case, they prove one thing, the market is there. How many copies has WoW sold? Several million? All of these articles seem to hint at some sort of peak 1.5 million max number of pc gamers which doesn't really exist. The problem is they just can't get PC Gamers attracted to their games.
I wish Steam would put out some sales numbers, some people might change their tunes.
WoW has 10 mill worldwide users so its sold something like 10 mill copies or at least 10 mill licences
Originally posted by: WicKeD
I played my son's COD4 on his PS3...I can never play an FPS on the PS3 or any other console again. Controls were awkward and did not feel comfortable at all. I will never trade my KB/Mouse for a console.
I understand that the consoles are part of the equation that equlas $$$, but dont make a half ass port of the game for us computer guys because "we will only buy a million" copies.
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: fisher
i hate to say it but pc gaming is becoming a niche these days. i used to be a console hater, but these days my 360 gets a lot more time than my pc does.
Problem is, you grow out of console gaming. You're not going to have an Xbox360 in the living room when you're married and be playing Halo for three hours after work. You're going to come home, handle your business, and toss in an hour of TF2 or WoW while she's getting ready for bed. It's just more convenient and pratical to hop on your computer and check email, check a couple sites, launch a game and play for a bit, check email again, and log off.
Originally posted by: Dumac
I thought it was supposed to be just the opposite. Consoles games are for casualfags who want easy games they can play with a family after work or something.
Originally posted by: skyofavalon
he's not a hater,just a realist.WoW and MMORPGs in general are the worst thing to happen to PC gaming.
Originally posted by: shingletingle
Console games are for casual what????
Originally posted by: BladeVenom
They clearly made UT3 a console game, and everybody knows it. That's a big part of why PC gamers didn't buy.
Originally posted by: TehMac
Meanwhile, Valve thinks PC Gaming is fine. See what's happening? Just because one mediocre gaming making bitch whines doesn't mean anything. Console games still cater to your 12 year olds, and maybe Thraxen is a married 12 year old.
Originally posted by: Modelworks
Say what you want, but pc gaming is in trouble.
Originally posted by: ja1484
Originally posted by: Modelworks
Say what you want, but pc gaming is in trouble.
No it's not.
It's definitely second fiddle to console development for obvious fiduciary reasons, but it's certainly not in trouble.
Originally posted by: Modelworks
Go into ebgames or gamestop and look how much of the shelf space is there for pc games.
Now go back about 5 years to the same stores.
The difference is huge.
Originally posted by: Modelworks
Originally posted by: ja1484
Originally posted by: Modelworks
Say what you want, but pc gaming is in trouble.
No it's not.
It's definitely second fiddle to console development for obvious fiduciary reasons, but it's certainly not in trouble.
Actually it is.
I have worked with over 11 developers in the past 10 years.
There is a radical shift from pc to consoles thats really taken off the last two years.
The reasons why most of them switched are :
1.) Ease of development, target hardware all the same.
2.) Larger installed base, more customers.
3.) Less piracy and more profit.
Go into ebgames or gamestop and look how much of the shelf space is there for pc games.
Now go back about 5 years to the same stores.
The difference is huge.
Add up the income from consoles and compare that with game income from pc game sales.
Consoles in 2007 brought in $8.8 billion , pc brought in $790 million.
As a developer, which is a business, which one would you want to get your share of ?
PC gaming is on the decline. Its going to take more than a A+ title every 6 months to bring it back to where it was.
Will it go away ? NO.
Will we see fewer and fewer pc dedicated titles ?
Yes
Games require more development time and staff than ever before and that equates to money. Money you have to get from publishers. Publishers that want a part of that $8 billion.
I don't own a single console myself, because I like the pc better.
But I am starting to see titles on the consoles that I wouldn't mind playing and that I know will never see the pc.
Originally posted by: ja1484
First of all, the "platform wars", ESPECIALLY the console v PC debate, is long dead and is no longer relevant. What's more, the PC won.
Modern consoles ARE PCs. How people fail to realize this is beyond me. Both Microsoft and Sony's latest game machines are rocking:
- Multiple Cores
- Dedicated graphics hardware
- RAM
- Optical Drives
- Internet/Digital Media capability
They are PCs now for christ sakes, and frankly if they'd just get some decent firmware in there allowing the use of a USB keyboard/mouse for shooter titles and RTS games, I would jump the fence and never look back. It's MUCH easier for developers to debug on three different hardware platforms than the wild jungle of DIY PC Configurations. Even so, the complicated hardware is causing its share of PC-like problems, such as the RRoD on the 360.
It was the only logical choice really. Consoles reached a point near the last cartridge-driven systems where the only way to progress the games was to embrace more and more PC-like technology, because all the innovation was being done there on the hardware end. Console makers don't want or need hardware innovation (Blu-Ray is another discussion unique to Sony's strategy), they need bulk refined hardware at lowish cost. They can get this easily from last year's PC tech.
The current gen of consoles are closed-box PCs sold at a loss with the goals of simplicity and purpose-specific function.
Think about how impractical it is to game the on PC these days - the cost is massive, the development is harder and harder every year largely due to Q/A costs and post-release support. Consoles, especially with the advent of HDTV and online abilities, make far far more sense for far far less cents.
As noted, all they have to do get me a mouse and keyboard with full support on the consoles, and I doubt I'll ever game on the PC again. I'd still have one, because I use it for a hell of a lot more than gaming, but that would cease to be a *needed function* of any PC I built. The console would have assimilated all the PCs gaming advantages and eliminated its drawbacks. Not to mention the decreased cost. I am A-OK with all three.
Originally posted by: ja1484
Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
how about develop for both and sell 4.5 mil copies? develop for pc simultaneously, not release a shitty ass port.
They do, but:
First of all, you don't develop for both simultaneously because that drives up cost. The smart development company just builds an engine/SDK that allows them to compile content into the proper form for all three platforms depending on which button they push.
Which is, of course, exactly what Epic Games did with the Unreal 3 tech, and is a large reason why their tech has been so successful in the licensing arena. Developers can have a single team develop content, just as before, and then "cook" it for compatibility on whichever platform(s) they want to launch on. Minimize cost, maximize revenue.
Given the emphasis on multi-platform launches and the expense of game development these days, its no wonder the tech took off like a rocket.
I agree, it'd be nice if developers took a month or so to rewire the control/HUD screens to be a little more PC friendly, but in all honesty I doubt that kind of thing affects sales to a great degree, so (as we've seen evidenced time and again) they generally think of that sort of work as "optional".
Originally posted by: UTFan81
Originally posted by: Modelworks
Go into ebgames or gamestop and look how much of the shelf space is there for pc games.
Now go back about 5 years to the same stores.
The difference is huge.
who even shops at those stores though? Best Buy always seems to have a really nice pc gaming section. People were saying pc gaming was dead 5 years ago but there is still too many decent games for me to ever play on the market.
Originally posted by: ja1484
[I will repeat: PC Gaming is not in trouble. It is definitely SECOND FIDDLE TO CONSOLE GAMES FOR FIDUCIARY REASONS, but it's certainly not in trouble.
Less PC-exclusive titles doesn't mean PC gaming is in trouble. That's like saying PlayStation gaming was in trouble when Final Fantasy decided to launch on Microsoft's platform as well. Bioshock, for example, was one of the most enjoyable titles I played this year, and was of course developed console-centric.
Originally posted by: Modelworks
What do you think people will play when all the pc titles become ports ?
Steams numbers are from multiple titles.Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Originally posted by: Modelworks
What do you think people will play when all the pc titles become ports ?
Now that's a stupid question.
Valve has 15 Million subscribers. (Where's the console game that can match that?)
WoW has 10 Million subscribers, and made over a Billion dollars last year. (Where's the console game that can match that?)
The Sims sold over 70 million boxes. (Where's the console game that can match that?)
Even Crysis sold over a million games.
Currently Sins of a Solar Empire is selling well. Not bad for a small budget game.
1. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare?Activision?Xbox 360?330.9K
2. Wii Play w/ remote?Nintendo?Wii?298.1K
3. Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock w/ guitar?Activision?Wii?239.6K
4. Rock Band special edition bundle?MTV/EA?Xbox 360?183.8K
5. Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock w/ guitar?Activision?Xbox 360?182.7K
6. Super Mario Galaxy?Nintendo?Wii?172K
7. Burnout Paradise?EA?Xbox 360?144.1K
8. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare?Activision?PS3?140K
9. Mario Party?Nintendo?NDS?138.5K
10. Mario and Sonic: Olympic Games?Sega?NDS?133K
Blizzard announced they have over 10 million susbcribers.link Blizzard made over $1.5 billion dollars. No speculation there, just read gaming news. linkWow's numbers have always been highly scpeculative.
The sims came out in 2000, 8 years ago before the pc really started to slide.
Also the 70 million number is the total of the entire franchise,consoles included.
Originally posted by: Modelworks
Keep repeating that to yourself.
Less pc exclusive games is bad for the pc.
Your comparison with final fantasy makes no sense, thats a port , not a exclusive title.
Had they made Final fantasy pc only, then it might make sense.
When you develop for the console you make a game that is based on the consoles strengths, not the pc's. A good example is bioshock.
Bioshock could have been a much better game if it was pc exclusive.
Anyone who can't see that is blind to the facts.
When you develop for a console your severely limited by ram.
You have to optimize for what the hardware can do and how fast you can cache data off the disk. I know, I've dealt with it many many times.
Being told that no, that feature can't be done, because we can't fit it in ram.
Or no, we can't use the larger texture sizes because the hardware doesn't support it.
So what happens is games are developed for the console first, with all its limitations intact.
Then it is ported to the pc. Developers then make the code executeable on the pc, but other limitations in the title remain intact. They don't go back and upgrade textures, or make larger environments. Pc controls are tacked on and its shipped as a pc title.
What do you think people will play when all the pc titles become ports ?
Originally posted by: ja1484
Console games on their consoles and ported titles on their PC. What kind of stupid fucking question is this?
Why WOULD you play games on the PC if a console can deliver the same experience with less Q/A and support headaches? Right now, consoles can't, but if at some indeterminant point in the future they can, and we no longer need the PC for gaming, who gives a shit? The experience *I* receive as the gamer is no different, and I couldn't give less of a damn which platform I'm using.
I'm sure all this stuff matters to people in the industry, because it affects their livelihood, but it's very easy for me, working in another industry, to say "You should've worked in another fucking field."... and so I do. Not my goddam problem if PC Gaming happens to die and somebody out there has to deal with unfortunate consequences.
Originally posted by: Modelworks
Originally posted by: ja1484
Console games on their consoles and ported titles on their PC. What kind of stupid fucking question is this?
Why WOULD you play games on the PC if a console can deliver the same experience with less Q/A and support headaches? Right now, consoles can't, but if at some indeterminant point in the future they can, and we no longer need the PC for gaming, who gives a shit? The experience *I* receive as the gamer is no different, and I couldn't give less of a damn which platform I'm using.
I'm sure all this stuff matters to people in the industry, because it affects their livelihood, but it's very easy for me, working in another industry, to say "You should've worked in another fucking field."... and so I do. Not my goddam problem if PC Gaming happens to die and somebody out there has to deal with unfortunate consequences.
Your not worth the time a reply would take.