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Cliffy B is teh hater.

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ja1484

Platinum Member
Dec 31, 2007
2,438
1
0
Originally posted by: Dumac
Originally posted by: ja1484
The first Halo was really the first true shooter that a console had ever seen, and thus it spread like wildfire.
gb2goldeneye

How in the world would Rome:Total War or CoH would be successful on consoles? You can't use games that require an extremely high number of keys/inputs for proper play. The RTS genre will never be great on a console controller, yet this doesn't make the game 'sophisticated'.

Saying the console audience can't handle 'the intensity, the graphics, and the gameplay' is retarded. The first too are overly ambiguous. What gamer sits down, plays, and then quits from thinking 'Oh, this game is to intense for me." or "I can't handle these graphics." Also, the third points is highly debatable.

The Call of Duty series, and rather, most FPSs in general, something PC gamers seem to cling to, have extremely simplified and straightforward gameplay that is a cinch to handle. In no way do I fault FPSs for this, but you seem to equate complexity of gameplay to the richness of a title's worth, when this is no way true.

There are tons of great games for consoles that are no way dumbed down. Honestly, I haven't played Company of Heroes as I've been busy with work, but I'm sure I would enjoy it. I would, however, also enjoy games I find just as 'sophisticated' which are on the PC. Console games tend to be more developed in other ways that PC games seem to lack now, including art, atmosphere, dialog and other potentially absorbing attributes.

Of course when you look at only gameplay, the PC will seem more complex, simply to the versatility of a kb+m. However, this doesn't necessarily make or break a game. Also, there are some complex console games that I hate to imagine playing on a PC (ex: fighting games in general). I don't think there are enough cons to rule out any gaming platform, which you basically stated.


Ever notice the only people making arguments such as Mac's are folks who haven't branched out into multi-platform gaming?

He speaks from ignorance, because that is all he can speak from.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
28,508
4,150
126
Originally posted by: ja1484

And: You thought Company of Heroes was good? BWAHAHA.
company of heroes was praised nearly universally, and even won RTS of the year from many publications, if i'm not mistaken.

appears that you're in the minority.
 

Thraxen

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2001
4,683
1
81
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Originally posted by: ja1484

And: You thought Company of Heroes was good? BWAHAHA.
company of heroes was praised nearly universally, and even won RTS of the year from many publications, if i'm not mistaken.

appears that you're in the minority.
So was FEAR, but it sucks too. And BioShock was highly praised and I personally love that game, but many here seem to knock it pretty hard (IMO, largely because it has a console port and for no actual good reason).
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,979
3
71
Alright guys...you're all right, I'm very mistaken. The Xbox 360 is the best gaming platform, because its the easiest way for other people to make money milking the same game and selling off graphics for cheap. I will immediately get an xbox 360 and enjoy Halo 3 because that's the best game evaaaaaaaaar! And Gears of War, for sure, definitely much better for the xbox 360. These games have to be so goood because they sold so much guys!!!

BBL g2g get xbox 360.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Originally posted by: Thraxen
So was FEAR, but it sucks too. And BioShock was highly praised and I personally love that game, but many here seem to knock it pretty hard (IMO, largely because it has a console port and for no actual good reason).
Saying CoH sucks is akin to saying "I do not like playing video games". Also, fuck the people who said Bioshock sucks. I honestly don't care if people enjoy a game or not, but when people knock clearly great games it just makes me question their judgment overall. For instance, you won't ever find me going to Pontifex to find out if a game is good before playing it. It would be like going to a blind man to find out how good various TV brands are.

Oh yea, and TehMac is off his rocker with his argument but Gears of War and Halo 3 both suck ass, so I guess theres a bit of truth in every argument.
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,979
3
71
Originally posted by: skaceOh yea, and TehMac is off his rocker with his argument but Gears of War and Halo 3 both suck ass, so I guess theres a bit of truth in every argument.
Why am I off my rocker? I got my xbox 360 and Halo 3 is an amazing guys!! It's got so much bloom, I'm so blinded by the awesomeness of Halo 3!!!111!!1
 

Thraxen

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2001
4,683
1
81
Originally posted by: skace
Saying CoH sucks is akin to saying "I do not like playing video games". Also, fuck the people who said Bioshock sucks. I honestly don't care if people enjoy a game or not, but when people knock clearly great games it just makes me question their judgment overall. For instance, you won't ever find me going to Pontifex to find out if a game is good before playing it. It would be like going to a blind man to find out how good various TV brands are.

Oh yea, and TehMac is off his rocker with his argument but Gears of War and Halo 3 both suck ass, so I guess theres a bit of truth in every argument.
I probably should have left the "too" off there. I didn't really mean to include CoH. But I pretty much despise FEAR and don't get why so many people here love it. Though I have to disagree with you on Gears, I really liked that game. I played both H2 and H3 on the 360 and they were average at best (still better than FEAR!). I think co-op adds a lot to both Gears and Halo... and to any game really. But Halo I wouldn't play by myself otherwise. Honestly though, I think you'll find most people, even on the console side, are fairly ho-hum about the campaign other than the co-op stuff. The people that really like it are there for the MP. Halo is too slow paced for my tastes, I'm fairly old school and prefer the fast paced games like the UT series... But I'd be lying if I said I didn't have fun the few times I went to a party where some Halo MP was going on. Like the campaign, I just don't play the MP when I'm by myself.
 

ja1484

Platinum Member
Dec 31, 2007
2,438
1
0
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Originally posted by: ja1484

And: You thought Company of Heroes was good? BWAHAHA.
company of heroes was praised nearly universally, and even won RTS of the year from many publications, if i'm not mistaken.

appears that you're in the minority.

Wasn't my bag, and I saw nothing special there, but then I've been sick and tired of the whored-out WWII genre since roughly Call of Duty 1. Of course, that's exactly why this discussion ceased to have a point once we left the financial realm - we've wandered into taste and there's no point in continuing this "discussion".
 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
15,425
1
0
I agree with you on FEAR. I didn't get a third of the way through the game when I quit out of sheer boredom. So been there, done that, already wore out the t-shirt. I eventually uninstalled it completely to make way for other games as I don't have any desire to finish it.
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,979
3
71
Originally posted by: ja1484Wasn't my bag, and I saw nothing special there, but then I've been sick and tired of the whored-out WWII genre since roughly Call of Duty 1. Of course, that's exactly why this discussion ceased to have a point once we left the financial realm - we've wandered into taste and there's no point in continuing this "discussion".
CoH isn't unique because of it's story...and yet for some reason, Gears of War and Halo are?


And who cares about finances, yes, lots of tool fanbois out there to exploit with crappy games, and they sell like dead flies on a swatter, that doesn't make the games any better.

And FEAR is just another horror shooter. I don't give a rats ass about that game, PC or console.
 

ja1484

Platinum Member
Dec 31, 2007
2,438
1
0
Originally posted by: TehMac
Originally posted by: ja1484Wasn't my bag, and I saw nothing special there, but then I've been sick and tired of the whored-out WWII genre since roughly Call of Duty 1. Of course, that's exactly why this discussion ceased to have a point once we left the financial realm - we've wandered into taste and there's no point in continuing this "discussion".
CoH isn't unique because of it's story...and yet for some reason, Gears of War and Halo are?

You keep tryin' awful hard to put words in my mouth don't you? Give it up already.

I haven't said anything about game story in this thread. I played a couple hours of CoH on a friends machine before writing it off. It didn't hook me, and thematically it felt tired, as it should. I did enjoy Gears of War (again, on the PC), but story really had basically nothing to do with it. It's a popcorn flick.


 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,979
3
71
Originally posted by: ja1484
Originally posted by: TehMac
Originally posted by: ja1484Wasn't my bag, and I saw nothing special there, but then I've been sick and tired of the whored-out WWII genre since roughly Call of Duty 1. Of course, that's exactly why this discussion ceased to have a point once we left the financial realm - we've wandered into taste and there's no point in continuing this "discussion".
CoH isn't unique because of it's story...and yet for some reason, Gears of War and Halo are?

You keep tryin' awful hard to put words in my mouth don't you? Give it up already.

I haven't said anything about game story in this thread. I played a couple hours of CoH on a friends machine before writing it off. It didn't hook me, and thematically it felt tired, as it should. I did enjoy Gears of War (again, on the PC), but story really had basically nothing to do with it. It's a popcorn flick.
You were complaining about the setting of CoH...how am I putting words in your mouth?
And here you are bitching about it's setting...nobdoy thinks the setting is special, clearly you think it should be, when it sounds like you're all about games like Gears of War. :confused:
 

ja1484

Platinum Member
Dec 31, 2007
2,438
1
0
Originally posted by: TehMac
Originally posted by: ja1484
Originally posted by: TehMac
Originally posted by: ja1484Wasn't my bag, and I saw nothing special there, but then I've been sick and tired of the whored-out WWII genre since roughly Call of Duty 1. Of course, that's exactly why this discussion ceased to have a point once we left the financial realm - we've wandered into taste and there's no point in continuing this "discussion".
CoH isn't unique because of it's story...and yet for some reason, Gears of War and Halo are?

You keep tryin' awful hard to put words in my mouth don't you? Give it up already.

I haven't said anything about game story in this thread. I played a couple hours of CoH on a friends machine before writing it off. It didn't hook me, and thematically it felt tired, as it should. I did enjoy Gears of War (again, on the PC), but story really had basically nothing to do with it. It's a popcorn flick.
You were complaining about the setting of CoH...how am I putting words in your mouth?
And here you are bitching about it's setting...nobdoy thinks the setting is special, clearly you think it should be, when it sounds like you're all about games like Gears of War. :confused:

Yeah, and you said I made some knock on its story, which is completely different from setting. That you can't appreciate that unsubtle difference runs directly in contrast to your false claim of haughty "intellectualism", but I don't think any of us are surprised by that.

And "enjoying" Gears of War is far from being "all about games like Gears of War" (whatever the hell that means).

Here's a mental shocker for you: I enjoy movies as well as video games. Some movies, like Lost in Translation or Children of Men or Oh Brother Where Art Thou, I enjoy for their artistic and intellectual components. Other movies, like The Rock or Snatch or 300, I enjoy because they are a fun ride that does not *force* me to think and interpret when I am already mentally tired from a long day at work or trying to explain sense to a complete idiot on the internet.

This might frighten you, but I also have a fairly broad taste in music and hobbies as well. I'll wait a few minutes while you try to process that.

See, unlike you, I realize that my maximum personal enjoyment will occur when I am able to select the pick of the litter across a number of options. I realize that only by branching out and experiencing all that is offered can I maximize my experience.

If you want to shun some very enjoyable experiences in the name of fanboying for a certain cause, go for it, but instead of providing you the method of looking down your nose at others that you *think* it's providing, it just exposes your shallowness and general naivete.

Now if you don't get it after that, you have no hope at the time being. You can stop repeating your tired mantra over and over, because no one's listening.


 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,979
3
71
Originally posted by: ja1484Yeah, and you said I made some knock on its story which is completely different from setting.
You made a knock on the "genre of the game" which now that I think about it isn't right anyway; the genre of CoH is Real Time Strategy. The setting/story is World War 2. So if you can't communicate properly, maybe that's why people try to figure you out.

which is completely different from setting.
Oh is it? Yeah, World War 2. It has a story and a setting...they happen to be the same. If you have to backtrack and attack something and then try to argue semantics with me, that's not an impressive argument especially considering the circumstances.

That you can't appreciate that unsubtle difference runs directly in contrast to your false claim of haughty "intellectualism", but I don't think any of us are surprised by that.
Thank you for your Ad Homenium logical fallacy, you were complaining about Modelworks attacking you on page 3, I see tables turning right about now...

And "enjoying" Gears of War is far from being "all about games like Gears of War" (whatever the hell that means).
Well weren't you and others like you touting the "numerical superiority" of Gears of Wars copies sold in comparison to similar PC games?


Here's a mental shocker for you: I enjoy movies as well as video games. Some movies, like Lost in Translation or Children of Men or Oh Brother Where Art Thou, I enjoy for their artistic and intellectual components. Other movies, like The Rock or Snatch or 300, I enjoy because they are a fun ride that does not *force* me to think and interpret when I am already mentally tired from a long day at work or trying to explain sense to a complete idiot on the internet.
Thank you for throwing in a red herring, which I might remind you, is a logical fallacy, and under careful and intelligent scrutiny, serves only to undermine your argument.

This might frighten you, but I also have a fairly broad taste in music and hobbies as well. I'll wait a few minutes while you try to process that.
Thank you for more red herrings, keep it up. Did you run out of things to talk about games and so you have to set yourself up as a superior this way?

See, unlike you, I realize that my maximum personal enjoyment will occur when I am able to select the pick of the litter across a number of options. I realize that only by branching out and experiencing all that is offered can I maximize my experience.
Good, because if that were true, you'd be a PC Gamer, where you're able to enjoy a multitude of games of varying degrees of originality and genre, and not just mediocre FPSs and racing games (which I concede are far superior on the console, but this concession hardly constitutes a counterargument against my thesis of "PC gaming for the Intelligent")

If you want to shun some very enjoyable experiences in the name of fanboying for a certain cause, go for it, but instead of providing you the method of looking down your nose at others that you *think* it's providing, it just exposes your shallowness and general naivete.
Hey, you're the one shunning Company of Heroes, which is an experience just about anybody who knows something about the genre or games in general will agree is an actual experience and not just a game with lots of bloom and tits in armor with chainsaws or......tits in armor?

Now if you don't get it after that, you have no hope at the time being. You can stop repeating your tired mantra over and over, because no one's listening.
Well, apparently you're listening because you felt you had to invest time to write this, so thank you for your audience, I hope you give Company of Heroes another try.



 

ja1484

Platinum Member
Dec 31, 2007
2,438
1
0
Originally posted by: TehMac
You made a knock on the "genre of the game" which now that I think about it isn't right anyway; the genre of CoH is Real Time Strategy. The setting/story is World War 2. So if you can't communicate properly, maybe that's why people try to figure you out.
Fair enough. World War 2 setting.


Oh is it? Yeah, World War 2. It has a story and a setting...they happen to be the same. If you have to backtrack and attack something and then try to argue semantics with me, that's not an impressive argument especially considering the circumstances.
No, they're entirely different. Call of Duty 1 and Brothers in Arms have different stories, for example, although there will certainly be similarities due to the backdrop.


Thank you for your Ad Homenium logical fallacy, you were complaining about Modelworks attacking you on page 3, I see tables turning right about now...
I don't think it's an attack if you're just pointing out fact (rimshot). But seriously, it's "Ad Hominem".

Well weren't you and others like you touting the "numerical superiority" of Gears of Wars copies sold in comparison to similar PC games?
Quoting sales figures = being all about a game?

I guess if that's the definition you want to work with...So you're trying to say that in order to understand the financial workings of the videogames industry, you are by default "all about" a game? You know, I also realize that 2+3 = 5 and will state this to other human beings as fact, but I'm hardly "all about" math.

Thank you for throwing in a red herring, which I might remind you, is a logical fallacy, and under careful and intelligent scrutiny, serves only to undermine your argument.

+ more "red herring" nonsense.
The only problem being that it's not a red herring, because it's a very relevant comparison. Games, like music, movies, books, and other examples are popular entertainment media. I'm again astounded that you could miss this obvious connection.

Beyond that, the point is that you are trying to debate personal taste, which varies by individual. The characteristics of a game that appeal to you will not appeal to all other human beings. Your inability to recognize this basic truth is the flaw that undermines your entire position and renders your arguments moot.



Good, because if that were true, you'd be a PC Gamer, where you're able to enjoy a multitude of games of varying degrees of originality and genre, and not just mediocre FPSs and racing games (which I concede are far superior on the console, but this concession hardly constitutes a counterargument against my thesis of "PC gaming for the Intelligent")
You must have missed all those platformers, puzzlers, adventure titles, and other numerous genres that also exist and flourish (and play better) on consoles than on PC.

But then, since you appear intent on limiting yourself, it wouldn't surprise me that your knowledge of what you're attempting to discuss is, shall we say, somewhat limited.

Hey, you're the one shunning Company of Heroes, which is an experience just about anybody who knows something about the genre or games in general will agree is an actual experience and not just a game with lots of bloom and tits in armor with chainsaws or......tits in armor?
Can you read? I ask the question not as a juvenile barb because at this point I am genuinely curious. I already told you I played a few hours of CoH. I did *not* find it fun, and thus I decided not to play any more, and not buy the game. It's not as if I wrote it off without even looking at the box.

I don't know about you, but I do not buy games that I do not consider fun. It's a pity too, because they kind of have something going with their tactical system, and I wouldn't mind seeing them carry it over to a game without CoH's significant drawbacks.


Well, apparently you're listening because you felt you had to invest time to write this, so thank you for your audience, I hope you give Company of Heroes another try.
Again, you must have missed my previous post when I clearly relegated you to sport status, much akin to practice freethrows. And I have no plans to return to Company of Heroes.





 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
6
76
I didn't realize we had so many mind readers .
I'm glad you all could read my mind and tell why I stopped posting.
I stopped because it was a pointless argument.

Not because I can't defend my points , but because I find my time spent better elsewhere.
I'm fine accepting that others may have different views from my own, although some in this thread apparently feel threatened when that occurs.

 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,979
3
71
Originally posted by: ModelworksNot because I can't defend my points , but because I find my time spent better elsewhere.
I'm fine accepting that others may have different views from my own, although some in this thread apparently feel threatened when that occurs.
Yeah, I really see what you mean.

Originally posted by: ja1484
Again, you must have missed my previous post when I clearly relegated you to sport status, much akin to practice freethrows. And I have no plans to return to Company of Heroes.
Point proved. You're running around in circles with an uneducated attitude. You just mitigated your whole point.


Company of Heroes is really a good game though. I don't think you'll find anything like it on the xbox 360. ;)
 

Thraxen

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2001
4,683
1
81
Originally posted by: TehMac
Point proved. You're running around in circles with an uneducated attitude. You just mitigated your whole point.
Uneducated attitude? You're one to be talking. Always making blanket absurd generalizations about console gamers and saying they are all 12-year olds. You make more dumbass posts than anyone else on this forum. It's highly ironic that the person most vocal about the how "mature", "sophisticated", and "intelligent" PC games and gamers are just happens to be the most childish fanboy out of all the posters in the PC and Console gaming forums. You also just talk in circles and almost never make an actual point and then when people get frustrated with you you accuse them of giving up and failing to prove their point.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
Saying Halo sucks is akin to saying "I do not like playing video games". Also, fuck the people who said GoW sucks. I honestly don't care if people enjoy a game or not, but when people knock clearly great games it just makes me question their judgment overall. For instance, you won't ever find me going to Pontifex to find out if a game is good before playing it. It would be like going to a blind man to find out how good various TV brands are.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Originally posted by: Dumac
Saying Halo sucks is akin to saying "I do not like playing video games". Also, fuck the people who said GoW sucks. I honestly don't care if people enjoy a game or not, but when people knock clearly great games it just makes me question their judgment overall. For instance, you won't ever find me going to Pontifex to find out if a game is good before playing it. It would be like going to a blind man to find out how good various TV brands are.
I like how you left the Pontifex part the same, LOL. You may even think that is a valid argument. But I could do this...

"Saying Deer Hunter sucks is akin to saying "I do not like playing video games". Also, fuck the people who said Barbie's Dreamhouse Adventure sucks."

It's easy to swap out the game names, doesn't invalidate the original statement. And while some of it is opinion, there is certainly some fact in how good DeerHunter or Halo actually are. Perspective is everything though, and having grown up on the FPS genre makes some of us a little more refined in our FPS tastes.

Also, while I did say GoW and Halo3 aren't great in reference to TehMac's comment, you won't find me shitting all over these games in their respective threads like my Bioshock comment was referring to.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
Originally posted by: skace
Originally posted by: Dumac
Saying Halo sucks is akin to saying "I do not like playing video games". Also, fuck the people who said GoW sucks. I honestly don't care if people enjoy a game or not, but when people knock clearly great games it just makes me question their judgment overall. For instance, you won't ever find me going to Pontifex to find out if a game is good before playing it. It would be like going to a blind man to find out how good various TV brands are.
I like how you left the Pontifex part the same, LOL. You may even think that is a valid argument. But I could do this...

"Saying Deer Hunter sucks is akin to saying "I do not like playing video games". Also, fuck the people who said Barbie's Dreamhouse Adventure sucks."

It's easy to swap out the game names, doesn't invalidate the original statement. And while some of it is opinion, there is certainly some fact in how good DeerHunter or Halo actually are. Perspective is everything though, and having grown up on the FPS genre makes some of us a little more refined in our FPS tastes.

Also, while I did say GoW and Halo3 aren't great in reference to TehMac's comment, you won't find me shitting all over these games in their respective threads like my Bioshock comment was referring to.
Lol you proved my simple point, in that your comment hand no context or evidence other than you simply stating X game is great and so is X game.

Don't take my comment as my actual opinion however. It will be a blue moon before I ever defend the greatness of the Halo series or GoW.
 

ja1484

Platinum Member
Dec 31, 2007
2,438
1
0
Originally posted by: TehMac
Originally posted by: ja1484
Again, you must have missed my previous post when I clearly relegated you to sport status, much akin to practice freethrows. And I have no plans to return to Company of Heroes.
Point proved. You're running around in circles with an uneducated attitude. You just mitigated your whole point.
What is this? The fifteenth time you've tried to pull that "uneducated" crap? See previous posts for counterpoints. Talk about circles.


Company of Heroes is really a good game though. I don't think you'll find anything like it on the xbox 360. ;)
It may be a perfectly fine game. You still seem to have trouble comprehending that I, myself do not enjoy playing it. Maybe you just don't understand what "opinion" actually means.

As for strategy games in consoles, the concept just makes me laugh.



 

colonel

Golden Member
Apr 22, 2001
1,776
18
81
nowt from these guys has been as good or as popular as the original Unreal and Unreal Tournament(the first one) on PC.
That 's it, Unreal Tournament was the perfect game, created from the errors of Unreal multiplayer , Epic got lucky and survive. Now the whole thing is difference. I personally did not buy the UT# hype because I got bore with the demo...
 

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