Client/Server environment

[f1sh3r]

OK, I need some information here. I know this type of construct is used in lots of institutions and what not.

10 computers. 60 users. each user has username/password with their own storage space. windows xp pro, office, and a few other programs are going to be present on each computer. can i use *nix for the backbone or is this a microsoft venture. this is for a small, relatively cheap organization. there is no time frame yet.

the computers have the following specs:
P4 1.5
256 MB ram
80GB HDD

i know these arent great specs, but i might be able to upgrade. i just need a starting point. information, concepts, links, architectures.

Thanks

 

[futuristicmonkey]

Originally posted by: f1sh3r
OK, I need some information here. I know this type of construct is used in lots of institutions and what not.

10 computers. 60 users. each user has username/password with their own storage space. windows xp pro, office, and a few other programs are going to be present on each computer. can i use *nix for the backbone or is this a microsoft venture. this is for a small, relatively cheap organization. there is no time frame yet.

the computers have the following specs:
P4 1.5
256 MB ram
80GB HDD

i know these arent great specs, but i might be able to upgrade. i just need a starting point. information, concepts, links, architectures.

Thanks

Windows Server 2003 + AD or *nix + Samba/OpenLDAP/

Former wil be expensive, latter will allow you to have more control, if you take the time to learn it

Edit: forget OpenLDAP -- Samba by itself will probably fit the bill, by itself

 

[stash]

Former wil be expensive, latter will allow you to have more control, if you take the time to learn it

Sorry to derail the thread a little, but you have to be joking. Samba/OpenLDAP will give you more control over a bunch of XP workstations running Microsoft Office?

 

[drag]

Samba itself can act as a domain controller.. it has the directory stuff built-in pretty much.

That's the way you want to go when your supporting Windows clients. The current version everybody is using has about the same functionality as somewere between NT and Windows 2000 server with a few of the fancier features. But nothing close to what you can get with Windows 2003.

With Samba 4 they are aiming for a more complete Active Directory replacement, but that's going to take a while for that to stabilise. It's currently in 'technological preview' release.


The plus side with that is that if they want to take a look at Linux desktops in the future this will make thigns much easier then if they went with a Windows server which has a lot of lock-in. (although you can get things fairly integrated with using Samba as a secondary controller)


For a more complete solution for Linux then you can take a look at Novell's eDirectory. They have special deals for small business support and do things similar to Microsoft for things like per seat licensing.

Samba, if you decide to go with Linux should fit the bill very nicely and will run very well (without X running) on a machine like that. Be able to support many dozens of machines. A little more ram wouldn't hurt though.

Now if you decide to go with a Windows server, then obviously Active Directory is the only way to go. Probably with Microsoft's small business server.

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: stash

Former wil be expensive, latter will allow you to have more control, if you take the time to learn it

Sorry to derail the thread a little, but you have to be joking. Samba/OpenLDAP will give you more control over a bunch of XP workstations running Microsoft Office?

No it won't, obviously.

 

[stash]

Originally posted by: drag

Originally posted by: stash

Former wil be expensive, latter will allow you to have more control, if you take the time to learn it

Sorry to derail the thread a little, but you have to be joking. Samba/OpenLDAP will give you more control over a bunch of XP workstations running Microsoft Office?

No it won't, obviously.

Sheesh

But I'm intrigued by your first post. Are they planning on putting group policy like functionality in Samba 4? Or what do you mean by a more complete AD replacement?

For the OP, if you are just looking to set up a file server, Samba is definitely a good option. One thing that wasn't clear to me is whether you plan to use one of the 10 machines as a server, or if you are going to buy a dedicated server. Cause the specs you posted won't really cut it for a server.

 

[drag]

For the OP, if you are just looking to set up a file server, Samba is definitely a good option. One thing that wasn't clear to me is whether you plan to use one of the 10 machines as a server, or if you are going to buy a dedicated server. Cause the specs you posted won't really cut it for a server.

If he adds a bit more ram (for disk cache) and throws in a 500 gig drive or so then it should be fine. Although obviously if you check out Dell's website you can get a small end server with much better specs for dirt cheap.

But I'm intrigued by your first post. Are they planning on putting group policy like functionality in Samba 4? Or what do you mean by a more complete AD replacement?

Well currently you can setup NT-style workgroups, more or less. Supports Netlogin protocol (rather then Kerberos found in AD). Set it up so that you have a domain controller to log into and have a central place for managing users and I beleive things like roaming desktops. There are a few advanced features you can have, like shadow folders (taking advantage of LVM's shadow features) which is compatable with the GUI applications and such you can get (I don't know how stable or usefull it is though. LVM snapshot stuff is fairly new). Supports ACLs (through translating Linux 'posix' extended ACLs to match it. There are a few caveots, but I don't know what they are)


If you want to get very advanced you can go with Samba, Kerberos, OpenLDAP and Winbind for larger things.
(keep in mind that I never realy used this stuff before besides playing around and reading about it. I realy need to take a deeper look at it.)

So that will give you more or less a idea were Samba 3 is at now.

Now with Samba 4 it is currently a sort of technological play ground. They have several plans for it..
One big thing for Linux users is that they want to turn CIFS into a 'native' network protocol for Linux. Detect weither or not both client and server are Linux and then bypass windows compatability stuff for better performance and higher file system level compatability. Make it suitable for shared home directories and network booting.

Now on the Active Directory side I know less.

but this article gives a pretty good overview:
http://www.zdnetasia.com/toolkits/0,39047352,39353602-39094244p,00.htm

Most of it will stem from having proper kerberos-based login support for windows clients with Microsoft's extension to that.
Along with the normal functionality upgrades you expect between major revisions of software. It's a pretty big change.

 

[drag]

oh here is a little howto for Ubuntu-based domain controller using Samba.
http://www.howtoforge.com/samba_setup_ubuntu_5.10

It's for 'Breezy', so it's a bit obsolete (current server version of Ubuntu is 'Dapper').


Keep in mind though for the easiest setup it's still going to be MS SBS

 

[f1sh3r]

I would expect to get a seperate server. Not use one of the workstations. I have some knowledge of linux in that ive used ubuntu for about 1.5 years and tried some other distros. I've never played with and MS server OSes.

This is actually for a small private school. Right now it is a mess. They have a 16 port switch that connects the entire school. Computer labs and staff alike. There are more than 16 computers so some just sit on desks unused. bah.

The secretary, principle, and teachers have shared folders on all of their computers that can be accessed by all of the students or anyone else on the network. Students have fiels spread all over the network on multiple computers.

What im getting out of this is "MS SBS with Active Directory" Ill look into this more when im a lil more sober. gnite.

 

[drag]

Personally I'd stil prefer Linux

 

[f1sh3r]

I would definitely like to use Linux for cost reasons. Anybody know what the cost would be for MS SBS w/ 60 users? They do charge per connection, right?

Here is a rundown of what i need:
A. Every user can log into any computer and access their own files (roaming desktop?)
B. Two or three separate groups. students & staff OR students, staff, teachers
C. Each group will have certain shares available to them on top of their personal file space (e.g. a shared folder for all teachers)

Questions:
1. What are each of the above services called?
2. Assuming that each person only needs AT MAX 2GB space, a 250-300GB Server drive would work fine to start? is 2GB too much? i think at college they give us 700MB.
3. How easy is it to add/delete users, or reset passwords? Assume that a non-technical office worker would be handling this.
4. Can I lock certain group members out of certain machines? So a student can't log into a staff computer and have access to their programs?
5. As the number of computers grow, is the technology easily scalable?
6. For 25 computers connecting to it, what would be the minimum requirements for the server be? Would a Athlon64/1gb suffice? Is a e6400/2gb overkill?

Thanks again.

 

[Sunner]

Unless you think you'll be able to hire someone else for support and such, go with what you think you can handle support for yourself, be it Linux or Windows, either can do the job for you.
Both the price of a Windows Server license and the lack of features in the Linux/Samba combo will be dwarfed by the knee deep ****** you'll be wading through if things go wrong and you have no idea how to fix it.