clicking sound on driver's side when turning

[neocpp]

Hey guys,

I just bought a used 2001 Integra, but it has a problem where I hear a clicking noise when I turn (and yes I knew about this issue before I bought it -- it's supposed to be a beater and I got a good deal on it). I thought it was the CV axle, but the previous owner told me he had it replaced and it still made the noises.

If it helps, I don't always hear the noise. Making really tight turns does not result in a noise, nor does going in a straight line. Its only during turns that are maybe 50-80 feet in radius that I hear anything. Any ideas? I'm hoping that something is just rubbing against something else, since the previous owner installed an aftermarket suspension, but I don't know how to confirm that.

Thanks,
neocpp

 

[DaTT]

Sounds like a a CV joint...did he have all 4 replaced (inner/outter/left/right)?

 

[NutBucket]

If he used a parts-store rebuilt axle there's a decent chance it is to blame. Typically all they do when rebuilding is re-grease and slap a new boot on it. If its already worn you're SOL. Hence they have a lifetime warranty.

 

[Kadarin]

Previous owner may have replaced the CV boot without replacing the joint itself?

 

[vshah]

is it rolling forward while turning (caused by wheel rotation) or clicking while turning the steering wheel left or right from center?

I had a problem a while back where turning my steering wheel large angles at low speeds would result in some clicking. I retorqued the bolts at the top of the front suspension and that fixed it.

 

[neocpp]

If he used a parts-store rebuilt axle there's a decent chance it is to blame. Typically all they do when rebuilding is re-grease and slap a new boot on it. If its already worn you're SOL. Hence they have a lifetime warranty.

This might be the case; he said they were replaced but he didn't tell me if they were new or rebuilt parts.

is it rolling forward while turning (caused by wheel rotation) or clicking while turning the steering wheel left or right from center?

I had a problem a while back where turning my steering wheel large angles at low speeds would result in some clicking. I retorqued the bolts at the top of the front suspension and that fixed it.

Maybe I should clarify; there is no sound that happens from just turning, its the moving forward that does it (I think -- at least the frequency increases with speed as expected). It can't hurt to try your fix though -- it's free for me, which is awesome.

One other thing, would a bad tie rod cause problems similar to what I'm having? How would I eliminate those from consideration?

 

[DaTT]

A tie rod would not cause clicking, but I believe it would cause a thumping or clunking noise while turning.

 

[phucheneh]

Axle is likely. Especially since on a backwards Honda engine, driver's side is the long axle.

Find an empty parking lot and hold the radius where is makes the clicking. Stab the gas a few times and see if it changes it. Usually the sound will get louder upon either the application or release of engine torque.

You may or may not be able to feel play in the joint (99% chance you're looking at the outer). But it's a pretty quick thing to reach under the car, grab the axle shaft, and give it a shake. You might also want to check the nut for the CV axle at the hub and make sure it's tight.

And FWIW I don't think I've ever heard a noisy tie-rod.

Other spherical joints (ball joints, tie rod end links) can make noise because they're being loaded with a lot of weight. And said noise is usually noticed over bumps.

 

[DaTT]

^^^ Yes, tie rod END was assumed.

 

[phucheneh]

^^^ Yes, tie rod END was assumed.

That was a brainfart, sorry. I meant 'sway bar end links'. Not outer tie rods.

Tie rods really only get 'loaded' when you're turning the wheels, especially at a stop. You'd have to shake the wheel vigorously to get noise. And if you can, PLEASE stop driving the car immediately, 'cause those bitches are about to come apart.

 

[neocpp]

Axle is likely. Especially since on a backwards Honda engine, driver's side is the long axle.

Find an empty parking lot and hold the radius where is makes the clicking. Stab the gas a few times and see if it changes it. Usually the sound will get louder upon either the application or release of engine torque.

You may or may not be able to feel play in the joint (99% chance you're looking at the outer). But it's a pretty quick thing to reach under the car, grab the axle shaft, and give it a shake. You might also want to check the nut for the CV axle at the hub and make sure it's tight.

And FWIW I don't think I've ever heard a noisy tie-rod.

Other spherical joints (ball joints, tie rod end links) can make noise because they're being loaded with a lot of weight. And said noise is usually noticed over bumps.

Actually, this is how I determined the clicking radius. But, I don't hear any difference in sound if punch the accelerator or not. It does get louder and faster when I build up speed, but at the first moment when I hit the accelerator I don't notice anything different. It also doesn't seem to matter if I go in forward or reverse, it sounds the same to me.

I didn't feel any play in the axle, but I'll check the nut at the hub side since I didn't do that last time.

 

[neocpp]

Okay, so I poked around a bit and the driver's side definitely feels a bit looser than the passenger side. I ordered another CV axle with associated joints from online (says its new and not remanufactured) -- any advice for changing it myself? I haven't done anything like this before, just simple maintenance-related things.

I would take it to a mechanic (have one around here that I trust), but it looks like it would be a couple hundred more easily.

 

[deadken]

Generic instructions for replacing the axle would be:

Jack up car, secure properly on blocks / jackstands.
Remove wheel.
Remove tie rod (remove cotter pin + nut, then hit the portion of the spindle where the tie rod connects, do not hit the tie rod).
Disconnect spindle from the lower A-arm (can be done by separating the ball joint from the spindle or sometimes by unbolting the ball joint from the A-arm).
Remove Axle nut.
Pull out from the bottom of the spindle until the axle drops out from the wheel bearing.
Pull the axle out from the transmission (it might leak some fluid from transmission, so have a catch can ready if you care).
Match the old axle to the new axle. The length and number of splines on either end are important details.
Install new axle into transmission (should 'pop' in with a reassuring 'thud').
Pull bottom of the spindle away from lower A-arm and install axle end into wheel bearing opening.
Install axle nut.
Re-install lower ball joint (at either the A-arm or spindle, wherever you separated it).
Re-install tie rod end.
Recheck tightness of all hardware you touched / removed.
Recheck that all cotter pins that were removed were replaced.
Install wheel.
Remove Jack stands / blocks.
Lower car and tighten lug nuts in a star pattern.
Check / top off transmission fluid.
Test drive.

 

[NutBucket]

More detailed instructions. From this diagram:

Disconnect the upper ball joint, 5. Remove tie-rod end from the knuckle.

From this diagram:

Remove the two bolts holding part 1.

Then you should be able to remove the axle. And since the Integra has a double-wishbone suspension, no alignment needed after this job.

 

[phucheneh]

No alignment should ever be needed unless you disconnect a strut from a wheel knuckle. And even then, many struts are now made to bolt in solidly without any wiggle room (no camber adjustment).

'Strut' generally implies 'macpherson strut susnension' (or variations thereof, like the 'modified macpherson' used on mustangs). That Honda doesn't use a strut.

He can disconnect either balljoint to get the axle out, but it's extremely likely that the boot on the chosen balljoint will be wrecked. It's sometimes easier to just unbolt the lower control arm at the body side (parts 11 and 12). Might seem like it'll take a little longer, but it will save him the likely lengthier effort of beating the balljoint loose.

In most cases, the tie rod will also have to come out. That's another boot to rip if you use a pickle fork. So either use a 'tie rod end puller,' or, more simply, thread a disposable nut on after removing and setting aside the factory nut. Leave a couple threads above the top of the stud, and give it a sharp rap with a hammer. Should come loose pretty easily. If you don't thread on a nut and instead just smack the stud, you'll smash the top threads together and be unable to reassemble.

Use a prybar (curved end) between the inner joint and the trans case to get the axle out. One stiff push should pop the retaining ring loose. Similarly, you've gotta be sure you seat the new axle all the way. You should feel said retaining ring pop back into place. To be sure, measure the gap between the inner joint and trans case before you take the old axle out. If the gap is larger with the new axle, it's not seated. Usually you can grab the main shaft (between the joints) and use it to pop the inner stub in. Just pull out about an inch, and then shove it torwards the transmission. No, it won't hurt the hardened steel CV joint. Resist the temptation to hammer on the outer stub to seat the axle, or you'd have the same problem as I mentioned above with crushed threads.

If you need to beat said outside stub to get it out of a rusted hub, use a nut to protect the end. Or get a brass hammer.

 

[neocpp]

Thank you very much guys, with your instructions replacement seems pretty doable. Just have to wait a week for the parts to arrive now.

 

[Harrod]

I changed out the cv joint on my integra a few months ago, Its really not that hard. Be careful when you separate the ball joint though, I used a fork and screwed up ball joint due to wedging it between the ball joint itself and the rod the nut connects to resulting in a much larger headache.

This is a pretty good way to separate it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaqqsvBQbFI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISY8bGof3bQ

Honda tech has a write up on this as well:
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2714932

 

[phucheneh]

That's clever.

On some cars, you can just hit the wheel knuckle with a BFH to rattle the joint loose, but:

1) You really need the car on a lift to get a proper swing and

2) It must be done Like A Boss (tm). You don't want to beat the shit out of the knuckle, and that's what will happen if you don't have some practice and a proper hammer.

Again: there's no reason you can't just unbolt the lower A-arm at the frame. Difficulty will vary depending on the car, but there's generally no risk of damage and the part will more or less come right out (sometimes you'll need a pry bar, but it's nothing like getting the tapered stud on a balljoint loose). And there's generally little if any room for the alignment to change.

 

[SparkyJJO]

I rarely have had a problem separating a ball joint. I have a 3 pound hammer and a couple smacks on the stud usually pops it free. Screwing with control arm bolts is more of a pain and can throw the alignment. But then I have really only worked on GM cars, so maybe Honda uses some magic voodoo that welds their balljoint studs in

 

[phucheneh]

I don't even live in the rust belt, and some makes can get pretty damn stuck.

It sounds like you're referring to balljoints that point down. More often than not, they point up, so you can't exactly just whack the end of the stud (that axle kajigger is in the way). It's either pickle fork, which is often just pure luck if you use it without ruining the boot, or beat on the knuckle until the vibration knocks it loose.