Clemens leave game early, end of his career?

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
0
0
Hard to argue with Clemens Cy Youngs, but I would still like to give a shout out for Rapid Robert Feller:

On December 8, 1941 Feller, enlisted in the Navy, volunteering immediately for combat service becoming the first Major League Baseball player to do so following the Attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7. Feller served as Gun Captain aboard the USS Alabama,[1] and missed four seasons during his service in World War II, being decorated with five campaign ribbons and eight battle stars. One year after his return to Major League action, in 1946, he registered an incredible 348 strikeouts while pitching in 48 games, starting 42 of those games. That year Bob was 26-15 with an era of 2.18 while pitching 36 complete games. He led the American League in strikeouts seven times and had 200 or more strikeouts five times. Bob pitched in 570 games during his career, and pitched in 40 or more games six seasons. Bob also threw three no-hit games inlcuding the only opening day no-hitter in baseball history in 1940. He had 46 shutouts during his career with 10 of those in 1946. Many baseball historians have speculated that Feller would have won perhaps 350 games with well over 3,000 strikeouts had he not joined the military. Even still, he was honored as "The greatest pitcher of his time" by the Sporting News.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Feller
 

PClark99

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2000
3,833
74
91
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: hdeck
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: bearxor
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Sad way to end a great career.

Greatest post WW 2 pitcher for sure.
ummm... Nolan Ryan?
Was that supposed to be a joke?

Ryan: 324W-292L, 5714 K's, 3.19 ERA, No Cy Young's

Clemens: 354W-184L 4672 K's, 3.12 ERA, 7 Cy Young's

Ryan was good, but he was never the best pitcher for any single year.
Clemens had 6 20+ win seasons, Ryan only had 2.

Finally, if you look at ERA+ which allows you to compare pitchers from different eras and ballparks you will see Ryan at 112 and Clemens at 142. (100 being the average pitcher in the league.)

didn't nolan have like 7 no hitters? that's gotta count for something.
Ryan didn't have access to steriods like Clemens did either.

BTW Sandy Koufax and Bob Gibson were both better than Clemens

QFT.

Ryan pitched for some really pathetic Astros teams in the 70s. Koufax and Gibson were before my time but legendary.
 
Aug 23, 2000
15,509
1
81
Originally posted by: PClark99
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: hdeck
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: bearxor
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Sad way to end a great career.

Greatest post WW 2 pitcher for sure.
ummm... Nolan Ryan?
Was that supposed to be a joke?

Ryan: 324W-292L, 5714 K's, 3.19 ERA, No Cy Young's

Clemens: 354W-184L 4672 K's, 3.12 ERA, 7 Cy Young's

Ryan was good, but he was never the best pitcher for any single year.
Clemens had 6 20+ win seasons, Ryan only had 2.

Finally, if you look at ERA+ which allows you to compare pitchers from different eras and ballparks you will see Ryan at 112 and Clemens at 142. (100 being the average pitcher in the league.)

didn't nolan have like 7 no hitters? that's gotta count for something.
Ryan didn't have access to steriods like Clemens did either.

BTW Sandy Koufax and Bob Gibson were both better than Clemens

QFT.

Ryan pitched for some really pathetic Astros teams in the 70s. Koufax and Gibson were before my time but legendary.

Don't forget he also pitched for the Rangers. The Rangers have always sucked and WILL always suck, but he managed to make them not suck so much when he was there.
 

SludgeFactory

Platinum Member
Sep 14, 2001
2,969
2
81
Clemens is on a very select list of pitchers. He was so good for so long, the stats and awards are insane.

Nobody ever threw harder for more years than Nolan Ryan, and he ascended to god status when Robin Ventura charged him and he did everything but hogtie him and leave up face-up on the mound, but he's not on that list. He struggled with control problems for much of his career. Some of his best control seasons were at the end with the Rangers. It's easy to look back at the no-hitter nights when he was really on, able to paint the black with 100 mph heat *and* locate his curve, and make the entire lineup look utterly stupid, but that wasn't exactly happening every time out.

And it's blasphemous to even suggest this around my part of the country where Nolan Ryan is idolized to this day, but the steroid speculation game has a slippery slope. It has crossed my mind that he was still throwing gas in his 40's (signficantly harder than Clemens in the last couple years) and that testosterone and growth hormone were very available at that time, not as heavily controlled by the federal government, and were completely off the radar with regard to baseball.
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,439
80
91
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: hdeck
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: bearxor
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Sad way to end a great career.

Greatest post WW 2 pitcher for sure.
ummm... Nolan Ryan?
Was that supposed to be a joke?

Ryan: 324W-292L, 5714 K's, 3.19 ERA, No Cy Young's

Clemens: 354W-184L 4672 K's, 3.12 ERA, 7 Cy Young's

Ryan was good, but he was never the best pitcher for any single year.
Clemens had 6 20+ win seasons, Ryan only had 2.

Finally, if you look at ERA+ which allows you to compare pitchers from different eras and ballparks you will see Ryan at 112 and Clemens at 142. (100 being the average pitcher in the league.)

didn't nolan have like 7 no hitters? that's gotta count for something.
Ryan didn't have access to steriods like Clemens did either.

BTW Sandy Koufax and Bob Gibson were both better than Clemens

Prove Clemens is/was on steroids.
 

dman

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 1999
9,110
0
76
Well, he's a fan of Mythbusters and did an epsiode on baseball myths. Episode wasn't that good, but was cool that he's a fan and did it. :)

I can't really complain about him as a player who switches teams a lot, he gives his best for whichever team is cutting him the checks. Doesn't always work out but he's a competitor to the core.








 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Ryan didn't have access to steriods like Clemens did either.

BTW Sandy Koufax and Bob Gibson were both better than Clemens[/quote]
Koufax only pitched for 12 years, hard to compare his career to Clemens. His ERA+ is also lower than Clemens.

Gibson had some insane years, but when they lowered the mound his ERA went up by a point. His career ERA+ is also lower than Clemens, and he has 100 less wins.

I don't think you will find someone who was as good for as long as Clemens. And it is very unlikely that we will ever see another 350 game winner. Maddox is at 347, after that you drop to 303 for Glavine and 284 for Johnson. Niether of them is going to win another 50 games.