Cleaning downspout extension question

[IndyColtsFan]

I've got a few downspout extensions that go underground and out to drains in the yard. They've worked well in the past but they seem to be clogged, possibly by leaves but more likely, roots. I need a way to easily clean these myself. They're the black corrugated pipe like this:

In total length from the downspout to the drain is no more than 15-20 feet or so and I'd wager (though I could be incorrect) that both are clogged in the last 6-8 feet of the pipe because that's the section under the lawn (from there, they go under a patio so roots would be much less of a problem).

What's a good tool to use for something like this? I had a guy quote me $700 for two hours of using a water jet in them but since this may have to be done every year, I don't want an annual $700 cost and would prefer to do them myself if possible.

Thanks

EDIT: Thought about trying an auger like this. Do you think it is safe for that kind of pipe?

 

[boomerang]

That auger won't do anything against roots. To deal with roots you need a cutting head. Think along the lines of a hole saw. As it burrows along through the pipe it cuts the roots. That works well in a drain because the cut roots can flow out into the main sewer line running along adjacent to the road. In this case there is nowhere for the cut roots to go and of course the plastic pipe isn't going to stand up to the process. The roto-rooter guys use a cutting head driven by a flexible cable.

I'm sorry to have to say that IMO, digging and replacing the pipe is going to be your only recourse and short of putting in a dry well for each downspout it will be a regular maintenance project.

I hope for your sake I'm wrong and somebody else has some good suggestions. My downspout extensions discharge onto splash blocks. Those are not necessarily a solution either. They have problems of their own. A drywell is pretty much a permanent solution.

 

[edro]

It's corrugated, so a standard pipe snake will snag.
I know there are a lot of chemicals you can dump down there to dissolve organic material (roots, etc). They are in the drain cleaning section of the hardware store. I am skeptical of them though. It would only attack material is has direct contact with, so it would only dissolve a small channel in the bottom of the pipe.

Did you try youtube?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

That auger won't do anything against roots. To deal with roots you need a cutting head. Think along the lines of a hole saw. As it burrows along through the pipe it cuts the roots. That works well in a drain because the cut roots can flow out into the main sewer line running along adjacent to the road. In this case there is nowhere for the cut roots to go and of course the plastic pipe isn't going to stand up to the process. The roto-rooter guys use a cutting head driven by a flexible cable.

I'm sorry to have to say that IMO, digging and replacing the pipe is going to be your only recourse and short of putting in a dry well for each downspout it will be a regular maintenance project.

I hope for your sake I'm wrong and somebody else has some good suggestions. My downspout extensions discharge onto splash blocks. Those are not necessarily a solution either. They have problems of their own. A drywell is pretty much a permanent solution.

I found another company that offered to come out with their hydrojetter and if they can't get them unclogged, they'll only charge me a site visit fee ($89) and if they can get them unclogged, $360. I'll gladly pay that at this point and if it is a yearly thing, so be it at that price point. I suspected that first estimate was a ripoff and it was confirmed. Anyway, if this other company can't get them unclogged, I'll likely put above-ground extensions on those 3 downspouts for now as I think I can probably hide them fairly well. Digging them up at this stage is possible but would be very hard for the middle one since it goes underneath a huge portion of paver patio and I'm not willing to pull that up to fix this issue.

I didn't realize when I had the patio installed that PVC would've been a better drain extension alternative because a mechanized auger will work in them but would likely shred these corrugated pipes.

 

[Greenman]

Stuff a garden hose through it before you shell out $360. It's more than likely just mud in it. I've never seen any substantial amount of roots in a drain pipe, there is nothing in there a plant wants.

 

[highland145]

Stuff a garden hose through it before you shell out $360. It's more than likely just mud in it. I've never seen any substantial amount of roots in a drain pipe, there is nothing in there a plant wants.

This or shingle rock. Roots would only get in if there's a seam.

For 20", you could dig it up for cheaper that $700.

 

[cabri]

If you are going to spend the money; why not replace and then do it right.

Try the hose pressure trick first.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

If you are going to spend the money; why not replace and then do it right.

Try the hose pressure trick first.

I usually would prefer to do it right, but we've got so many other house projects going on that it just isn't in the cards to tackle right now. I am about "over" owning a home with all this stuff I'm having done but it might be a future project. Anyway, I'm not going to remove huge sections of the patio to replace them right now - that would be much more than $360 because I wouldn't do it myself. Two of the three extensions wouldn't be terribly hard to do but the third will be very painful. I'd envision having NOTHING attached to the downspouts but instead, a drain grill directly underneath them where water pours into. I've heard that's better for northern climates because it helps alleviate ice buildup in the downspouts.

If I had known then what I know now, I would've told them to use PVC instead of the corrugated pipe. Honestly though, I see the corrugated pipe everywhere in this area so people have to deal with it somehow and the place I called yesterday (the more reasonable place) said they've been doing a ton of these jobs lately since Indiana has had tons of rain and flooding the past few weeks.

Stuff a garden hose through it before you shell out $360. It's more than likely just mud in it. I've never seen any substantial amount of roots in a drain pipe, there is nothing in there a plant wants.

Yeah, I might try that too. I did think about getting a fishing tape and pushing it through to see where the blockage(s) might be. Any recommendations for a good, high-powered nozzle for a garden hose? One that is straight (no handles or anything making it hard to push through)?

When the guy was out yesterday giving an estimate, he reached down into one and pulled out a handful of roots. That's the one that drains near a flower bed (with a willow in it) so I am sure it is full of roots. That's why I also suspect that the blockage is probably fairly close to the end. Unfortunately, that's the one that goes under a large section of the patio and will be hard to replace. If we're not able to get it fixed, I may have to go with an above ground extender - the downspout goes behind several large plants so I think I can hide it *fairly* well and have it drain onto the patio, which slopes downward and would drain into the yard.

EDIT: Was just rethinking what cabri said and may have an idea to run by you guys. As I mentioned previously, I strongly suspect much of the clogs are roots from grass, plants, etc. If that's the case, that if I just dug up the section of the corrugated pipe under the lawn (not the patio) and replaced that with PVC instead? The PVC would have holes drilled in the sides and bottom. I guess the only question I would have it what would be a good way to join the pipes? Do they have adapters to fit them together (assuming I go from 4" corrugated to 4" PVC)?

 

[skyking]

they do, and remember this pipe is basically a leak so don't worry too much about how tight the adapter is. put fabric in the ditch and some drain gravel.

 

[boomerang]

Roots will find their way into any seam, any opening. They go to the water source. You undoubtedly have perforated pipe now. I guess I don't see how PVC with holes in it will keep out roots unless the pipe is surrounded in gravel too thick for the roots to grow into it. And the drainage had better be excellent too. If there's water and the root can travel that far before it finds it, it will find it.

 

[skyking]

I use solid pipe till I get out in a lawn area. Grass roots don't cause a problem if you lay down fabric over top of your trench. It is trees and woody shrubs that are the root of the problem. they will travel as far as the drip line of the tree, so plan accordingly.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Roots will find their way into any seam, any opening. They go to the water source. You undoubtedly have perforated pipe now. I guess I don't see how PVC with holes in it will keep out roots unless the pipe is surrounded in gravel too thick for the roots to grow into it. And the drainage had better be excellent too. If there's water and the root can travel that far before it finds it, it will find it.

I think the idea is that the PVC would have small holes drilled mainly in the bottom of it. Yeah, small roots could potentially get in those small holes but PVC can withstand a cleaning by an auger, whereas the corrugated pipe can't. I'm thinking that for the most part, root intrusion will only be in the lawn area and the sections under the patio are likely pretty clean.

There is a video of a guy on Youtube using a monstrous motorized auger on corrugated pipe and I'm shocked he didn't shred it.

 

[cabri]

There are different size couplings (stepdown) for PVC.

Get a coupling that has one end that is larger than the existing corrugated pipe.
Glue it together.
Then attached/glue your desired PVC pipe for the replacement runout to the other side of the coupling.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I use solid pipe till I get out in a lawn area. Grass roots don't cause a problem if you lay down fabric over top of your trench. It is trees and woody shrubs that are the root of the problem. they will travel as far as the drip line of the tree, so plan accordingly.

Yeah, this one line (the middle one that is a PITA to replace) runs next to a major flower bed and that might be a problem. I suppose if it turns out to be too destroyed or full of roots, I can just disconnect it from the downspout and fill it in and then use a low profile above ground extender. I think I can hide it among the plants and it wouldn't be too bad and the patio has a nice slant so the water would drain right off.

 

[waffleironhead]

Maybe try this high pressure fitting. Ive used the smaller version to clear a sink drain and it worked well.

http://www.amazon.com/Cobra-Product..._sim_60_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0DMDQQ010B4VFKYN7X07

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Interesting waffleironhead. Thanks!

So the guy with the hydrojet is here. He cleared the south drain pretty easily - just old leaves and gunk. The middle drain was a PITA -- he pulled out tons of roots. He is working on the north drain as well, which might be the shortest of them all. Not sure what he'll see there, but I suspect roots. Hope he didn't damage the plants but at the end of the day, I don't really care if he did - this is more important than a few plants.

I'm hoping I can just a minor flush in the spring and it will still be OK until I decide on a long-term approach. Thinking I might put a filter at the downspout entry to catch leaves in the fall and just clean them every week or two to help keep them clean. Thoughts? I may just have to get used to having it pressure flushed every year.

He did validate my approach above - just dig out the section under the lawn and replace with PVC. However, the middle downspout was clogged with roots well under the patio - not sure exactly how, as I expected it to be clogged under the lawn and maybe a foot or two down due to the plants around the entry. So even with splicing PVC on at the end, the roots will continue to be a problem in all likelihood. I know someone suggested earlier that there might be a chemical I could pour down the drains to get rid of root, but I'm assuming that would kill the plants and that won't float with the wife.

 

[cabri]

Is it a straight run of the pipe?

If so, consider inserting a PVC sleeve

 

[gbeirn]

Interesting waffleironhead. Thanks!

So the guy with the hydrojet is here. He cleared the south drain pretty easily - just old leaves and gunk. The middle drain was a PITA -- he pulled out tons of roots. He is working on the north drain as well, which might be the shortest of them all. Not sure what he'll see there, but I suspect roots. Hope he didn't damage the plants but at the end of the day, I don't really care if he did - this is more important than a few plants.

I'm hoping I can just a minor flush in the spring and it will still be OK until I decide on a long-term approach. Thinking I might put a filter at the downspout entry to catch leaves in the fall and just clean them every week or two to help keep them clean. Thoughts? I may just have to get used to having it pressure flushed every year.

He did validate my approach above - just dig out the section under the lawn and replace with PVC. However, the middle downspout was clogged with roots well under the patio - not sure exactly how, as I expected it to be clogged under the lawn and maybe a foot or two down due to the plants around the entry. So even with splicing PVC on at the end, the roots will continue to be a problem in all likelihood. I know someone suggested earlier that there might be a chemical I could pour down the drains to get rid of root, but I'm assuming that would kill the plants and that won't float with the wife.

You need to get some copper down there, its toxic to plant roots so they avoid it but it won't kill the plant. We used to wrap the PVC drain pipes in copper wire, even the perforated ones and never had any root problems. Copper wire pushed down the drains might help but then it might catch debris, wrapping the pipe if you can dig it up would be best.

 

[LegendKiller]

Before we got sod in our new house I took two downspouts and our sump outlet and buried it using 4" solid pvc. Used solid pvc for this very reason. Left a y connector with a screwed on cap half way down to act as a clean out if I need it. I was able to get a guy to drill into a drain in my back yard that goes to a neighborhood drain pond. Handles all of the water I can throw at it. Just wish I had buried our other 3 downspouts to the same pipe and Ben done with it.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Before we got sod in our new house I took two downspouts and our sump outlet and buried it using 4" solid pvc. Used solid pvc for this very reason. Left a y connector with a screwed on cap half way down to act as a clean out if I need it. I was able to get a guy to drill into a drain in my back yard that goes to a neighborhood drain pond. Handles all of the water I can throw at it. Just wish I had buried our other 3 downspouts to the same pipe and Ben done with it.

PVC was definitely a smart move. I didn't even think about it when the patio was built because pretty much everyone uses corrugated pipe here. Lesson learned for sure.

 

[bamx2]

Solid pvc is great but the price of the fittings for the larger diameters >4 inches is pretty steep.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

You need to get some copper down there, its toxic to plant roots so they avoid it but it won't kill the plant. We used to wrap the PVC drain pipes in copper wire, even the perforated ones and never had any root problems. Copper wire pushed down the drains might help but then it might catch debris, wrapping the pipe if you can dig it up would be best.

Interesting thought.

 

[LegendKiller]

Solid pvc is great but the price of the fittings for the larger diameters >4 inches is pretty steep.

Yeah, that's one reason why I cut it off there, that and I didn't think I needed >4". The two downspouts have a lot of roofline but it isn't unmanageable. I've never been down to the drain during a heavy ran but I imagine it's flowing down pretty dang heavily.

 

[LegendKiller]

PVC was definitely a smart move. I didn't even think about it when the patio was built because pretty much everyone uses corrugated pipe here. Lesson learned for sure.

Yeah, sucks you had to learn the hard way. Not an easy fix either. I wish I had spent the extra 300-400 to just run all of my downspouts to my main line. To do it now would be a huge PITA. My brother and I did all of the work, including the main trenching, putting the pvc together. Took us 3 days to go ~200'. There hasn't been a day I've regretted it. All of the neighbors have sump discharge sogginess around the yard, not us.

Flow better now?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Yeah, sucks you had to learn the hard way. Not an easy fix either. I wish I had spent the extra 300-400 to just run all of my downspouts to my main line. To do it now would be a huge PITA. My brother and I did all of the work, including the main trenching, putting the pvc together. Took us 3 days to go ~200'. There hasn't been a day I've regretted it. All of the neighbors have sump discharge sogginess around the yard, not us.

Flow better now?

We're not supposed to get rain until Thursday, so I'll be anxious to see how well it does. I'm sure it will be fine, but I don't like having to do this every year.

I wouldn't have to go that far with PVC. The main thing is the area underneath the patio. I think I could trench out the section under the lawn and replace it with PVC with no problems and connect it to the corrugated under the patio. Still considering that as a longer-term solution for the middle extension; the other two extensions could probably be entirely done without too much pain. I'm just not willing to tear out a huge section of my patio to replace that middle line -- I'll do an above ground extension hidden in the plants before I'll do that.