Classy till the end

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/dirty_tricks

'Tis the season for tricking voters
Print By DEBORAH HASTINGS, AP National Writer Deborah Hastings, Ap National Writer ? Sun Nov 2, 8:53 pm ET

In the hours before Election Day, as inevitable as winter, comes an onslaught of dirty tricks ? confusing e-mails, disturbing phone calls and insinuating fliers left on doorsteps during the night.

The intent, almost always, is to keep folks from voting or to confuse them, usually through intimidation or misinformation. But in this presidential race, in which a black man leads most polls, some of the deceit has a decidedly racist bent.

Complaints have surfaced in predominantly African-American neighborhoods of Philadelphia where fliers have circulated, warning voters they could be arrested at the polls if they had unpaid parking tickets or if they had criminal convictions.

Over the weekend in Virginia, bogus fliers with an authentic-looking commonwealth seal said fears of high voter turnout had prompted election officials to hold two elections ? one on Tuesday for Republicans and another on Wednesday for Democrats.

In New Mexico, two Hispanic women filed a lawsuit last week claiming they were harassed by a private investigator working for a Republican lawyer who came to their homes and threatened to call immigration authorities, even though they are U.S. citizens.

"He was questioning her status, saying that he needed to see her papers and documents to show that she was a U.S. citizen and was a legitimate voter," said Guadalupe Bojorquez, speaking on behalf of her mother, Dora Escobedo, a 67-year-old Albuquerque resident who speaks only Spanish. "He totally, totally scared the heck out of her."

In Pennsylvania, e-mails appeared linking Democrat Barack Obama to the Holocaust. "Jewish Americans cannot afford to make the wrong decision on Tuesday, Nov. 4," said the electronic message, paid for by an entity calling itself the Republican Federal Committee. "Many of our ancestors ignored the warning signs in the 1930s and 1940s and made a tragic mistake."

Laughlin McDonald, who leads the ACLU's Voting Rights Project, said he has never seen "an election where there was more interest and more voter turnout, and more efforts to suppress registration and turnout. And that has a real impact on minorities."

The Obama campaign and civil rights advocacy groups have signed up millions of new voters for this presidential race. In Ohio alone, some 600,000 have submitted new voter registration cards.

Across the country, many of these first-time voters are young and strong Obama supporters. Many are also black and Hispanic.

Activist groups say it is this fresh crop of ballot-minded citizens that makes some Republicans very nervous. And they say they expect the dirty tricks to get dirtier in final hours before Tuesday.

"Oh, there's plenty of time for things to get ugly," said Zachary Stalberg, president of The Committee of Seventy, a Philadelphia-based government watchdog group that is nonpartisan.

Other reports of intimidation efforts in the hotly contested state of Pennsylvania include leaflets taped to picnic benches at Drexel University, warning students that police would be at the polls on Tuesday to arrest would-be voters with prior criminal offenses.

In his Jewish neighborhood, Stalberg said, fliers were recently left claiming Obama was more sympathetic to Palestinians than to Israel, and showed a photograph of him speaking in Germany.

"It shows up between the screen door and the front door in the middle of the night," Stalberg said. "Why couldn't someone knock on the door and hand that to me in the middle of the day? In a sense, it's very smartly done. The message gets through. It's done carefully enough that people might read it."

Such tactics are common, and are often impossible to trace. Robo-calls, in which automated, bogus phone messages are sent over and over, are very hard to trace to their source, say voting advocates. E-mails fall into the same category.

In Nevada, for example, Latino voters said they had received calls from people describing themselves as Obama volunteers, urging them to cast their ballot over the phone.

The calls were reported to Election Protection, a nonprofit advocacy group that runs a hot line for election troubles. The organization does not know who orchestrated them.

"The Voting Rights Act makes it a crime to misled and intimidate voters," said McDonald. "If you can find out who's doing it, those people should be prosecuted. But sometimes it's just difficult to know who's doing what. Some of it's just anonymous."

With millions of first time voters registering just for this election, I'm guessing most polls are underestimating the results in their "likely voter" models which tend to exclude first time voters in favor of those who vote regularly. A massive shift in the electorate should be making some people nervous. But they only have to be nervous for another day, then the pain will be over. Good riddance.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
Originally posted by: jonks
With millions of first time voters registering just for this election, I'm guessing most polls are underestimating the results in their "likely voter" models which tend to exclude first time voters in favor of those who vote regularly. A massive shift in the electorate should be making some people nervous. But they only have to be nervous for another day, then the pain will be over. Good riddance.

We see this kind of BS every election, on both sides. It won't have any impact on the outcome.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Like PokerGuy said, this happens every 4 years. I do think it will be much more prevelent this election though and I think it will be very, very lopsided as to who the intended victims are.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Like PokerGuy said, this happens every 4 years. I do think it will be much more prevelent this election though and I think it will be very, very lopsided as to who the intended victims are.

You're probably right, but I don't think it will change the outcome. However, I think one way to help prevent this kind of BS would be to make it a federal crime to in any way attempt to tamper with elections. This means if you're a Republican and you try to prevent black people from voting, you go to jail. If you work for ACORN and you fake registration in order to make a few extra bucks, you go to jail. Elections are too important to allow assholes to screw around with them.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Like PokerGuy said, this happens every 4 years. I do think it will be much more prevelent this election though and I think it will be very, very lopsided as to who the intended victims are.

You're probably right, but I don't think it will change the outcome. However, I think one way to help prevent this kind of BS would be to make it a federal crime to in any way attempt to tamper with elections. This means if you're a Republican and you try to prevent black people from voting, you go to jail. If you work for ACORN and you fake registration in order to make a few extra bucks, you go to jail. Elections are too important to allow assholes to screw around with them.

110% agree.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
We see this kind of BS every election, on both sides. It won't have any impact on the outcome.
I see that retort regularly, "on both sides", but I've yet to see any significant evidence supporting it. Can you provide examples of things being done this year to disenfranchise or scare off likely Republican voters?

Edit: to be clear, I'm not suggesting Dems are squeaky clean in this respect. I just haven't seen evidence they've taken it to the same level as Repubs.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,837
2,622
136
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Originally posted by: jonks
With millions of first time voters registering just for this election, I'm guessing most polls are underestimating the results in their "likely voter" models which tend to exclude first time voters in favor of those who vote regularly. A massive shift in the electorate should be making some people nervous. But they only have to be nervous for another day, then the pain will be over. Good riddance.

We see this kind of BS every election, on both sides. It won't have any impact on the outcome.

We do see this every four years, but it does have a very real effect in suppressing the vote of targeted groups. In 2004 this behavior was squashed down in some locales, flourished as normal in others. This year the Obama campaign has a huge team of volunteer lawyers to aid them.

To everyone-if you see or hear of any suppression, call your local Obama campaign immediately. An activated population will be a huge defense to this garbage.

There is no reason why the United States should accept anything less than fair and free elections.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,705
6,261
126
People who do such things are more deserving of Gitmo than those currently there.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
76
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
We see this kind of BS every election, on both sides. It won't have any impact on the outcome.
I see that retort regularly, "on both sides", but I've yet to see any significant evidence supporting it. Can you provide examples of things being done this year to disenfranchise or scare off likely Republican voters?

Edit: to be clear, I'm not suggesting Dems are squeaky clean in this respect. I just haven't seen evidence they've taken it to the same level as Repubs.

Bump, I'd like to see this too.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
We see this kind of BS every election, on both sides. It won't have any impact on the outcome.
Really? Proof of Democratic efforts to suppress Republican voters.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,705
6,261
126
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
We see this kind of BS every election, on both sides. It won't have any impact on the outcome.
Really? Proof of Democratic efforts to suppress Republican voters.

I heard that a Cheafuer(sp) was away for a couple hours to Vote. The Poor guy employing him was unable to get to the Polls without screwing up his whole daily itinerary!
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,439
80
91
People who fall for these kind of assinine schemes should probably not be voting in the first place.
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,439
80
91
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Sinsear
People who commit these kind of assinine schemes should probably not be voting in the first place.

fixed

Nice try. How can anyone be stupid enough to fall for this?
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,397
8,563
126
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Like PokerGuy said, this happens every 4 years. I do think it will be much more prevelent this election though and I think it will be very, very lopsided as to who the intended victims are.

You're probably right, but I don't think it will change the outcome. However, I think one way to help prevent this kind of BS would be to make it a federal crime to in any way attempt to tamper with elections. This means if you're a Republican and you try to prevent black people from voting, you go to jail. If you work for ACORN and you fake registration in order to make a few extra bucks, you go to jail. Elections are too important to allow assholes to screw around with them.

it already is a federal crime. problem catching people doing it. just like everything else in the voter fraud realm.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,705
6,261
126
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Sinsear
People who commit these kind of assinine schemes should probably not be voting in the first place.

fixed

Nice try. How can anyone be stupid enough to fall for this?

Doesn't matter. Their Rights are being(or attempted) violated. Those perpetuating such acts are the worst scum in Society. It would be like Gun Control advocates flooding the Market with Dud ammunition and/or Guns that malfunctioned by Design.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,592
6,715
126
Originally posted by: Sinsear
People who fall for these kind of assinine schemes should probably not be voting in the first place.

Hehe, says a McCain voter. The irony.
 

Baked

Lifer
Dec 28, 2004
36,052
17
81
Originally posted by: Sinsear
People who fall for these kind of assinine schemes should probably not be voting in the first place.

Stay class republican voter.
 

Skitzer

Diamond Member
Mar 20, 2000
4,414
3
81
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Originally posted by: jonks
With millions of first time voters registering just for this election, I'm guessing most polls are underestimating the results in their "likely voter" models which tend to exclude first time voters in favor of those who vote regularly. A massive shift in the electorate should be making some people nervous. But they only have to be nervous for another day, then the pain will be over. Good riddance.

We see this kind of BS every election, on both sides. It won't have any impact on the outcome.

+1
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
12
81
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
We see this kind of BS every election, on both sides. It won't have any impact on the outcome.
Really? Proof of Democratic efforts to suppress Republican voters.

I heard that a Cheafuer(sp) was away for a couple hours to Vote. The Poor guy employing him was unable to get to the Polls without screwing up his whole daily itinerary!

No kidding (sp)! I had to read it 3 times before I realized you meant to say chauffeur :)
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Sinsear
People who commit these kind of assinine schemes should probably not be voting in the first place.

fixed

Nice try. How can anyone be stupid enough to fall for this?
People are stupid enough to vote for McCain, so anything is possible.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Sinsear
People who fall for these kind of assinine schemes should probably not be voting in the first place.
Hehe, says a McCain voter. The irony.
:laugh:

Bear in mind Sinsear that many of us felt that way about Bush supporters for years.

Different people have different life experiences that color their perceptions and beliefs. For example, people in some poorer precincts in certain states have waited in line for hours to vote in recent elections. They've heard about early voting. They hear on the news that election officials are expecting all-time record turnouts this year. Then they receive an official-looking notice that, due to these huge turnouts, they're spreading the election across two days. It's not that big of a stretch to accept it as sensible and accurate.

Similarly, some groups feel, right or wrong, that they have been harassed by the authorities all their lives. They then get a tip that police are going to do it to them again, this time at the polls. Again, not a big stretch for them to believe.

In short, it's very easy to prey on people's prejudices and fears. All you have to do is tell them that "The Man" is looking for them, or another Holocaust is in the making ... or maybe tell them gays are trying to destroy their families and Saddam Hussein is giving WMDs to terrorists ready to launch UAVs to strike America's heartland. There are many ways to manipulate gullible people. Should we prohibit all of them (you) from voting?
 

imported_apocalypse

Senior member
Aug 27, 2008
449
0
0
Is it not illegal to distribute those fliers with fake information? If so, how do they not catch the people who make them, its not that easy to hand out thousands of fliers without being noticed.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
We see this kind of BS every election, on both sides. It won't have any impact on the outcome.
I see that retort regularly, "on both sides", but I've yet to see any significant evidence supporting it. Can you provide examples of things being done this year to disenfranchise or scare off likely Republican voters?

Edit: to be clear, I'm not suggesting Dems are squeaky clean in this respect. I just haven't seen evidence they've taken it to the same level as Repubs.

Usually on the repub side you'll see attempts to confuse or otherwise get voters who will vote for the other guy not to vote, on the dem side you see attempts to get people to vote who should not be voting, and block any attempt to require any kind of ID when voting. Allowing an increase in fraudulent votes is the same as disenfranchising legitimate voters. Same concept, different tactics.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
We see this kind of BS every election, on both sides. It won't have any impact on the outcome.
Really? Proof of Democratic efforts to suppress Republican voters.

You won't find it, this is the moral equivalency BS that the GOP defenders trot out to deflect criticism about corruption.

Happens every single time, "but, but the D's do it too!!!"

No, that's flat out wrong.