Clash over doctors asking patients about firearms

[PokerGuy]

WTF? I'd never even heard of this before.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-05-13-nra-doctors-guns_n.htm

I disagree with the laws banning doctors from asking about firearms or anything else for that matter. We don't need more government regulation of what consenting adults can or can't talk about, but I can't think of any logical reason why any doctor would need to ask about firearms in the home.

"We're not talking to parents about gun control," Abston said in an interview. "We're talking about safety."

Why does my doctor need to talk to me about safety? Does my mechanic talk about my lawn? Does my financial adviser talk about my cable modem? The doctor is there to provide medical advice/service/expertise, not as a "safety" consultant.

If my doctor asked me if I had firearms in my home I'd tell him that it's none of his business and to STFU.

 

[Jaskalas]

Why does my doctor need to talk to me about safety?

Cause they're a raging Democrat activist who'd love nothing more to report you to CPS for child endangerment.

 

[Macamus Prime]

If my doctor asked me if I had firearms in my home I'd tell him that it's none of his business and to STFU.

DIS IS AH-MURIKA!!! HOO-AH!!!

Relax.

The Dr's intentions are to ensure their patients aren't shot in the face by accident. Obama isn't asking Drs to scout out and confirm if there are armed militias he has to worry about when he sends soliders out to take away your land.

A Dr would ask; "do you drive a motorcyle?" and you would say "yes" and he would say - "be sure to wear a helmet!"

I don't think there is anything sinister about this question.

Also, when a Dr in Texas asks his patient if he has a gun, will the Texan shoot the Dr? Or just shoot him before he even gets a chance,... since the Dr is practicing all kinds of shaman-like magic and what not.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Very odd, but not a problem in this part of the country, everyone assumes you are armed, the only question is whether it is in your pocket or under the seat of your car.

> 10% of the people in my city have concealed-carry permits, I imagine that even more carry without a permit.

Do they also ask about how you store your knives or your blowtorch? Never know when you might stab yourself or your 3-year old and your dog decide to go burn the neighborhood down.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2163553&highlight=arsonist

 

[PokerGuy]

The Dr's intentions are to ensure their patients aren't shot in the face by accident.

Is that why you go to a doctor, to get his advice on safety tips? How to use your lawnmower without getting hurt? Maybe how best to open an envelope without getting a paper cut? Or how about stock tips? Since when is a doctor an expert on safety in the home, or anything other than medical issues?

A Dr would ask; "do you drive a motorcyle?" and you would say "yes" and he would say - "be sure to wear a helmet!"

Again, why? Does your doctor ask you if you look both ways when crossing the street? Does my cable guy ask me if I drive a motorcycle so he can tell me to wear a helmet? No, because that's not his job.

I don't think there is anything sinister about this question.

Perhaps not, I don't see some vast plot, but why ask about it at all? Does your doctor ask you how much you make in income? Probably not, because it's none of his business. Unless there's a medical relevance, why ask?

 

[fskimospy]

Maybe they want to ask you about how you keep your guns because they consider a poorly kept gun to be a health risk. A doctor is there to look after the health of their patients. If you don't like the manner in which a doctor is looking after your health, find a new one.

As the article mentions, any law that prohibits doctors from discussing firearms with their patients will be slapped down by the courts ASAP.

 

[Jaskalas]

Maybe they want to ask you about how you keep your guns because they consider a poorly kept gun to be a health risk.

You've got the issue ass backwards.

Let the rednecks with poor IQs get rid of themselves before the next election.

 

[Macamus Prime]

Is that why you go to a doctor, to get his advice on safety tips? How to use your lawnmower without getting hurt? Maybe how best to open an envelope without getting a paper cut? Or how about stock tips? Since when is a doctor an expert on safety in the home, or anything other than medical issues?

Again, why? Does your doctor ask you if you look both ways when crossing the street? Does my cable guy ask me if I drive a motorcycle so he can tell me to wear a helmet? No, because that's not his job.

Perhaps not, I don't see some vast plot, but why ask about it at all? Does your doctor ask you how much you make in income? Probably not, because it's none of his business. Unless there's a medical relevance, why ask?

My Drs have told me to:
- wear sunscreen
- always wear a condom
- don't date women who are already seeing someone (like a husband/boyfriend)
- take vacation whenever possible
- encourage me on career moves

My Drs are friends. I do not seek their advice, because I already know these things. But, they are looking out for my best interests and want to ensure I am safe.

They aren't there to just patch me up and go. We talk and things lead on from there.

If talk is the sign of something "bad", seriously, fucking relax.

 

[Fear No Evil]

DIS IS AH-MURIKA!!! HOO-AH!!!

Relax.

The Dr's intentions are to ensure their patients aren't shot in the face by accident. Obama isn't asking Drs to scout out and confirm if there are armed militias he has to worry about when he sends soliders out to take away your land.

A Dr would ask; "do you drive a motorcyle?" and you would say "yes" and he would say - "be sure to wear a helmet!"

I don't think there is anything sinister about this question.

Also, when a Dr in Texas asks his patient if he has a gun, will the Texan shoot the Dr? Or just shoot him before he even gets a chance,... since the Dr is practicing all kinds of shaman-like magic and what not.

Do you support the Doctor not treating a person if they refuse to answer?

http://www.ocala.com/article/20100724/ARTICLES/7241001

I believe this is one of the incidents which triggered the law change. If the Doctor is just trying to provide safety tips (I don't consider Doctor's experts on firearm safety, but.. ) why is he refusing to treat based on the answer?

 

[PokerGuy]

As the article mentions, any law that prohibits doctors from discussing firearms with their patients will be slapped down by the courts ASAP.

That's an assumption, it remains to be seen. Florida already has such a law, and I'm not aware of any such law getting "slapped down" as of yet. I'm not in favor of such laws though for the reasons I already stated.

Maybe they want to ask you about how you keep your guns because they consider a poorly kept gun to be a health risk. A doctor is there to look after the health of their patients.

That's a major stretch. How about asking about how you use power tools? How about asking if you keep your doors locked because you could get attacked by an intruder? Asking how you store knives? Crossing the street without looking both ways? Those are all safety questions, not medically relevant questions. Doctors are not safety experts, they are medical experts.

As I said, I don't favor a law to ban doctors asking about things, but I can't think of any logical reason a doctor would ask about a gun unless they are anti-gun zealots of some sort.

 

[Thump553]

This Saturday night instead of going out to the movies instead go camp out in a major hospital ER waiting room. It should then become apparent to even the most adamant gun nut what a huge health problem guns are in the USA. The US has over 30,000 gunshot fatalities each year (admittedly about half that is suicides) and over 200,000 gunshot nonfatal injuries. The associated health care expenses are enormous.

Interesting to me that the NRA is trying to interfere with health professionals' first amendment free speech rights and to interfere in the doctor patient relationship, and no one seems to be even the slightest bit phased by that.

A discussion about gun safety is certainly within the purview of health care practice. Health care practice is not, however, within the purview of the NRA.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

That's an assumption, it remains to be seen. Florida already has such a law, and I'm not aware of any such law getting "slapped down" as of yet. I'm not in favor of such laws though for the reasons I already stated.



That's a major stretch. How about asking about how you use power tools? How about asking if you keep your doors locked because you could get attacked by an intruder? Asking how you store knives? Crossing the street without looking both ways? Those are all safety questions, not medically relevant questions. Doctors are not safety experts, they are medical experts.

As I said, I don't favor a law to ban doctors asking about things, but I can't think of any logical reason a doctor would ask about a gun unless they are anti-gun zealots of some sort.

They are, in a way, medically relevant since the doctor in many states as a legal requirement to report anyone who poses or may appear to pose a danger to themselves or others. The apparent danger or likelihood of acting on the pervceived threat may increase with the addition of gun ownership.

DO I agree? Meh. But that would be the logic behind the question.

 

[Fear No Evil]

This Saturday night instead of going out to the movies instead go camp out in a major hospital ER waiting room. It should then become apparent to even the most adamant gun nut what a huge health problem guns are in the USA. The US has over 30,000 gunshot fatalities each year (admittedly about half that is suicides) and over 200,000 gunshot nonfatal injuries. The associated health care expenses are enormous.

Interesting to me that the NRA is trying to interfere with health professionals' first amendment free speech rights and to interfere in the doctor patient relationship, and no one seems to be even the slightest bit phased by that.

A discussion about gun safety is certainly within the purview of health care practice. Health care practice is not, however, within the purview of the NRA.

Should the Doctor be allowed to refuse treatment based on the answer? Hell, we have ~35,000 automobile related deaths a year. Should the Doctor give you driving tips as well and refuse to treat if you say you drive 15 mph over the speed limit?

 

[fskimospy]

That's an assumption, it remains to be seen. Florida already has such a law, and I'm not aware of any such law getting "slapped down" as of yet. I'm not in favor of such laws though for the reasons I already stated.

It's an assumption, but a pretty safe one. I cannot think of any compelling or even rational reason why the state would have an interest in restricting a doctor's discussion of firearms.

That's a major stretch. How about asking about how you use power tools? How about asking if you keep your doors locked because you could get attacked by an intruder? Asking how you store knives? Crossing the street without looking both ways? Those are all safety questions, not medically relevant questions. Doctors are not safety experts, they are medical experts.

As I said, I don't favor a law to ban doctors asking about things, but I can't think of any logical reason a doctor would ask about a gun unless they are anti-gun zealots of some sort.

What are you getting this idea that doctors can't, don't, or shouldn't have knowledge of things like safety? Of course they do. Doctors frequently treat people who are the victims of accidents, and so they have considerable insight into the sorts of things that are likely to have you end up in a doctor's office... like a poorly kept gun. If you don't like his safety tips, find a different doctor.

We all know that if he were reminding people to store cleaning supplies out of the range of children nobody would raise an eyebrow. Instead since it's about guns, now it's a big issue.

 

[irishScott]

Yeah, I'm an NRA member and even I say they're going too far on this one.

No one's required to answer the questions, so what's the problem?

 

[Fear No Evil]

They are, in a way, medically relevant since the doctor in many states as a legal requirement to report anyone who poses or may appear to pose a danger to themselves or others. The apparent danger or likelihood of acting on the pervceived threat may increase with the addition of gun ownership.

DO I agree? Meh. But that would be the logic behind the question.

There are ~135,000 lung cancer deaths per year related to smoking. Should Doctor's be reporting parents who smoke as threats to their children? How about parents who have lead paint in their house, should Doctors report them too? How about parents who drive over the speed limit with their children in the car? Clearly a threat.

 

[Zargon]

silly NRA.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Yeah, I'm an NRA member and even I say they're going too far on this one.

No one's required to answer the questions, so what's the problem?

At least one Doctor is refusing to treat the child based on the 'non-answer'. Is that OK?

http://www.ocala.com/article/20100724/ARTICLES/7241001?tc=ar

 

[fskimospy]

There are ~135,000 lung cancer deaths per year related to smoking. Should Doctor's be reporting parents who smoke as threats to their children? How about parents who have lead paint in their house, should Doctors report them too? How about parents who drive over the speed limit with their children in the car? Clearly a threat.

Who are doctors 'reporting' people to? Did you even read the article?

 

[PokerGuy]

This Saturday night instead of going out to the movies instead go camp out in a major hospital ER waiting room. It should then become apparent to even the most adamant gun nut what a huge health problem guns are in the USA. The US has over 30,000 gunshot fatalities each year (admittedly about half that is suicides) and over 200,000 gunshot nonfatal injuries. The associated health care expenses are enormous.

That's completely irrelevant. Do you know how many people get hurt and killed in car accidents each year? Does your doctor need to ask you if you drive a car, and if so, if you speed or run a stoplight? The point is not whether guns are dangerous or not, the point is that they are not a medical issue (unless you're being treated for a gun shot).

Interesting to me that the NRA is trying to interfere with health professionals' first amendment free speech rights and to interfere in the doctor patient relationship, and no one seems to be even the slightest bit phased by that.

I already said I do not favor such laws, for that very reason. Each individual is capable of saying "none of your business" if that question is asked. I just can't see the logic in any doctor asking, unless they have some sort of anti-gun agenda.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Who are doctors 'reporting' people to? Did you even read the article?

Did you even read the message I was replying to?

 

[fskimospy]

Did you even read the message I was replying to?

Yes, nowhere did he say that gun ownership is something that you should report to the authorities, just that it's something that could be related to the risk of someone harming themselves, which is indisputably true.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Its interesting that when we have a pharmacist refusing to fill a prescription for abortion drugs, we have the left going bat shit insane over it. Have a Doctor refusing service over whether a person will answer a question about gun ownership and they are all for it. Hmm.

 

[PokerGuy]

At least one Doctor is refusing to treat the child based on the 'non-answer'. Is that OK?

http://www.ocala.com/article/20100724/ARTICLES/7241001?tc=ar

A doctor, just like anyone in any other profession should be able to decide if they want to provide service to you or not. If a doctor is so stupid as to not want someone as a patient because they didn't answer the question, they have a right to be that stupid, and hopefully they would be exposed as an idiot so patients could steer clear of that idiot.

 

[fskimospy]

Its interesting that when we have a pharmacist refusing to fill a prescription for abortion drugs, we have the left going bat shit insane over it. Have a Doctor refusing service over whether a person will answer a question about gun ownership and they are all for it. Hmm.

Please link to the post where a person was 'all for it'.