Clarifing the AMD Overclock situation

[Sinorf]

I am building a new game computer. Money is not a huge concern ... but I don't see a good reason to pay several hundred dollars for a minor difference. Bragging rights are not at stake here.

I have been confused with the discussions regarding the NC vs SD cores -- as well as the X2 and fx-55.

I initially thought that the xp-55 was the hands down leader... but as I read more (probably a bad idea) I seem to be getting mixed messages regarding the fact that some of the other processors are OCable to higher speeds than the FX and cost a great deal less.

Also, I want to confirm that the X2s currently don't provide sufficient increases in speed to warrent their much higher prices...at least in the near future.

As I am building this machine from scratch, the only thing I know for sure is that I will be using 4 WD Raptor HDs in RAID 0-1 configuration, 2 megs of RAM (most likely Corsair Twinx204803200C2 and the Asus A8n-SLI with two good graphic cards.

So what is the recommendation for kick-ass processor... I will be doing some OCing...but don't expect to get into the extreeme OCing this time around.

Thanks in advance,

David

 

[ryanv12]

FX-57...coming out really soon. Also, as long as you get the FX processors based on the San Diego core, they should (in general) be able to overclock higher.

However, if you were to spend $1000 on a processor, I'd still get a X2 4800+, or a 4400+ if you dont want to spend hundreds extra for a little performance.

If you're going to stay with single core, the San Diego core 3700+ is probably the best bang for your buck on the high end.

 

[n7]

San Diego is your friend whether in a 3700+ or an FX-55.

Since it sounds like you have $$$ to burn, I would go for the X2 4800+ however. Overall the best choice.

BTW, 4 Raptors is just silly.
Get 2 for RAID-0 & then a couple 400 GB HDDs for storage.

 

[RichUK]

Originally posted by: n7
San Diego is your friend whether in a 3700+ or an FX-55.

Since it sounds like you have $$$ to burn, I would go for the X2 4800+ however. Overall the best choice.

BTW, 4 Raptors is just silly.
Get 2 for RAID-0 & then a couple 400 GB HDDs for storage.

Pure truth there my friend

 

[MobiusPizza]

Originally posted by: RichUK

Originally posted by: n7
San Diego is your friend whether in a 3700+ or an FX-55.

Since it sounds like you have $$$ to burn, I would go for the X2 4800+ however. Overall the best choice.

BTW, 4 Raptors is just silly.
Get 2 for RAID-0 & then a couple 400 GB HDDs for storage.

Pure truth there my friend

Well I would live happily with 4 Raptors RAID 5

 

[RichUK]

Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX

Originally posted by: RichUK

Originally posted by: n7
San Diego is your friend whether in a 3700+ or an FX-55.

Since it sounds like you have $$$ to burn, I would go for the X2 4800+ however. Overall the best choice.

BTW, 4 Raptors is just silly.
Get 2 for RAID-0 & then a couple 400 GB HDDs for storage.

Pure truth there my friend

Well I would live happily with 4 Raptors RAID 5

yeah defo if i had the cash i would buy 8 , scrap that i wouuld just go SCSI and boom in some 15K cheetah's ... now that would cain but be stupidly expensive

 

[Sinorf]

BTW, 4 Raptors is just silly.

Just seemed that I wanted Raid 0 -- But hate the idea of a drive failing... so I thought I would mirror them.

Money isn't a huge issue, but I don't have it to burn. There is a HUGE difference in price between the 3700+ and the X2 4800+ --- and I don't see where any of the reviews place the 4800+ that much better performace wise.

Am I on track here? I am leaning towards the 3700+ -- I take it also that the 4000+ at 150$ more than the 3700+ isn't a significant improvement as well.

 

[n7]

The 3700+ would be an excellent choice.
It'll have no trouble hitting the same speed as a 4000+, & you may it get it to around FX-55 levels depending on how lucky you get OCing

 

[Serpentor]

I don't mean to bankrupt AMD or incite a flamewar here with all the power buyers, but if you're simply putting together a gaming system, don't waste your $ on a flashy overpriced FX or X2. You won't see the difference at these speeds, just check out the great hardware review of Battlefield 2 on Gamespot today. Going from a 4000+ to a 3000+ had no change in performance.

Spend your money on a high-end video card and opt for a lower-end Venice, then overclock to the sky. You'll hit FX speeds easily and spend hundreds less.

 

[Markfw]

What is it you do with this system ? The X2 might be for you. Its easy to make a 4800+ out of a 4400+, take my word for it, I have one.

 

[Sinorf]

This is basically a gaming machine.

 

[Leper Messiah]

go with the cheapest X2 you can find, and OC that.

If you want a really fast hdd subsystem, a PCI-e SCSI card and 4 74GB Cheeta's in RAID5 (or 0+1, something like that) for your programs, and a bunch of 400GB's for data would be the best bet.

I don't really see the need for 2GB's of RAM, and I'm not sure how well it overclocks these days (back in the day 1GB sticks OC'd like crap) Maybe 2x512 1T will do alright.

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: Sinorf
This is basically a gaming machine.

Depending on your upgrading philosophy, you could buy an affordable single core CPU now (which wouldn't cause any detriment to performance in games), and upgrade to a dual core CPU in the future when they'll be cheaper and games will be optimized to take advantage of them.

Basically, buy dual core now if you use any of these: Photoshop, 3dsmax, Maya, certain high-end multitrack audio software, softsynths, and many CPU-intensive scientific analysis packages. If you're a gamer, save your money for elsewhere unless you anticipate that you won't be upgrading your X2 for some time even after multi-threaded games come out.

 

[Vegitto]

Okay... Here we go..

X2 4400+
MSI K8N NEO Platinum
7800 GTX (x2)
512 MB OCZ VX (x2)
Need I go further? Yes.
Seagate Cheeta 15K SCSI (x4)
Any 400GB drive (x4)
That's about it.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Originally posted by: Sinorf

BTW, 4 Raptors is just silly.

Just seemed that I wanted Raid 0 -- But hate the idea of a drive failing... so I thought I would mirror them.

Money isn't a huge issue, but I don't have it to burn. There is a HUGE difference in price between the 3700+ and the X2 4800+ --- and I don't see where any of the reviews place the 4800+ that much better performace wise.

Am I on track here? I am leaning towards the 3700+ -- I take it also that the 4000+ at 150$ more than the 3700+ isn't a significant improvement as well.

I have the 3700+ and I highly recommend it for a gaming machine. Mine runs at 2.8ghz on an A8N-SLI deluxe with nice temps. The only reason to go for X2 at this point, is if you want to do heavy multi tasking like gaming while encoding videos. It will be quite some time before games are multithreaded 1-2yrs? until then a San Diego running 2.8ghz+ will be the ultimate gaming CPU

For hard drives go 2x74 raid0 and a pair of 7200rpm SATA drives in Raid1 for storage.
Keep your OS and Apps that can be reloaded from disc on the raptors, and keep your data on the Raid1 array for security. IMO the failure risks with raptors Raid0 is blown out of proportions, raptors are very good enterprize quality HD's with high MTBF numbers and if properly used are very dependable. They do run a little hotter than 7200rpm drives so if you stack them on top of each other in a poorly vented case it can cause problems. If you put some space between them and make sure you have above average ventalation in your case you will be fine.

 

[lytalbayre]

I suggest:
3700+ San Diego with an XP-120 Cooler
DFI Ultra-SLI Nforce 4 board
2x512mb OCZ VX 250mhz at 2-2-2-5
2x 7800 GTX
2x74GB Raptors RAID 0
2xMaxtor maxline III 300 GB 16mb cache RAID1
Audigy 2ZS
PC Power and Cooling 600 Watt SLI PSU
Lian-li aluminum case
Logitech THX 5.1 speakers
Logitech 518 laser mouse
Keyboard
Nice 21" CRT monitor or if LCD get hyundai Ld90+ (Maybe x2)

 

[Aries64]

Originally posted by: Vegitto
Okay... Here we go..

X2 4400+
MSI K8N NEO Platinum
7800 GTX (x2)
512 MB OCZ VX (x2)
Need I go further? Yes.
Seagate Cheeta 15K SCSI (x4)
Any 400GB drive (x4)
That's about it.

Not to nitpick vegitto's rig suggestion to death, but if you do get an Nforce3 MSI board you will need to K8N Neo2 (not the K8N Neo, which is for Socket 754). All X2s' are Socket 939.

Also, MSI is currently working on an "official" BIOS to fully support the X2s'. While the latest official MSI BIOS for the K8N Neo2 will boot and run your an X2 fine, the 1.8 BIOS is not SMP aware (it won't recognize the second core of an X2, so using BIOS 1.8 won't get you the benefit of the X2).

Markfw900 is successfully overclocking his 4400+ X2 on a K8N Neo2 with a beta BIOS (1.95b). Both Markfw900 and Duvie have confirmed that some popular BIOS tweaks are currently missing. I think Duvie said that MSI will have an "official" BIOS out for the K8N Neo2 at the end of June, though.

Personally, though, if I were going to build a new rig from scratch I would go Nforce4 as most of them have been confirmed to fully support X2s' with teh latest BIOS'. Heres a link to the XtremeSystems Forums where "Confirmed X2 Support" is noted for mobos':

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65097

 

[Vegitto]

Originally posted by: Aries64

Originally posted by: Vegitto
Okay... Here we go..

X2 4400+
MSI K8N NEO Platinum
7800 GTX (x2)
512 MB OCZ VX (x2)
Need I go further? Yes.
Seagate Cheeta 15K SCSI (x4)
Any 400GB drive (x4)
That's about it.

Not to nitpick vegitto's rig suggestion to death, but if you do get an Nforce3 MSI board you will need to K8N Neo2 (not the K8N Neo, which is for Socket 754). All X2s' are Socket 939.

Also, MSI is currently working on an "official" BIOS to fully support the X2s'. While the latest official MSI BIOS for the K8N Neo2 will boot and run your an X2 fine, the 1.8 BIOS is not SMP aware (it won't recognize the second core of an X2, so using BIOS 1.8 won't get you the benefit of the X2).

Markfw900 is successfully overclocking his 4400+ X2 on a K8N Neo2 with a beta BIOS (1.95b). Both Markfw900 and Duvie have confirmed that some popular BIOS tweaks are currently missing. I think Duvie said that MSI will have an "official" BIOS out for the K8N Neo2 at the end of June, though.

Personally, though, if I were going to build a new rig from scratch I would go Nforce4 as most of them have been confirmed to fully support X2s' with teh latest BIOS'. Heres a link to the XtremeSystems Forums where "Confirmed X2 Support" is noted for mobos':

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65097

Sorry, missed that extra 2. Thanks for noticing, though.

 

[Appledrop]

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: Aries64

Originally posted by: Vegitto
Okay... Here we go..

X2 4400+
MSI K8N NEO Platinum
7800 GTX (x2)
512 MB OCZ VX (x2)
Need I go further? Yes.
Seagate Cheeta 15K SCSI (x4)
Any 400GB drive (x4)
That's about it.

Not to nitpick vegitto's rig suggestion to death, but if you do get an Nforce3 MSI board you will need to K8N Neo2 (not the K8N Neo, which is for Socket 754). All X2s' are Socket 939.

since he said 2x7800gtx, clearly he meant an SLI board. Therefore it would be the K8N Neo4

 

[Duvie]

the difference between the 4800+ and FX is minor now even in games..some games actually show th e4800+ beating the FX55...when you have a situation like this the best thing would be to think whre could games be in possibly 1 years time..

With Intel needing to push dual core for it saving face of a lacklusetr PC lineup of late I think we will see multithreaded games taking off...with 4800 or any X2 you will be set for that with "like power in reserve"...

Plus throw in those basic trivial things you do on the pC that you dont even realize steal cycle from you...X2's wil handle those wit hno degradation to your game....