Civilian or not civilan

[Islamistani]

As Israel has universal conscription, would every Israeli be not a member of IDF, excluding those under 18 ofcourse. Why are they counted as civilian deaths? They are trained for 3 years (men) or 21 months (women). That should make them a military target. Can someone clarify?

 

[jrenz]

Are they combatants or non-combatants? End of discussion.

 

[Harvey]

Mandatory conscription does not mean eternal conscription. They're not all in the service at the same time. If you want to pick a fight with an Israeli soldier, find someone in uniform, or at least on active duty in a combat zone. If they're at home and out of uniform, they're civilians.

 

[Aisengard]

Of course, that opens the door for Islamistani to count the Hezbollah combatants as civilian deaths as well, since they were wearing civilian clothes.

Terrorist aplogists FTL.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Harvey
Mandatory conscription does not mean eternal conscription. They're not all in the service at the same time. If you want to pick a fight with an Israeli soldier, find someone in uniform, or at least on active duty in a combat zone. If they're at home and out of uniform, they're civilians.

so what about the members of hamas, etc who are at home when they are killed? are they civilians?

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: Aisengard
Of course, that opens the door for Islamistani to count the Hezbollah combatants as civilian deaths as well, since they were wearing civilian clothes.

Terrorist aplogists FTL.

Most of the time, terrorist/enemy combatants are counted as civilian in the eyes of the media when tallying deaths, as they are not officially "soldiers", hence the often over-inflated numbers.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Aisengard
Of course, that opens the door for Islamistani to count the Hezbollah combatants as civilian deaths as well, since they were wearing civilian clothes.

Terrorist aplogists FTL.

Except that even if they are wearing civilian clothes, then they could still be active members of Hezbollah.

Anyways, the original post is extremely 'scary' in a sense. It makes you wonder about some people.

 

[Aisengard]

I know, I was just guessing the mindset of the OP.

 

[Islamistani]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Harvey
Mandatory conscription does not mean eternal conscription. They're not all in the service at the same time. If you want to pick a fight with an Israeli soldier, find someone in uniform, or at least on active duty in a combat zone. If they're at home and out of uniform, they're civilians.

so what about the members of hamas, etc who are at home when they are killed? are they civilians?

That is an extension of my question...

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Harvey
Mandatory conscription does not mean eternal conscription. They're not all in the service at the same time. If you want to pick a fight with an Israeli soldier, find someone in uniform, or at least on active duty in a combat zone. If they're at home and out of uniform, they're civilians.

so what about the members of hamas, etc who are at home when they are killed? are they civilians?

If they are no longer in such organization and have no significant involvement in it, then sure. But going to sleep at night doesn't mean that you're not a member of the organization.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Except that even if they are wearing civilian clothes, then they could still be active members of Hezbollah.

Hezbollah has dedicated itself to the destruction of Israel. If members of the "political" wing of Hezbollah or Hammas voluntarily call themselves by the same name as the "military" wing of Hezbollah or Hammas, it no longer matters what they're wearing. They named themselves as combatants.

 

[jackschmittusa]

As far as the Isrealis go, if they are not on active duty, they are civilians. Even our National Guard members are civilians when their units are not active.

 

[Islamistani]

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
As far as the Isrealis go, if they are not on active duty, they are civilians. Even our National Guard members are civilians when their units are not active.

Then following your statement, Harvey's claim would be incorrect. Or if I read that wrong, Harvey is tryng to say that having a politcal agenda/ideology makes an individual a combatant? Apparently there is much dispute to the clarification of the term "civilian" in this context?

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: Islamistani

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
As far as the Isrealis go, if they are not on active duty, they are civilians. Even our National Guard members are civilians when their units are not active.

Then following your statement, Harvey's claim would be incorrect. Or if I read that wrong, Harvey is tryng to say that having a politcal agenda/ideology makes an individual a combatant? Apparently there is much dispute to the clarification of the term "civilian" in this context?

I don't know about Isreal but in the United States when in the National Guard And Reserve if you are off duty you must turn all military weapons in to the arms room and except for being recalled you are subject to civilian authority and outside of commisary and px privileges the military will not back you up if you go on a personal ideological mission

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: Islamistani
As Israel has universal conscription, would every Israeli be not a member of IDF, excluding those under 18 ofcourse. Why are they counted as civilian deaths? They are trained for 3 years (men) or 21 months (women). That should make them a military target. Can someone clarify?

It doesn't matter if Hizballah attacks soldiers or civilians, they are still wrong in both cases, only more wrong and more cowardly in the latter case.

What do you expect from a group of people who train their children to blow themselves up and kill other children

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: Islamistani
As Israel has universal conscription, would every Israeli be not a member of IDF, excluding those under 18 ofcourse. Why are they counted as civilian deaths? They are trained for 3 years (men) or 21 months (women). That should make them a military target. Can someone clarify?

Well, since the Lebanese and Syrians are also subject to compulsory military service, I would guess you'll want to amend your statement. :laugh:

 

[jackschmittusa]

Civilians can be part of an organised or unorganised militia. Militias may constitute a legitamate target during conflict.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Islamistani

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
As far as the Isrealis go, if they are not on active duty, they are civilians. Even our National Guard members are civilians when their units are not active.

Then following your statement, Harvey's claim would be incorrect. Or if I read that wrong, Harvey is tryng to say that having a politcal agenda/ideology makes an individual a combatant?

Only if the subhuman animal's agenda is to slaughter civilians.