Civilian Casualties Under Trump Greater Than Previous 8 Years

bradly1101

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May 5, 2013
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I know this has been discussed before in specific areas, but things have really ramped up overall. Is this the result of delegating decisions to the military? Doesn't this help ISIS (et al.)?

"When President Donald Trump took office in January, it was unclear whether the bombast from his campaign would translate into an aggressive new strategy against terrorism. At campaign rallies he pledged to “bomb the hell” out of the Islamic State. He openly mused about killing the families of terrorists, a blatant violation of the Geneva Conventions, which prohibits violence against noncombatants.

Ten months into his presidency, a clearer picture is emerging. The data indicate several alarming trends.

According to research from the nonprofit monitoring group Airwars, the first seven months of the Trump administration have already resulted in more civilian deaths than under the entirety of the Obama administration. Airwars reports that under Obama’s leadership, the fight against IS led to approximately 2,300 to 3,400 civilian deaths. Through the first seven months of the Trump administration, they estimate that coalition air strikes have killed between 2,800 and 4,500 civilians.
[It's been nine months now with promises from Trump to hit them (edit: ISIS) ten times harder than they hit us]

Researchers also point to another stunning trend – the “frequent killing of entire families in likely coalition airstrikes.” In May, for example, such actions led to the deaths of at least 57 women and 52 children in Iraq and Syria.

The vast increase in civilian deaths is not limited to the anti-IS campaign. In Afghanistan, the U.N. reports a 67 percent increase in civilian deaths from U.S. airstrikes in the first six months of 2017 compared to the first half of 2016."

https://www.salon.com/2017/10/20/under-trump-presidency-us-airstrikes-kill-more-civilians_partner-2/
 
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FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
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This is only half Trump's fault. The other half of the blame goes straight to our bloodthirsty military leaders such as Snoop Dogg Mattis and Gen. McMasturbate. They have sanctioned war crimes all over the world.

One day we will all, as Americans, have to pay the price for these indiscretions committed by our armed forces. We are arguably already paying for them.

I suppose Mattis has somewhat of an excuse in his being totally high. He probably doesn't have any idea what's really going on. He's bumping Cypress Hill "hits from the bong" all day and popping percs.
 
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J.Wilkins

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Jun 5, 2017
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This is only half Trump's fault. The other half of the blame goes straight to our bloodthirsty military leaders such as Snoop Dogg Mattis and Gen. McMasturbate. They have sanctioned war crimes all over the world.

One day we will all, as Americans, have to pay the price for these indiscretions committed by our armed forces. We are arguably already paying for them.

I suppose Mattis has somewhat of an excuse in his being totally high. He probably doesn't have any idea what's really going on. He's bumping Cypress Hill "hits from the bong" all day and popping percs.

You're an idiot. Policy being enacted in these matters reflects ONLY on the commander in chief even if it was others that got him to sign off on it.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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This is only half Trump's fault. The other half of the blame goes straight to our bloodthirsty military leaders such as Snoop Dogg Mattis and Gen. McMasturbate. They have sanctioned war crimes all over the world.

One day we will all, as Americans, have to pay the price for these indiscretions committed by our armed forces. We are arguably already paying for them.

I suppose Mattis has somewhat of an excuse in his being totally high. He probably doesn't have any idea what's really going on. He's bumping Cypress Hill "hits from the bong" all day and popping percs.

It's actually pretty much all Trump's fault for palming off the responsibility to evaluate potential airstrikes to the military and DoD. The WH has a moral responsibility to exercise oversight when it comes to dropping bombs in areas where their may be civilians. Trump is CiC, not Mattis.
 

FIVR

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Jun 1, 2016
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It's actually pretty much all Trump's fault for palming off the responsibility to evaluate potential airstrikes to the military and DoD. The WH has a moral responsibility to exercise oversight when it comes to dropping bombs in areas where their may be civilians. Trump is CiC, not Mattis.

I guess that's a good point. Mattis is way too high to be making decisions like this.


Trump on the other hand is a teetotaler. He has no excuse
 

FIVR

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Jun 1, 2016
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You're an idiot. Policy being enacted in these matters reflects ONLY on the commander in chief even if it was others that got him to sign off on it.

Nuh uh.

Shouldn't you be concerning yourself more with 401k contribution limits on US tax returns? This topic seems way too British for you.
 

J.Wilkins

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Jun 5, 2017
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Nuh uh.

Shouldn't you be concerning yourself more with 401k contribution limits on US tax returns? This topic seems way too British for you.

Do you think that US policies only affect people living in the US?

If you do you are an idiot.

If you don't, your reply is stupid.

So... Are you an idiot or are you just stupid?
 

bradly1101

Diamond Member
May 5, 2013
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This is only half Trump's fault. The other half of the blame goes straight to our bloodthirsty military leaders such as Snoop Dogg Mattis and Gen. McMasturbate. They have sanctioned war crimes all over the world.

One day we will all, as Americans, have to pay the price for these indiscretions committed by our armed forces. We are arguably already paying for them.

I suppose Mattis has somewhat of an excuse in his being totally high. He probably doesn't have any idea what's really going on. He's bumping Cypress Hill "hits from the bong" all day and popping percs.
We also have this bizarre strategy to drop leaflets from planes warning civilians to get out of the city (many obviously find this very difficult, and it gives a heads up to the enemy to leave and regroup), then we decimate the city, call it unlivable, and therefore declare victory. That's a win? I know it's great for the bomb/plane makers, but we're leaving whole regions in ruins.
 

bradly1101

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May 5, 2013
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Policy being enacted in these matters reflects ONLY on the commander in chief even if it was others that got him to sign off on it.
True, policy goes to Trump, but increasingly strategy is left up to the military. Maybe Trump wants to (mistakenly) have deniability for these reckless decisions. "Ill-advised" doesn't seem to be in his vocabulary.
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
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Trump is the perfect textbook example of a cowardly bombastic chickenhawk. The worst kind of fowl to have nuclear misssiles attached to its wings.

Please Repubs, I beg of you with whipped cream, walnuts and a cherry on top, get a fvck'in grip on this flying freak you guys built on our dime even if that's who you think is the perfect cuckoo for the job.
 
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FIVR

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Jun 1, 2016
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We also have this bizarre strategy to drop leaflets from planes warning civilians to get out of the city (many obviously find this very difficult, and it gives a heads up to the enemy to leave and regroup), then we decimate the city, call it unlivable, and therefore declare victory. That's a win? I know it's great for the bomb/plane makers, but we're leaving whole regions in ruins.

Trump said it himself - You have to go after their families.


It is appalling that our military is basically an international terrorist organization (not unlike the IRCG), but it's nothing new. We did the same shit in Vietnam and Korea.


Hopefully China will get a handle on us when our economy crashes.
 

J.Wilkins

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True, policy goes to Trump, but increasingly strategy is left up to the military. Maybe Trump wants to (mistakenly) have deniability for these reckless decisions. "Ill-advised" doesn't seem to be in his vocabulary.

I don't think so, I think that more than ever before this is being handled by policy makers through Trump that gives the orders to the military.
 

bradly1101

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I don't think so, I think that more than ever before this is being handled by policy makers through Trump that gives the orders to the military.
Maybe. But I can also see Trump telling military leaders, "Do whatever you have to (edit: or want to) do, what you think is right." Give a bat to a violent kid, and he'll swing it.
 
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J.Wilkins

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Maybe. But I can also see Trump telling military leaders, "Do whatever you have to do, what you think is right." Give a bat to a violent kid, and he'll swing it.

Oh I could see that but the policy makers have been setting the climate for how the military has acted, have they not?

Does it not then make sense that they are acting through Trump to get what they want done and considering who they are, were, have been ... it's a mess... doesn't that just scare the everliving shit out of you if you think about it?

The only think worse than that would be if Trump actually was in charge... He'd nuke Canada if he felt insulted.
 

bradly1101

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May 5, 2013
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Oh I could see that but the policy makers have been setting the climate for how the military has acted, have they not?

Does it not then make sense that they are acting through Trump to get what they want done and considering who they are, were, have been ... it's a mess... doesn't that just scare the everliving shit out of you if you think about it?

The only think worse than that would be if Trump actually was in charge... He'd nuke Canada if he felt insulted.

Yes and yes. And yes, who could not be at least unsettled by all this? Maybe that's why it's easier for some to fixate on "Pocahontas."
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
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I find Trump's regard for civilians to be positively Putin-esque. What a coincidence.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
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You're an idiot. Policy being enacted in these matters reflects ONLY on the commander in chief even if it was others that got him to sign off on it.


I disagree. Did the policies on the Nazi regime reflect only on Hitler? Himmler and the others not so much because Hitler was the top dog? It’s never just one person.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
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You're an idiot. Policy being enacted in these matters reflects ONLY on the commander in chief even if it was others that got him to sign off on it.
He's only an idiot in that he thinks his posts will somehow affect change in our military. He's a Russian. For some reason, Putin has a hardon for certain generals.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
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The good news is that some historians see American interventionism as the last gasps of a dying empire. These meaningless butcheries in foreign lands are destined to end sooner than later. The bad news is that life in America could really suck after 2030. We are trending fascist oligarchical as a nation and that trend looks to accelerate.

He describes the coming 2020s as a “demoralizing decade of rising prices, stagnant wages, and fading international competitiveness.” He blames decades of growing deficits on “incessant warfare in distant lands”. By 2030, the U.S. dollar will lose its status as the world’s dominant reserve currency, marking the empire’s loss of influence.

This change will prompt dramatic price increases for American imports. Costs on overseas travel for tourists and troops will increase as well. Washington will be forced to slash its budget, causing a pullback and shrinking of American forces. Like a “fading superpower incapable of paying its bills,” America will then be continuously challenged by powers like China, Russia, Iran and others for control over “ the oceans, space, and cyberspace.”

Domestically, the changes in America’s power will lead to a worsening of the standard of living, with skyrocketing prices and tensions that will lead to a “major rewriting of the American social contract,” according to McCoy.

http://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/the...re-will-come-by-2030-predicts-famed-historian