*Civil War Thread*

[RapidSnail]

I have several friends who are from the South. As such, they are huge on the Civil War. Of course since I'm a Northerner, we frequently debate about it. I decided to create this thread as an area for debate and discussion about Civil War topics.

I'll kick it off by asking whether you view Lincoln's choice to preserve the Union through war was right or wrong. (My southern friends believe it was wrong, that's why I ask.)

 

[SVT Cobra]

General James Longstreet: If Lee listened to him, would the outcome have been much different?

 

[Jawo]

Lincoln's choice on what? Suspending Habeaus Corpus? Being slightly delusional (History Channel Special)?

I would be suprised if this was a popular topic on ATOT with users who havent taken US history in HS yet......

 

[RapidSnail]

Rephrased, my question was whether or not you view Lincoln's instigation of the war to end slavery as right or wrong.

 

[Taggart]

I think someone needs to learn the definition of Communism.

 

[Taggart]

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Lincoln's instigation of the war to end slavery

Strike 2: the war began to preserve the union, not end slavery

 

[RapidSnail]

I say communistic because the friends I mentioned in the first post strongly believe that whether it's the correct term or not.

 

[RapidSnail]

Ok Taggart you got me . I guess why I'm asking these questions in this manner is that's what I'm being told from my Southern friends. Obviously they are quite bigoted against the Union, and my view of the war has been somewhat twisted as a result. Time to do some reading .

 

[Taggart]

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Ok Taggart you got me . I guess why I'm asking these questions in this manner is that's what I'm being told from my Southern friends. Obviously they are quite bigoted against the Union, and my view of the war has been somewhat twisted as a result. Time to do some reading .

I recommend 'Battle Cry of Freedom' by James M. McPherson. Probably the best 1 volume history of the Civil War.

If you want to go deeper read Shelby Foote's 3 volume history.

Believe it or not Wikipedia is a good source of Civil War info. Especially if you want to learn about specific generals, battles, etc.

 

[RapidSnail]

Thanks for the recommendations. I'll probably start with Wikipedia for a primer. I just hope that its a nuetral viewpoint so I can draw my own conclusions.

I feel ashamed for being so ignorant .

BTW, keep this thread alive, I want to see what kind of interesting discussions will come out of it.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
General James Longstreet: If Lee listened to him, would the outcome have been much different?

thats an un-answerable question.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
General James Longstreet: If Lee listened to him, would the outcome have been much different?

I suspect that the loss of Jackson and the compromise of General Order 191 hurt Lee much more than not following a purely defensive strategy such as advocated by Longstreet.

 

[amdforever2]

Everyone knows it was gods intent to have negros in the fields, women in the kitchen, and fags drug behind pickup trucks right Rapidsnail?

Clearly Lincoln was a satanist.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: amdforever2
Everyone knows it was gods intent to have negros in the fields, women in the kitchen, and fags drug behind pickup trucks right Rapidsnail?

Clearly Lincoln was a satanist.

This is the kind of silly crap you will have to deal with when trying to discuss something like this on ATOT. :roll:

 

[amdforever2]

Is there something wrong with summarizing Rapidsnails ideology?


Actually, I am mentally ill according to him. I should probably be locked away.

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: Taggart

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Ok Taggart you got me . I guess why I'm asking these questions in this manner is that's what I'm being told from my Southern friends. Obviously they are quite bigoted against the Union, and my view of the war has been somewhat twisted as a result. Time to do some reading .

I recommend 'Battle Cry of Freedom' by James M. McPherson. Probably the best 1 volume history of the Civil War.

If you want to go deeper read Shelby Foote's 3 volume history.

Believe it or not Wikipedia is a good source of Civil War info. Especially if you want to learn about specific generals, battles, etc.

Another :thumbsup: for Battle Cry of Freedom

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: amdforever2
Is there something wrong with summarizing Rapidsnails ideology?


Actually, I am mentally ill according to him. I should probably be locked away.

While calling Lincoln communistic was somewhat silly, criticism of his aims and methods during the Civil War hardly constitute automatic approval of "fags drug behind pickup trucks" and the other inflamatory nonsense you posted.

 

[Sentinel]

I don't understand the question. But I'll check out the wiki pages.

 

[amdforever2]

Originally posted by: Linflas

Originally posted by: amdforever2
Is there something wrong with summarizing Rapidsnails ideology?


Actually, I am mentally ill according to him. I should probably be locked away.

While calling Lincoln communistic was somewhat silly, criticism of his aims and methods during the Civil War hardly constitute automatic approval of "fags drug behind pickup trucks" and the other inflamatory nonsense you posted.

Analysis of Rapidsnails other posts in other threads might give you more insight into his brilliant political philosophy.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: Linflas

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
General James Longstreet: If Lee listened to him, would the outcome have been much different?

I suspect that the loss of Jackson and the compromise of General Order 191 hurt Lee much more than not following a purely defensive strategy such as advocated by Longstreet.

Agreed, the south needed to cause the yankees to lose interest in the war by causing terrible casualties to the union army, win a major victory on union soil, and thus forcing them to seek a diplomatic solution and recognizing the south's independence.

The major victory on union soil never came, and the south was defeated by a superiorly equipped zerg army.

 

[RapidSnail]

Let's clear this up. I am not trying to offend anyone at all through starting this thread. Perhaps I used wrong terms, and I apologize for that. That was my own ignorance.

The reason that I used the term "communistic" in my initial question was because the friends I debate with truly believe that was how Lincoln was acting. I am not doing this to offend anyone. I am asking questions in the context of what others have told me to see whether you agree or not.

If I am unknowingly doing something wrong/against the rules, please do not refrain from letting me know. However, to my knowledge I am not doing anything wrong.

 

[amdforever2]

Considering communism is a economic idea it certainly doesn't apply to what Lincoln did.

 

[K1052]

The Southern states were the ones to actually start the war when they fired on the Star of the West and eventually Fort Sumter.

Lincoln had little political interest in freeing the slaves, though personally he despised the practice of slavery. The emancipation proclamation was largely a strategic measure calculated to keep the British out of the war (once the CSA attacked the issue of slavery was decided anyway, it would be abolished nationwide once the Union put down the rebellion). The causes of the civil war were numerous (slavery, state power, economics, trade, etc?) though the real catalyst was the southern states power over the federal government had badly eroded as the north became increasingly industrialized and its population rapidly increased. The southern sway in congress was greatly reduced by the congressional elections of 1856 and Lincoln?s subsequent winning of the presidency in 1860 convinced many southern states that the Union was firmly in the control of their political and economic enemies.

 

[RapidSnail]

I believe that the South truly had the better leaders and soldiers. However, the Union had the advantages of sheer numbers and the weapons factories.

 

[XMan]

Originally posted by: K1052
The Southern states were the ones to actually start the war when they fired on the Star of the West and eventually Fort Sumter.

Lincoln had little political interest in freeing the slaves, though personally he despised the practice of slavery. The emancipation proclamation was largely a strategic measure calculated to keep the British out of the war (once the CSA attacked the issue of slavery was decided anyway, it would be abolished nationwide once the Union put down the rebellion). The causes of the civil war were numerous (slavery, state power, economics, trade, etc?) though the real catalyst was the southern states power over the federal government had badly eroded as the north became increasingly industrialized and its population rapidly increased. The southern sway in congress was greatly reduced by the congressional elections of 1856 and Lincoln?s subsequent winning of the presidency in 1860 convinced many southern states that the Union was firmly in the control of their political and economic enemies.

The emancipation proclamation also, IIRC, only applied to the southern states. It didn't free slaves in the union.