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Civil/Criminal Penalties For Illegal Downloads.

R

ricleo2

Golden Member
Can somebody supply a link that shows the penalities for illegally downloading games, movies, and music? Are there statistics on convictions for this? I want to try to get a relative to stop the practice. Thanks for any response.
 
Criminal penalties seem few and far between, unless you are a major distributor of illegal content (usually selling said content on the black market).

Civil penalties - just search for one of the thousands of lawsuits the RIAA has raised against citizens downloading or sharing MP3 files.
 
You're not going to scare a relative off of downloading with stats. He only has to worry about criminal penalties if he's a big time distributor, and even with the thousands of civil suits against downloaders, probably still less than .01% of downloaders have been sued. And the record companies recently announced that they are going to stop suing individual music downloaders, so it seems like their legal strategy might be changing anyway.
 
Like others have said, there's a VERY low chance anything will happen aside from their ISP sending them warning letters and eventually dropping them.
Uploaders are at greater risk than downloaders. (Not seeders, original uploaders/providers of content).
Sorry we aren't really helping you win the argument are we. 😉
 
If your ISP finds out, they will ban you from the internet. I think that is reason enough to stop downloading!
 
Originally posted by: Hacp
If your ISP finds out, they will ban you from the internet. I think that is reason enough to stop downloading!
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They send you a nastygram first though. They won't just pull the plug without contacting you first. I don't think they really care either, as long as you aren't using a huge amount of bandwidth. They generally will only get involved after a content owner complaint.
 
Stuff isn't free. If your relative doesn't understand this concept and self-limit his conduct accordingly, he has a personality flaw that isn't going to be changed by informing him of the potential risks.

Personality flaw = taking things that don't belong to you and believing its OK to do so (until you get caught, then you cry some crocodile tears and claim your parents didn't say "I love you" enough when you were a child...boo hoo).
 
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Stuff isn't free. If your relative doesn't understand this concept and self-limit his conduct accordingly, he has a personality flaw that isn't going to be changed by informing him of the potential risks.

Personality flaw = taking things that don't belong to you and believing its OK to do so (until you get caught, then you cry some crocodile tears and claim your parents didn't say "I love you" enough when you were a child...boo hoo).
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I agree. The person I am talking about really doesn't listen to anybody anyway. Spoiled brat actually.
Thanks for all the interesting responses.
 
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Stuff isn't free. If your relative doesn't understand this concept and self-limit his conduct accordingly, he has a personality flaw that isn't going to be changed by informing him of the potential risks.

Personality flaw = taking things that don't belong to you and believing its OK to do so (until you get caught, then you cry some crocodile tears and claim your parents didn't say "I love you" enough when you were a child...boo hoo).
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I think this is a gross generalization. Without advocating or condoning piracy, I would say that there are reasons people commit copyright infringement that extend beyond "personality flaws". It's a complex subject that requires discussion of morality, economics, politics, law, sociology, art, technology, and the overall dynamics of the affected industries, among others. It's an interesting subject no matter which side of the fence you might fall on, and to boil it down so condescendingly helps no one.

If the OP really wants to get involved with this, he should examine the reasons why his relative pirates entertainment content. If the relative is just a cheapskate, then you may be able to pass this off as a personality flaw.
 
Originally posted by: CoinOperatedBoy
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Stuff isn't free. If your relative doesn't understand this concept and self-limit his conduct accordingly, he has a personality flaw that isn't going to be changed by informing him of the potential risks.

Personality flaw = taking things that don't belong to you and believing its OK to do so (until you get caught, then you cry some crocodile tears and claim your parents didn't say "I love you" enough when you were a child...boo hoo).
Click to expand...

I think this is a gross generalization. Without advocating or condoning piracy, I would say that there are reasons people commit copyright infringement that extend beyond "personality flaws". It's a complex subject that requires discussion of morality, economics, politics, law, sociology, art, technology, and the overall dynamics of the affected industries, among others. It's an interesting subject no matter which side of the fence you might fall on, and to boil it down so condescendingly helps no one.

If the OP really wants to get involved with this, he should examine the reasons why his relative pirates entertainment content. If the relative is just a cheapskate, then you may be able to pass this off as a personality flaw.
Click to expand...

From what little I have read on the subject, I don't see any complexity at all. I think to make it so would be just rationalizing stealing.
 
Originally posted by: ricleo2

From what little I have read on the subject, I don't see any complexity at all. I think to make it so would be just rationalizing stealing.
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Excepting the fact that software piracy is fundamentally not theft.

-----------------------
PM sent requesting clarification

Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy
 
Originally posted by: CoinOperatedBoy
Excepting the fact that software piracy is fundamentally not theft.
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It is fundamentally theft, in spirit and the letter. There is no legal or philosophical debate here that any court would entertain. Only the artful rationalizations and justifications that people use to explain-away why their wrong-doing isn't really so wrong in the grand scheme of things. e.g. "people are out there murdering and raping, that's much worse than what I'm doing."

There are very often logically crafted and reasonable sounding excuses that can be rendered as justification for wrong-doing. Ask any veteran police officer or investigator. Nobody has ever just admitted "I steal/defraud because I want to and don't give a damn what you or anyone else thinks." There is always a long-winded excuse that attempts to minimize their culpability or even justify it. e.g. my mother didn't breast feed me, I didn't get to go to summer camp like all the other kids, rich people steal all the time so whats the big deal when I do it, nobody will miss the one I took, blah blah blah.

If the person is young, there is a good chance he/she will eventually grow out of it. I found many of these justifications and rationalizations persuasive when I was a teenager. Teenagers or young persons typically see the world as revolving around their wants, needs, desires, wishes. Most grow up and begin to see the world beyond their own nose, some don't and go on to become asswipes, sociopaths, narcissists, or criminals.
 
Horror story:

A kid in my Organic Chem class just settled with the RIAA for $4k. He was apparently too stupid to disable sharing. This was ON CAMPUS at NC State and he received no warning.
 
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Originally posted by: CoinOperatedBoy
Excepting the fact that software piracy is fundamentally not theft.
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It is fundamentally theft, in spirit and the letter.
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I will not address the rest of your generalizations, but this is patently wrong.

As clarification has been requested about my earlier remark, I say again, software piracy is not the same as theft; it's copyright infringement. They are separate crimes. Theft removes a good from the victim, whereas in the case of piracy, there is no good removed -- only copied, illegally.

It could be argued that pirates in essence are "stealing" or depriving the copyright owners of revenue, but I don't think this charge has ever been upheld in a court of law. In fact, quite the opposite: Please see Dowling v. United States (1985), in which the courts ruled on appeal that bootleg copies of copyrighted material did not constitute theft and those convictions were reversed against the defendant. A relevant passage from the delivered majority opinion:

Since the statutorily defined property rights of a copyright holder have a character distinct from the possessory interest of the owner of simple "goods, wares, [or] merchandise," interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The infringer of a copyright does not assume physical control over the copyright nor wholly deprive its owner of its use. Infringement implicates a more complex set of property interests than does run-of-the-mill theft, conversion, or fraud.
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So, as you can see, even the justices involved in this case acknowledge that copyright infringement is a more complex subject than simple theft or fraud. IANAL, but this is my understanding of the law as it stands today, and others have used this decision to support their own similar claims. I welcome you to prove me wrong, as I would not want to go on under a false assumption or spread misinformation.

Please note once again that I am not, in any way, encouraging piracy. It is most definitely a crime, and there are definite consequences (a summary of which the OP originally requested). Take a look at the copyright law at copyright.gov, specifically Title 17, Chapter 5. I believe you can find a description of the applicable offenses and at least a hint of where to find possible penalties.

Edit: I am also aware of the No Electronic Theft (NET) Act, which may confuse the issue a little further. In 1997, this was passed as a federal law and you can find a summary of penalties there. And even though this act may take the term "theft" in its name, please note that the act governs the applicability of criminal prosecution to non-commercial copyright infringement; in other words, again, not the specific crime of theft. Prior to this, the accused could only be sued as part of a civil action.
 
When I developed an application and sell it for $100 per copy I would expect that for each copy being used, I should receive $100.

People taking the application and using it without it being licensed are taking $100 from me each time they install the application.

That is theft.

Piracy is taking something and using it without the compensation that would happen if it was obtained legaly and in the proper manner.

What happened 20+ years ago has changed with the ascpect of newer technology and use of it.

Verbage/syntax is not an excuse for deriving someone of what is theirs.
 
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
When I developed an application and sell it for $100 per copy I would expect that for each copy being used, I should receive $100.

People taking the application and using it without it being licensed are taking $100 from me each time they install the application.

That is theft.

Piracy is taking something and using it without the compensation that would happen if it was obtained legaly and in the proper manner.

What happened 20+ years ago has changed with the ascpect of newer technology and use of it.

Verbage/syntax is not an excuse for deriving someone of what is theirs.
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Respectfully, unless there has been some change of verbage in the actual law or some precedent, your personal opinion on the definitions of theft and piracy do not matter. No one is making excuses for the actual infringement. I'm only asking thread contributors to consider the semantics because the law does as well. Since the OP was interested in the possible criminal repercussions of piracy, it would not be helpful to offer a list of penalties for theft since they do not apply.
 
One more note: I'm having trouble finding actual numbers on software/music piracy convictions. If anybody is aware of a resource like this, please share it because I'm also interested.
 
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