City Ordinance(s)

[brandonb]

A friend of mine sent me this link, his grandpa lives in this city and apparently informed him of this new lovely ordinance.

http://www.ci.crystal.mn.us/ve...69-7E0BC2E8B8AD%7D.PDF

For those who don't click on links. It basically says if your property is vacant for 30 days you have to pay a $500 and barricade it. Because they say someone may break into it and the potential calls to the police about people breaking into your house and other nuisances on your property would come at tax payers expense so they are now going to make the citizens pay it. Doesn't property tax cover that, and isn't it the owners responsibility to clean up any breakins and insurance covers that?

But it gets worse!

The thing that struck me as most abnormal:

d) Demolition Required: If a building has remained vacant for a period of 365 consecutive days, and the complaince official has not approved an aternative schedule in the property plan, the city may declare the building to be a nuisance and direct the owner to demolish the building and restore the grounds. If the owner does not demolish the building and thereby eliminate the nuisance conditions, the city may commence abatement and cost recovery proceedings for the abatement of the violation in accordance with section 425.25 of this code and Minnesota statues, section 429.101.

What if people are fixing up their houses and are not hiring an expensive construction crew and/or doing things themselves and the place is empty for a year?

What if my friends grampa moves into an old folks home and they have to sell the house and in these economic times that takes awhile?

What if you are on a prolong vacation for 30 days? Or go visit a friend in another state and stay with them for awhile? It says in an exception on that that "Snowbirds" (People who have a house in the south and spend their winters there) provided they can prove it.

When its reoccupied you have to pay for a $125 renters permit (and inspection) or $125 housing inspection (if you happen to be an owner.) And the city will come and force you to fix up anything in your house which they aren't happy with within 30 days. And if you don't fix up your property as they see fit, you are stuck with additional fines on a bi-weekly basis ($150-$400 every other week).

Something just seems wrong with this ordinance. My friend said its a violation of the consititution because the government can't force people to do things to their own property as they see fit for the reasons they provide, but I'm not sure of that.

 

[Moonbeam]

How about DMV tags. They are required to park in the public street. How about a law that says your vehicle has to be registered to park in your driveway?

 

[waggy]

yeah thats a little insane. but nothing you could do about it.

 

[brandonb]

Originally posted by: waggy
yeah thats a little insane. but nothing you could do about it.

Looking over their PDF, they are saying shit like your windows have to be able to withstand pressure of someone trying to break in. (Basement windows I'm guessing). But what if they don't? You can't leave your house for more than 30 days or be required to get all new windows and pay alot of $$$?

I understand if someone is gone for more than 30 days the weeds will grow and needs ot be cut. Ok. No problem, get a company to come mow your yard. But they are basically trying to force people with this ordinance to have their house up to the cities standards. "If you don't like it, don't have your house unoccupied for 30 days."

It also says if the property is unoccupied for more than 30 days, the city may demand that you turn off your utilities, and you have to get approval from the city in order to get them turned back on (subject to their inspections and such)

I don't know if that's the definition of a free country.

 

[ZzZGuy]

Reminds me of a guy I once worked with in Alberta. He came from Saskatchewan and was away from home months at a time so he shut off his electricity and water to save a bit of money.

He goes back home on a 4 day break to find his home and everything he owned leveled to the ground and gone leaving him with only the two bags of stuff he had taken with him. Turns out a cop next door didn't like his porch and asked the city to condemn the building, which they did without notifying the owner, thinking it was a abandoned building because buddy shut off his water and electricity.

So as stupid and insane as the ordinance sounds, it is well within the realm of possibility someones house will be leveled because of this.

 

[herkulease]

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
Reminds me of a guy I once worked with in Alberta. He came from Saskatchewan and was away from home months at a time so he shut off his electricity and water to save a bit of money.

He goes back home on a 4 day break to find his home and everything he owned leveled to the ground and gone leaving him with only the two bags of stuff he had taken with him. Turns out a cop next door didn't like his porch and asked the city to condemn the building, which they did without notifying the owner, thinking it was a abandoned building because buddy shut off his water and electricity.

So as stupid and insane as the ordinance sounds, it is well within the realm of possibility someones house will be leveled because of this.

And what did he do? Sue?

 

[ZzZGuy]

Originally posted by: herkulease

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
Reminds me of a guy I once worked with in Alberta. He came from Saskatchewan and was away from home months at a time so he shut off his electricity and water to save a bit of money.

He goes back home on a 4 day break to find his home and everything he owned leveled to the ground and gone leaving him with only the two bags of stuff he had taken with him. Turns out a cop next door didn't like his porch and asked the city to condemn the building, which they did without notifying the owner, thinking it was a abandoned building because buddy shut off his water and electricity.

So as stupid and insane as the ordinance sounds, it is well within the realm of possibility someones house will be leveled because of this.

And what did he do? Sue?

Oh hell yea, no idea if he won though. The point though is strange things happen.

 

[Rastus]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
How about DMV tags. They are required to park in the public street. How about a law that says your vehicle has to be registered to park in your driveway?

It is pretty standard if you own a vehicle and park it in your driveway to be required to have current in-state registration. It keeps people from registering their vehicles in a cheaper state.

 

[GeezerMan]

If the Cap and Trade bill passes the Senate, it will make city ordinances look like small potatoes. Federal home inspections, fines for energy non-compliance, etc.

 

[Siddhartha]

These sort of things normally are not created in a vacuum. The Ordinance was probably put in effect in response to problems in that community.

 

[FallenHero]

Originally posted by: Siddhartha
These sort of things normally are not created in a vacuum. The Ordinance was probably put in effect in response to problems in that community.

Most of the problems are overblown, as least from my experience.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: waggy
yeah thats a little insane. but nothing you could do about it.

Looking over their PDF, they are saying shit like your windows have to be able to withstand pressure of someone trying to break in. (Basement windows I'm guessing). But what if they don't? You can't leave your house for more than 30 days or be required to get all new windows and pay alot of $$$?

I understand if someone is gone for more than 30 days the weeds will grow and needs ot be cut. Ok. No problem, get a company to come mow your yard. But they are basically trying to force people with this ordinance to have their house up to the cities standards. "If you don't like it, don't have your house unoccupied for 30 days."

It also says if the property is unoccupied for more than 30 days, the city may demand that you turn off your utilities, and you have to get approval from the city in order to get them turned back on (subject to their inspections and such)

I don't know if that's the definition of a free country.

Supreme Court decision a couple of years ago said that no one owns their land.
You are simply renting it from the Government subject to their rules and inspection anytime.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: brandonb
What if people are fixing up their houses and are not hiring an expensive construction crew and/or doing things themselves and the place is empty for a year?

If you're fixing up a house, how is it empty?

What if my friends grampa moves into an old folks home and they have to sell the house and in these economic times that takes awhile?

Selling a house hardly takes a year.

What if you are on a prolong vacation for 30 days? Or go visit a friend in another state and stay with them for awhile?

I think you're missing the point. This ordinance exists to remove abandoned eyesores. They are not going door-to-door in your neighborhood to destroy your homes.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
[

What if my friends grampa moves into an old folks home and they have to sell the house and in these economic times that takes awhile?

Selling a house hardly takes a year.

.

not true. i have seen plenty of houses sitting on the market a year now. 2 of them are empty.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: waggy
yeah thats a little insane. but nothing you could do about it.

Looking over their PDF, they are saying shit like your windows have to be able to withstand pressure of someone trying to break in. (Basement windows I'm guessing). But what if they don't? You can't leave your house for more than 30 days or be required to get all new windows and pay alot of $$$?

I understand if someone is gone for more than 30 days the weeds will grow and needs ot be cut. Ok. No problem, get a company to come mow your yard. But they are basically trying to force people with this ordinance to have their house up to the cities standards. "If you don't like it, don't have your house unoccupied for 30 days."

It also says if the property is unoccupied for more than 30 days, the city may demand that you turn off your utilities, and you have to get approval from the city in order to get them turned back on (subject to their inspections and such)

I don't know if that's the definition of a free country.

Supreme Court decision a couple of years ago said that no one owns their land.
You are simply renting it from the Government subject to their rules and inspection anytime.

WTF - when did you get back?

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: Rastus

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
How about DMV tags. They are required to park in the public street. How about a law that says your vehicle has to be registered to park in your driveway?

It is pretty standard if you own a vehicle and park it in your driveway to be required to have current in-state registration. It keeps people from registering their vehicles in a cheaper state.

That is not true in California. My truck sat in the driveway for years with no registration.
You cannot operate it or tow it on public roads if it is not registered. You can do whatever you want with it on private property.

 

[brandonb]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: brandonb
What if people are fixing up their houses and are not hiring an expensive construction crew and/or doing things themselves and the place is empty for a year?

If you're fixing up a house, how is it empty?

What if my friends grampa moves into an old folks home and they have to sell the house and in these economic times that takes awhile?

Selling a house hardly takes a year.

What if you are on a prolong vacation for 30 days? Or go visit a friend in another state and stay with them for awhile?

I think you're missing the point. This ordinance exists to remove abandoned eyesores. They are not going door-to-door in your neighborhood to destroy your homes.

Fixing up a home, like as if you were doing remodeling, new plumbing, wiring, sheetrock, etc. Most people don't live in their homes during that time. Likely it won't take a year but as a home owner (or renter as Dave says), you have the option to redoing it all yourself. Most permits are valid for a year, such as building permits. But if you do it just one section at a time (basement, or upstairs, etc) you could effectively make it quite drawn out over several years if its your choosing. Should people be subject to $500 in that case, maybe so, but as a homeowner, you'd think you should have that option to do whatever you want on your house, living there or not.

And BTW, they are going door to door in the neighbhorhood and are inspecting properties which look abandoned and are keeping notes. They have already identified over 150 of them according to their website. This is a community of 32,000 people, who knows how many houses are there, but its a small suburb (look at it on the Minneapolis MN google map). There are like 4-5 major roads going through the city, its quite tiny.