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Citizenship

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
44,241
3,913
136
Yes, Citizenship!

But we also believe in something called citizenship – a word at the very heart of our founding, at the very essence of our democracy; the idea that this country only works when we accept certain obligations to one another, and to future generations.

[...]

We don’t think government can solve all our problems. But we don’t think that government is the source of all our problems – any more than are welfare recipients, or corporations, or unions, or immigrants, or gays, or any other group we’re told to blame for our troubles.

Because we understand that this democracy is ours.

We, the People, recognize that we have responsibilities as well as rights; that our destinies are bound together; that a freedom which only asks what’s in it for me, a freedom without a commitment to others, a freedom without love or charity or duty or patriotism, is unworthy of our founding ideals, and those who died in their defense.
Give 'em hell, Barry!

For the lazy, the uninterested, and the brain dead, this was directly from his speech.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/text-of-obamas-convention-speech-2012-09-06?pagenumber=2
 
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Smoblikat

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2011
5,185
107
106
Is this supposed to mean anything without a source, or even a point? Move along until you sort this shit out.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,216
1,028
126
But we also believe in something called citizenship – a word at the very heart of our founding, at the very essence of our democracy; the idea that this country only works when we accept certain obligations to one another, and to future generations.
Agree completely but isn't he suppose to save the speech for the right folks? Such as the ones that killed scores in the big cities such as Chicago from gang fights? Such as folks from the mid size cities such as this = http://www.shreveporttimes.com/article/20120906/NEWS03/120906027/One-accused-connection-Sunday-home-invasion-killing?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE?


The biggest value Obama places in citizenship is dangling the possibility of it in front of illegal aliens in order to troll for Latino votes.
Watch out or you will be accuse of being so racist/xenophobic/<fill in the blank **ist> :D
 
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Ryan

Lifer
Oct 31, 2000
27,518
1
81
read the shit. then try to figure out if it meant something.


clif notes.

he said absolute nothing. but it sounds good.
Empty like every post you make? Except, instead of being good, your posts are a frothy mixture of shit and lies.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
44,241
3,913
136
Whats your point?

Normal people have to put sources in their posts.
My point is that the President was giving his acceptance speech, and I posted this right after he said what I posted, and I found it on-line, and that if you cared enough to post your little bitch complaint, why the fuck weren't you listening, Leroy?
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
44,241
3,913
136
But we also believe in something called citizenship – a word at the very heart of our founding, at the very essence of our democracy; the idea that this country only works when we accept certain obligations to one another, and to future generations.
Agree completely but isn't he suppose to save the speech for the right folks? Such as the ones that killed scores in the big cities such as Chicago from gang fights? Such as folks from the mid size cities such as this = http://www.shreveporttimes.com/article/20120906/NEWS03/120906027/One-accused-connection-Sunday-home-invasion-killing?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE?
I'm glad you agree with what you quoted so far, but please take heed of what he went on to say right after that, because it pertains directly to your attempted divisive exploit:

But we don’t think that government is the source of all our problems – any more than are welfare recipients, or corporations, or unions, or immigrants, or gays, or any other group we’re told to blame for our troubles.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,991
2
0
As for me I 110% support the Perknose position.

But wait, given the fact that P&N is mainly a US political forum, maybe we need to make three additional comments.

1. For democrats, what Obama said was a pure democratic home run speech.

2. For our mainly Republican leaning members on this forum, the Obama speech and message sways few Republicans.

3. As for the great American mean voters that can mainly be characterized as hotbeds of political apathy, it may end up being that group that decides how the 2012 POTUS election is won or lost.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Yes, Citizenship!
But we also believe in something called citizenship – a word at the very heart of our founding, at the very essence of our democracy; the idea that this country only works when we accept certain obligations to one another, and to future generations.

[...]

We don’t think government can solve all our problems. But we don’t think that government is the source of all our problems – any more than are welfare recipients, or corporations, or unions, or immigrants, or gays, or any other group we’re told to blame for our troubles.

Because we understand that this democracy is ours.

We, the People, recognize that we have responsibilities as well as rights; that our destinies are bound together; that a freedom which only asks what’s in it for me, a freedom without a commitment to others, a freedom without love or charity or duty or patriotism, is unworthy of our founding ideals, and those who died in their defense.

Give 'em hell, Barry!

For the lazy, the uninterested, and the brain dead, this was directly from his speech.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/text-of-obamas-convention-speech-2012-09-06?pagenumber=2
Yes, I thought that was an especially important point. It directly and rather pointedly rebuked the RNC mantra that life is all about greed and self interest. That's one of the changes in today's RNC I find most repugnant and most damaging to America. Republicans once recognized the importance of supporting one's community and building success while being a good citizen. Now they're all about enriching oneself today with no regard to how it affects others, no concern about ethics or morality.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,216
1,028
126
I'm glad you agree with what you quoted so far, but please take heed of what he went on to say right after that, because it pertains directly to your attempted divisive exploit:

or any other group we’re told to blame for our troubles
Not to blame any other group? Wow....Is this the same BO with "but..but..Bush"/Congress/Republicans/<fill in the blank excuses>?

Attempted divisive exploit? Nope, just stating the facts from news sources around the country.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
So my commitment to others is what exactly? I thought it was follow the law and pay your legally obligated taxes. I guess I missed something, because I don't understand what Obama is getting at here. The average joe that isn't scamming the system goes out every day, works, has taxes generally already taken out of their paycheck, follows laws without thinking, and goes home.

What are they supposed to be committed to doing more than that again? It sounds all Hope and Changey...what did he mean though?

Chuck
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
27,304
2,153
126
and citizenship also requires that we respect and follow the laws of this country. and yet there are many who cry for citizenship and rights but have decided that they should be exempt from following our laws. how is that compatible with the above?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,877
4,209
126
clifs: He said nothing to the brain dead.
There can be inspiration in words, but their value entirely depends on the merit of the actions which follow, or more colloquially, "I'm from Missouri, show me."

I shall reserve judgement and look for results, and on that I base the worth of fine speech.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
44,241
3,913
136
1. For democrats, what Obama said was a pure democratic home run speech.

2. For our mainly Republican leaning members on this forum, the Obama speech and message sways few Republicans.

3. As for the great American mean voters that can mainly be characterized as hotbeds of political apathy, it may end up being that group that decides how the 2012 POTUS election is won or lost.
Oh yeah, I am under zero illusions about any effect Obama's speech will have on the outcome of the election, but given that, the point he made that I quoted in my OP is a fundamental one, crucial to the only workable and sustainable idea of who we are as a nation . . . there is no Red America, there is no Blue America, there is only the United States of America! :thumbsup:

Daniel Webster's ghost is said to have always asked, "How stands the Union?"

It's a story they tell in the border country, where Massachusetts joins Vermont and New Hampshire.

Yes, Dan'l Webster's dead — or, at least, they buried him. But every time there's a thunderstorm around Marshfield, they say you can hear his rolling voice in the hollows of the sky. And they say that if you go to his grave and speak loud and clear, "Dan'l Webster — Dan'l Webster!" the ground'll begin to shiver and the trees begin to shake. And after a while you'll hear a deep voice saying, "Neighbor, how stands the Union?" Then you better answer the Union stands as she stood, rock-bottomed and copper-sheathed, one and indivisible, or he's liable to rear right out of the ground. At least, that's what I was told when I was a youngster.

Stephen Vincent Benét, in The Devil and Daniel Webster
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.
I grew up in a time and place where everyone I knew was quietly but not angrily patriotic, where your neighbor's patriotism was not questioned but assumed, and where Democrats and Republicans regularly managed to work together to go to the moon, to pass the Civil Rights acts, to fund the interstate highway system, and to keep our military strong enough to face down the Russians.

In grade school we read Edward Everett Hale's "The Man Without a Country" and I thought this was the saddest man I'd ever come across, to have lost his citizenship, to never again see or hear from or belong to America!

I grew up with JFK challenging all of us to "Ask not what your country can do for you; Ask what you can do for your country" absolutely NOT meaning that you should then use this mantra to demonize the poorer and less advantaged as having not done enough, and that THIS would then be YOU doing what you can for America.
 

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