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Cisco IMA CSU modules

spidey07

No Lifer
How well do they work? With 4 ptp T1s can you really get close to 6 Mbs tx/rx?

I'm using a 4 CSU module (NOT IMA) with for t1s and using simple per-session load balancing to another router. The load balancing is working great, but the problem is any single session will only get 1.5 thruput. Working as designed. I don't want to mess with per-packet sharing.

So it seems like an IMA solution would work well to improve single session thruput with IP and IPX? Routers are 7200 and 3600 so there is plenty of beef.
 
I am curious to know this also since we may try to consolidate some frame relay lines.

I am told there are some settings that need to be made at the ISP's end. You may want to ask if they have any oppinons or even have knowledgeable staff onhand to do this.

From what I know whenever dealing with ISP and having them do complicated setups on their end such as IMA and BGP it's finding the people with the knowledge to do the work or it won't work well.
 
Previous info from another thread...

Santa

We were looking to upgrade our entire Core down to the Access level

Core we wanted to be able to utilize (IMA? or whatever T1 bonding is called) Our sister company recently installed a 4006 with 3550 (I think) core switch.

I remember the conversations about the 4006 and was wondering what other alternatives do I have for a Core router that can do T1 bonding and host GigE over copper.

I was thinking of budgeting around 10-15k for the router and perhaps the same for the switch. Is this too low?


I will be hosting only 3-4 T1s currently with potential to grow to 5 T1s in 2-3 years.

We currently have 7507 and it is working wonderfully underutilized but its budget time and new toys for everyone



Garion

I think you're referring to IMUX - Inverse MUXing, where you combine two circuits instead of splitting one out. IMA is Inverse Muxing for ATM. For this purpose, a Cisco 2600 would probably be adequate, unless you want to run any fancy features like firewall feature set or VPN tunnels. If so, go for a 3620.

The magic of an IMUX network is in the CSU, not in the router. I work for a large organization which uses this all the time, and we typically use Larscom gear - You'd probably be a good fit for their Mega-T series CSU's. If you use point-to-point, make sure you've got the same gear on each end. If you use a carrier service (frame relay, etc.) make sure you have gear they support. Just make sure you buy the right interface for your CSU as you have with your router - IE, don't get a HSSI CSU and a V.35 router port. Causes problems. One catch - This kind of gear is NOT cheap - You can get a single-line CSU for under $1K - These go for about $7K, for one that'll do just two T1's. Waaay more than the 2600-series router you need.

For the switches, given your number of users, I'd put in a core, layer 3 capable gigabit switch (like the Cisco 3550-12G) and then use 48-port switches hung off of it, like the 3550-48. Great price point, great features, etc. Scales across the building much more easily than a single, centralized switch, too. For one gig switch and 4 45-ports, you're probably looking at somewhere in the $20K range, plus the cost of fiber. Swith infrastructures are pretty easy nowadays..

OK, these are the fun kinds of questions - Keep 'em up guys!



I guess the question now is what is the difference pro and cons to using IMUX vs IMA. Granted two differnt types of circuit technology Frame Relay vs ATM? Is IMUX the same thing as MLPPP?
Is IMA availble for multiple lines from differnt vendors? Is IMUX? What about MLPPP?
 
Lessee if I can explain this.. There's a lot of ways to bond together a series of circuits to make a larger pipe. You mention a few, so let me hit them..

Inverse MUX (multiplex) is when you take a special CSU/DSU that can combine the data from multiple circuits (usually T1's) and deliver them to the router as a single, large pipe. This has many advantages - The router config is very simple, as it just thinks it's got a 3Mb/s device and doesn't know that the CSU is doing inverse muxing to combine two T1's. This is really OSI Layer 1 stuff. Because it's layer 1, it is transparent to the other layers. This means that you can use Inverse Muxes for connections to frame providers, point-to-point circuits, etc. If it'll run across a T1, you can run it across an IMUXED T1. The only catch is, of course, that the other end has to have the same (or compatible gear) to IMUX their end, too. The catch with this is, of course, that the router doesn't ever see anything beyond the CSU, so it doesn't have visibility into circuit status, etc. You could have 1 T1 down and it wouldn't know, other than reduced throughput.

IMA - Inverse Muxing for ATM is somewherere between layer 1 and layer 2. It's a standard way to split up a stream of ATM cells for distribution across several circuits, then recombining them at the other end. It's an ATM-only protocol. Cells are usually load balanced using a round-robin technique. This works OK for ATM, since ALL the cells ar e 53 bytes, but not well for other protocols, which have varying size frames. I wouldn't worry too much about IMA, as you need to have a pretty serious network to need it.

Multi-Link PPP (MLPPP) is another layer 2 protocol that takes two standard PPP circuits and "bonds" them together. It's like IMA for the masses, in a way, and is most typically used for ISDN, bonding the 2
"B"earer channels. Some use it for multi-modem use, too. PPP and MLPPP is used for point-to-point circuits only and won't support other WAN protocols like Frame Relay, ATM, etc. The important thing to understand is that MLPPP is a router-to-router protocol, combining traffic across two "normal" circuits, i.e., two T1's with separate normal CSU/DSU's.

OK, enough of the lesson.. As I mentioned previously, we use a lot of inverse muxes in my organization. They work pretty well, but are not perfect. You get a lot of redundancy, since about 50% of your outages are someone at the CO doing something stupid - Looping a circuit, unwrapping a wire, etc. and if you have multiple circuits muxed together, you can survive. Unfortunately, there is a "retraining" period, when a circuit goes down and comes back up. It generally doesn't involve the loss of connectivity, but if there's too much flapping of the circuit, it can take the whole thing down and require a reset.

There's always a price-point tradeoff for bundled T1's vs. a fractional DS3. Our main office happens to be 2 blocks away from the CO in downtown Seattle, so DS3's are pretty cheap for us, since they are charged by the FOOT for distance. The break even point is usually somewhere around 4-6T1's, depending on your LEC and local charges.

I'm a fan of bundling no more than 4 T1's. If you need more bandwidth than that, you probably need a fractional DS3, and should just bite the bullet. I've always seen a growth curve, where when you need 6Mb/s, you will usually push that to 8, then 10, the 12 over the next year or so. Better to be positioned for growth than be behind the 8 ball.

- G

 
Thank you for the very detailed explanation. These technologies are what I got into the WAN world to learn about and implement! Very fun and exciting when it works 🙂

A few questions to figure out whats best in my situation.. Would IMA be more used for branch-HQ links or is it something worth wild to be placed at the Internet link?
From what you mentioned and what I know about IMA, it is based on ATM circuit so that means you would have to have multiple ATM lines coming into the router's IMA card to Inverse Mux them together as one.

Now I have heard of ATM being good and speedy service but Inverse Muxing ATM vs MLPPP p2p lines in terms of cost per Mb of bandwidth does it stack up?

I take it when you do either you have to have your provider involved and they must either Inverse Mux the ATM lines or run MLPPP at their end also.

Is it possible to run BGP over IMA or MLPPP? We currently have 1 T1 for internet access and the previous admin decided to do frame relay it. I perfer to use p2p T1 for internet as it has better throughput and less overhead. Since I will eventually be wanting to switch lines chosing what I want to do with them obviously plays a big role on chosing p2p or ATM.

Now your explanation of the of the Inverse Muxing and the need for special CSU, I take it these are expensive but would it also mean that the ISP will need to support this type of Muxing? How does DLCI numbers work then if the router knows the circuits as one circuit as apposed to two? We currently have two circuits and each has a differnt DLCI number. If I am correct in assuming the ISP has to have the same type of CSU on their end that will Mux the two or more lines together would they assign 1 DLCI to virtual circuit?

What about if you chose two differnt ISP vendors for Internet link. Can you do MLPPP or can MLPPP only be accomplished on lines from the same vendor?
One design I heard about was buying 4 T1 2 from one vendor and 2 from another. Using MLPPP for both vendor and running BGP over both virtual bonded links. Is this totally impossible or highly improbable?

Keep it coming.. the brain sponge is out of control!
 
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