CIA says ISIS @ 30k fighters. Who is suppling them with $ and arms?

[MongGrel]

There is a really good documentary coming out soon of some of the best Presidents to ever hold office who were accused of being Socialist, Communist, and class traitoes in their day when they held office.

And probably did more for the USA than about any others from the founders.

Ken Burns' 'The Roosevelts' Explores An American Family's Demons



http://www.npr.org/2014/09/10/347416175/ken-burns-the-roosevelts-explores-an-american-familys-demons

 

[Victorian Gray]

www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/aug/06/james-woods/actor-james-woods-obama-ordered-release-islamic-st/

Interesting, thanks for the info.

 

[JEDIYoda]

and who is supplying ISIS with $ for food?
a 30k army isn't cheap to feed

The Saudis do everything under the table, that`s your answer!

 

[CLite]

when the US help arm the Syria rebels, did we negligently hand out weapons to anyone who said they're a freedom fighter?

and who is supplying ISIS with $ for food?
a 30k army isn't cheap to feed

No we did not, we never armed ISIS.

ISIS has been around for about a decade, it was primarily focused on resistance fighting in Iraq (i.e. attacking US troops). It was initially armed by old Iraqi army equipment. It was funded by kidnapping ransoms and of course good 'ole terrorist funding from KSA.

It has now increased it's arms reserves from captured USA military equipment from the embattled FSA and also our friends in the Iraqi military who threw down arms and ran away.

They were not born as Syrian resistance fighters nor were armed by the USA.

 

[CLite]

McCain never met with Al-baghdadi you dopey idiots. That person is just a vague look a like and a commander in FSA.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/12/w...shake-falsehoods-about-ties-to-isis.html?_r=0

He met people in the FSA who were fighting ISIS at the time. ISIS has always been a damn terrorist organization killing USA troops in Iraq and have always been hunted by us. They were almost destroyed by us until our full withdrawal from Iraq due to the Iraqi government not wanting us to stay.

This whole mess has a truckload of lies and innuendos flying around.

 

[manimal]

War is a Racket
I'm okay with Smedley. I'm okay with Eisenhower. As a former soldier, I'd be okay with either one's leadership.

Obama and his war? Not so much. That is, unless we were talking leadership to the golf course.

Uno

You completely invalidate your argument throwing in bs about golfing. Every president has vacationed so stfu with the brietbart talking points.

We get it you were a dog handler once.

 

[unokitty]

You completely invalidate your argument throwing in bs about golfing. Every president has vacationed so stfu with the brietbart talking points.

We get it you were a dog handler once.

LOL

Truth hurts. Don't it?

Obama ordered airstrikes and committed advisers. Minutes later, he took off for the golf course. Fact is that that doesn't demonstrate commitment or leadership.

Fact is even the Atlantic is asking "Has any past president announced military action with such ambivalence and unease?"

Insulting me doesn't change the facts.

Uno

 

[zephyrprime]

The same people as always, the Saudis.

Yep. Although we were the first to start supporting isis back when we were using them as puppets to fight in syria, it is now the Saudis who are supporting them. They have grown far larger than they were when the use was supporting them. Now they have their own cash and support base.

Will the US never learn that arming rebels is never a good idea in the middle east? Those enemies of your enemy will become your own enemy soon enough.

 

[rudder]

www.politifact.com/punditfact/state...james-woods-obama-ordered-release-islamic-st/

Good info, my bad. I see that the 2009 date came from an interview with a Col who ran camp Bucca.... and the details of the interview were never verified so there is a lot of wrong info floating around.

 

[werepossum]

I think this situation would be problematic enough were it just run with funds from Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, etc.

ISIL's victory in running off the Iraqis with the help of corrupt generals was like dumping a 55gal drum of kerosene on the fire. Seriously, sometimes I can't believe how a handful of corrupt and/or compromised men have so seriously fucked the region, maybe the world. It's quite a foothold they have. All the money they took along with the huge influx of American equipment, transportation and weapon systems is an aggressive malignant growth - needs to be removed asap! I know we've pounded them hard for a bit, and can only hope the details revolve around highly armored and dangerous targets being obliterated with overwhelming firepower. The longer they get to hang onto our stuff, the better they're going to be at using it when they're trying to kill people. I'll bet Saudis with American weapon system know-how have been there for awhile now, they're sending more than ammo and TOWs for sure.


On the flip side, you know who's having a good time right now? The pesh! Those guys have being getting a stream of real goodies from the US, Germany and Italy lately. After being oppressed and persecuted for so long, all of a sudden the big guys are just throwing awesome shit at them to use and secure their homeland. How good do you think that feels? I'll take a single peshmerga outfitted for work over a Toyota filled with Iraqi teens who have just been given a car, money, cel phones and guns. There are some pretty determined Shia bolstering the Iraqi forces now too. If it comes down to it they're be back to explosive backpacks like when Saddam invaded Iran. Sunni aren't the only ones willing to blow themselves up. Kerbala, and all that.

I'm curious to see how much leash Obama gives the drones and new stealthy things as well. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of child butchering slavers either. As bad as it sounds I think it might be time to remind the world why we're a force to be reckoned with. Let's go make two bit sadist dictators hide in armored subterranean complexes again, that was fun.

Good points, although ISIS defeated the peshmerga last two times around. Hopefully we can change that. The other thing we've got going our way is the effect of ISIS' mass executions of surrendered soldiers. If you want to see how hard a man can fight, convince him that surrender equals death.

War is a Racket
I'm okay with Smedley. I'm okay with Eisenhower. As a former soldier, I'd be okay with either one's leadership.

Obama and his war? Not so much. That is, unless we were talking leadership to the golf course.

Uno

How much do we really want Obama doing though? He has zero military experience, so I'm thinking the fewer decisions he makes, the better. Same with Bush; he has a healthy affection for the military, but a couple years being a Congressman's no-count son whom his instructors' desperately hope doesn't kill himself before making his time isn't exactly general officer training. Same with John Kerry; a few months as a Lieutenant isn't exactly qualification to make military decisions. Obama's near-total ignorance might even work to our advantage - if he's on the golf course, he's not screwing up military decisions.

Yep. Although we were the first to start supporting isis back when we were using them as puppets to fight in syria, it is now the Saudis who are supporting them. They have grown far larger than they were when the use was supporting them. Now they have their own cash and support base.

Will the US never learn that arming rebels is never a good idea in the middle east? Those enemies of your enemy will become your own enemy soon enough.

I believe CLite is correct that we never armed ISIS, just some supposedly moderate Islamic groups who later became part of ISIS. And yes, that never seems to work out for us.

 

[kage69]

Good points, although ISIS defeated the peshmerga last two times around. Hopefully we can change that. The other thing we've got going our way is the effect of ISIS' mass executions of surrendered soldiers. If you want to see how hard a man can fight, convince him that surrender equals death.

Absolutely.

I'm not going to give the pesh too much crap yet, if they do that when they have all the ammo they need then I'll start to doubt.

 

[werepossum]

Absolutely.

I'm not going to give the pesh too much crap yet, if they do that when they have all the ammo they need then I'll start to doubt.

I'm not big on seeing us use the peshmerga as our cat's paw to reduce ISIS, but I would like to see us arm and train them as they seem to be the most reasonable people in the area and the least likely to turn on us. If they decide to push ISIS out of Iraq, so much the better. If not, then we've at least thrown up a bulkhead against further expansion, which is not an insignificant thing.

 

[blankslate]

War is a Racket
I'm okay with Smedley. I'm okay with Eisenhower. As a former soldier, I'd be okay with either one's leadership.

Obama and his war? Not so much. That is, unless we were talking leadership to the golf course.

Uno

Leaving aside the fact that the way the Iraq war was instigated and then prosecuted before his inauguration practically forced President Obama to deal with it the situation in certain ways.

I do agree with you about Eisenhower. One wonders what might have happened if Collin Powell ran as a candidate for the 2000 presidential election. It's possible that we'd be in a worse place today as far as the foreign policy environment but I think it's far more likely we'd have more options and wouldn't be faced with the IS situation.


....

 

[norseamd]

Nice to know some of you support the president who murdered the UN Secretary General and the Congolese Prime Minister.

 

[werepossum]

Leaving aside the fact that the way the Iraq war was instigated and then prosecuted before his inauguration practically forced President Obama to deal with it the situation in certain ways.

I do agree with you about Eisenhower. One wonders what might have happened if Collin Powell ran as a candidate for the 2000 presidential election. It's possible that we'd be in a worse place today as far as the foreign policy environment but I think it's far more likely we'd have more options and wouldn't be faced with the IS situation.


....

Agreed. Obama clearly screwed up in ignoring ISIS for so long, but that's hindsight. I don't think we can assume that the Iraqi leadership would have welcomed any American involvement prior to ISIS beginning to take Iraqi cities and oil wells. If not, then clearly Obama's attention to ISIS in Iraq would have been fruitless. As far as Syria, Obama screwed that pooch long ago. First he was standing with Asad, calling him a reformer. Then he tried to get Congressional permission to kill Asad. At this point neither side trusts us - which might even be the best thing for us, as seems like every time we aid one particular Middle East faction it comes around to bite us in the ass.

Regarding Powell, I'm certainly no Powell fan but I think it vanishingly unlikely he would have invaded Iraq. Powell was single-handedly responsible for stopping the slaughter when the Iraqis were collapsing. It was due to Powell's convincing Bush I to unilaterally establish a ceasefire that the Republican Guard was able to withdraw as largely intact units, which is probably what kept Saddam in power. (I say probably because he also had a hell of a lot of paramilitary secret police and largely Sunni regular troops who had their own motivation to fear Shii or Kurdish revolts.) A man unwilling to kill Iraqis with such justification surely isn't going to reinvade based on Saddam's ties to terrorism (certainly no worse than most Middle Eastern leaders and significantly less than most) or WMDs. That might have been huge. I'm guessing Afghanistan influenced the Middle East far less than did Iraq. If so, no democratic Iraq means no Arab Spring, Mubarak and Saddam and Gaddafi remain in power, and Asad remains firmly in control of Syria and Lebanon. The Muslim Brotherhood remains a quasi-terrorist organization without much influence, and the components of ISIS remain fractured and focussed on a dozen different regimes.

Too soon to know if that would be better, but it certainly sounds better.

 

[kage69]

You completely invalidate your argument throwing in bs about golfing. Every president has vacationed so stfu with the brietbart talking points.

We get it you were a dog handler once.

I'd say republicans kissed their ability to poke fun at Obama over golf when they decided they support John Boehner, the true leader of the links. Even funnier, one of them has a record to point at for getting shit done, while the other...uh, yeah, not so much. Still an inspiration for orange Americans though, I'm sure.

Eisenhower had it right though. That quote in particular has made me always consider him an American Sun Tzu.

 

[werepossum]

Nice to know some of you support the president who murdered the UN Secretary General and the Congolese Prime Minister.

Nice to know Minnesota has its share of "Blame America, first, last and always" conspiracy nuts.

 

[norseamd]

Eisenhower had it right though. That quote in particular has made me always consider him an American Sun Tzu.

He is nowhere near consideration as Sun Tzu. He probably got into deep political infighting with the defense companies and so decided to try to shit on them on the way out of his job.

 

[norseamd]

Nice to know Minnesota has its share of "Blame America, first, last and always" conspiracy nuts.

Or you know you could possibly in a while use Wikipedia. Oh wait that does not support someone exploiting something in the world for cash?

 

[werepossum]

Or you know you could possibly in a while use Wikipedia. Oh wait that does not support someone exploiting something in the world for cash?

lol Wikipedia - where nuts can write articles that other nuts can quote as evidence.

 

[Fern]

Agreed. Obama clearly screwed up in ignoring ISIS for so long, but that's hindsight. I don't think we can assume that the Iraqi leadership would have welcomed any American involvement prior to ISIS beginning to take Iraqi cities and oil wells. If not, then clearly Obama's attention to ISIS in Iraq would have been fruitless.
-snip-

Reports that Iraq/Maliki asked us for help with ISIS for over a year have been reported for a while.

Here's an example: http://www.aei-ideas.org/2014/07/ob...e-august-2013-for-drone-strikes-against-isis/

Fern

 

[Albatross]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/12/w...shake-falsehoods-about-ties-to-isis.html?_r=0

 

[CLite]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/12/w...shake-falsehoods-about-ties-to-isis.html?_r=0

yeah... post #30.

 

[Nebor]

Nice to know some of you support the president who murdered the UN Secretary General and the Congolese Prime Minister.

I wish our current president would take a page from his book. The current UN Secretary General and Congolese Prime Minister are some of the greatest threats to US national security in the world. The fact that they've been allowed to continue threatening US citizens at home and abroad is a travesty, but the fact that our elected leaders haven't acted against these people, our long-standing enemies, is shameful.

 

[norseamd]

This was conducted by the Belgian King and government, Eisenhower and the CIA, and MI5.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dag_Hammarskjöld

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrice_Lumumba

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961_Ndola_United_Nations_DC-6_Crash