CIA interrogations 'too brutal'

[Czar]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3709793.stm

US officials have said the CIA's methods of interrogating suspected al-Qaeda leaders are too brutal, the New York Times reports.
Unnamed counter-terrorism officials told the paper that CIA methods were so severe, the FBI had directed its agents to stay out of many of the interviews.

The techniques are said to have been authorised by the Bush administration after the 9/11 attacks on the US.

None of the detainees, held in secret locations, are thought to be in Iraq.

The paper cites one case of a detainee who was subjected to a technique known as water boarding, in which a prisoner is strapped down, forcibly pushed under water and made to believe that he might drown.

Some have been hooded, soaked with water, roughed up and deprived of food, light and medication.

At least one CIA employee was disciplined for threatening a detainee with a gun during an interrogation.

Secret rules

The paper says FBI officials have advised their director, Robert Mueller, that the techniques would be prohibited in criminal cases.

Defenders of the secret interrogation rules say the methods stop short of torture and serious injury.

Current CIA officers are said to be worried that public outrage at the treatment of detainees in Iraq might lead to a closer examination of their treatment of al-Qaeda prisoners.

"Some people involved in this have been concerned for quite a while that eventually there would be a new president, or the mood in the country would change, and they would be held accountable," one was quoted as saying.

"Now that's happening faster than anybody expected."

The whereabouts of high-level al-Qaeda detainees is a closely guarded secret, and human rights groups have been denied access to the prisoners.

Officials say some have been send abroad.

"There was a debate after 9/11 about how to make people disappear," a former intelligence official told the paper.

The government was advised that if the CIA was considering procedures which violated the Geneva Convention or US laws prohibiting torture and degrading treatment, it would not be held responsible if it could be argued that the detainees were in the custody of another country.

 

[Red Dawn]

Nothing is too Brutal when it comes to the leaders of Al Qaeda. The Geneva Convention was meant for Human Beings, not animals and that is all those cscksuckers are.

 

[arsbanned]

The paper cites one case of a detainee who was subjected to a technique known as water boarding, in which a prisoner is strapped down, forcibly pushed under water and made to believe that he might drown.

And to think I was subjected to illegal interrogation right here in the U.S.
THey train on this very thing at SERE school.
Frankly, I don't have a problem with them using it against our enemies. If I can handle it, they should have to.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Nothing is too Brutal when it comes to the leaders of Al Qaeda. The Geneva Convention was meant for Human Beings, not animals and that is all those cscksuckers are.

No.

When we decide we can do whatever they would, they have won. We have no reason to act as animals except that we want to. At that point the reason for the US to exist ceases to be. I will not become what I detest.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Nothing is too Brutal when it comes to the leaders of Al Qaeda. The Geneva Convention was meant for Human Beings, not animals and that is all those cscksuckers are.

Um red I tell you who shot Kennedy if you torture me long enough. I would hardly call a coerced confession the truth.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Nothing is too Brutal when it comes to the leaders of Al Qaeda. The Geneva Convention was meant for Human Beings, not animals and that is all those cscksuckers are.

:beer:

They are far different from the insurgents and the 70-90% wrongly arrested in Iraq and being abused in the prisons there.

The filth at Gitmo don't deserve one shred of a human right.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Nothing is too Brutal when it comes to the leaders of Al Qaeda. The Geneva Convention was meant for Human Beings, not animals and that is all those cscksuckers are.

:beer:

They are far different from the insurgents and the 70-90% wrongly arrested in Iraq and being abused in the prisons there.

The filth at Gitmo don't deserve one shred of a human right.

Why? how do you know there guilty of anything?

Please Don't tell me it's because of the same governemnt that told you about WMD's in Iraq and "small number of prison abuses" told you so.

 

[Schadenfroh]

when you stop obeying the geneva convention, you have become closer to their level

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Nothing is too Brutal when it comes to the leaders of Al Qaeda. The Geneva Convention was meant for Human Beings, not animals and that is all those cscksuckers are.

:beer:

They are far different from the insurgents and the 70-90% wrongly arrested in Iraq and being abused in the prisons there.

The filth at Gitmo don't deserve one shred of a human right.

Why? how do you know there guilty of anything?

Please Don't tell me it's because of the same governemnt that told you about WMD's in Iraq and "small number of prison abuses" told you so.

Well, who are these people?

They are Al Qaeda and Taliban captured, typically, in Afghanistan during the war on terror campaign. They are worse than filth.

 

[Zebo]

Well, who are these people?
-----------
Who the hell knows? Lets get a judge in there, charge them, try them something. But right now for the past three years we know nothig about them. How do we know incompitance of the 70-90% mistaken arrest record we have in Iraq does'nt hold for afghanistan?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Nothing is too Brutal when it comes to the leaders of Al Qaeda. The Geneva Convention was meant for Human Beings, not animals and that is all those cscksuckers are.

Um red I tell you who shot Kennedy if you torture me long enough. I would hardly call a coerced confession the truth.

If we get info out of them then it would be an added benefit. When we are done torturing them we should feed them to the pigs. Of course no pictures allowed!

Mind you I am talking about Bin Laden, Zakarwi (sp) and those subhuman wankers who are the leadership of Al Qeada

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Nothing is too Brutal when it comes to the leaders of Al Qaeda. The Geneva Convention was meant for Human Beings, not animals and that is all those cscksuckers are.

Um red I tell you who shot Kennedy if you torture me long enough. I would hardly call a coerced confession the truth.

If we get info out of them then it would be an added benefit. When we are done torturing them we should feed them to the pigs. Of course no pictures allowed!

Mind you I am talking about Bin Laden, Zakarwi (sp) and those subhuman wankers who are the leadership of Al Qeada

Yes.. that is one group of people I can totally agree on throwing all rules out the window.

I would soak them in pools of HOG PISS and do every single horrible rotten thing to them that could ever be imagined.

I don't care if they ever told me anything ... they would suffer.. I have more anger towards them than anyone ever in my entire life.

 

[Tab]

What kind of rock have you people been living under? We've been sending indiviuals to other contries for interrogation purposes for years! This is nothing new, nor do I could about Mr.Terrorist being tortured.

 

[Genx87]

Who the hell knows? Lets get a judge in there, charge them, try them something. But right now for the past three years we know nothig about them. How do we know incompitance of the 70-90% mistaken arrest record we have in Iraq does'nt hold for afghanistan?

Did we ever get a name on the super secret coalition official who said this?
If not then I think spreading hearsay as truth is nothing more than fud.

Anybody can say anything if all they have to say is I heard it from this guy. But that hardly qualifies it as being the truth.

 

[chess9]

Ethically, morally, and possibly legally, torturing anyone cannot be justified.

However, in a very, very small number of cases going almost too far in an interrogation might be justified. The interrogator should have strong reason to believe that the prisoner has extremely valuable information that cannot be easily obtained otherwise. I doubt many of the interrogations that have taken place fall into such a category.

As to OBL and his ilk, I'd say shoot to kill them on sight.

If one of them is captured, we'd be much better off showing how good we can be in treating our enemies. The political benefits of good treatment are palpable, and the big downside to mistreatment is the mistreatment of our soldiers when they are captured. We should assume this equation works as stated and not assume that they are going to mistreat our soldiers so we should do likewise.

Just my .0002 shekels worth.

-Robert

 

[imported_Aelius]

Syria seems to be quite happy to do the torture for us. Us being the US and even little wee Canada.

Seems CSIS (Canadian version of the CIA) and the RCMP (whom are in bed with CSIS) were more than happy to provide information on a couple of Canadians to the US whom promptly deported them to Syria where they were tortured for quite some time to get confessions out of them, which are probably sitting in a drawer in some CSIS and CIA office somewhere for later use, just in case.

The fact that some of these guys, that were sent to Syria, may very well be innocent just paints the whole alphabet soup of spookdom in both the US and elsewhere as incompetent.

Not just those agencies that took part in deporting these people but also the others that knew about it and stood by and did nothing. It puts them all in the same boat.

As far as people not giving their names to provide information leaks to us. Keep in mind that people have been suicided or had an accident for less. They aren't stupid enough to put a bullseye on their own back.

People need to drop their romantic vision of security agencies. Sure there are lots of people in these agencies that are very nice people like you and me and whom have nothing but the best of intentions. That's partly why they are there. However most people in these agencies don't dictate policy and don't give orders.

Nuff said.

Edit: fixed some spelling

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: conjur

The filth at Gitmo don't deserve one shred of a human right.

A lot (probably the majority) of the detainees at Gitmo are garden-variety Taliban soldiers - a number of them have already been released, after prolonged detainment, once it was clear they knew nothing about terrorist ops.

The Taliban was a uniquely brutal regime (and one that would never have arisen to power but for extensive US financial and military support to the mujahadeen), but I don't agree that every Taliban solder is filth, or that they have surrendered their basic civil rights by fighting for their country. Afghanistan has been so war-torn, for so long, that a large percentage of the adult men there will wield a Kalashnikov for whomever is the flavor of the week and offering a paycheck - I don't think this makes them evil.

I put the actual al Queda operatives in a different category, but I still don't agree our government should be in the business of torture, absent a genuine "ticking bomb" scenario. As the Israelis have learned, once you allow any torture, it turns into a slippery slope, and it's tough to know when it is and isn't justified. I am all for applying psychological pressure, but not physical torture. (I am not, BTW, presuming that such torture took place at Gitmo or elsewhere - the jury is still out on that.)

 

[Passions]

Too Brutal?? mwahahahhahahaha, what do you expect? Feed them Filet Minon and give them a massage?

Beat em down, deprive them of sleep, skin them alive, poke out their eyeballs, anything is fair when obtaining information from mutants.

 

[Crimson]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Nothing is too Brutal when it comes to the leaders of Al Qaeda. The Geneva Convention was meant for Human Beings, not animals and that is all those cscksuckers are.

First intelligent thing I have seen come out of your piehole in some time...

I think thats a compliment.. I'm not sure though.

 

[katka]

I though that the CIA orchestrated secret plans and pretended that someone else was responsible. I didn't think that they actually got their hands dirty. Seals, Green Berets, and Special Forces actually carry out secret murders.

 

[sandorski]

Another article on the situation.

"Moral Authority" does not come from words, it comes from Actions.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Nothing is too Brutal when it comes to the leaders of Al Qaeda. The Geneva Convention was meant for Human Beings, not animals and that is all those cscksuckers are.

Agreed. If anything, our interrogation techniques are not brutal enough.

 

[Zephyr106]

Originally posted by: Passions
Too Brutal?? mwahahahhahahaha, what do you expect? Feed them Filet Minon and give them a massage?

Beat em down, deprive them of sleep, skin them alive, poke out their eyeballs, anything is fair when obtaining information from mutants.

Ooohhh should we make lamp shades out of the skin of the mutants? By mutants I mean all Muslim untermenschen.

Zephyr

 

[Zephyr106]

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Nothing is too Brutal when it comes to the leaders of Al Qaeda. The Geneva Convention was meant for Human Beings, not animals and that is all those cscksuckers are.

First intelligent thing I have seen come out of your piehole in some time...

I think thats a compliment.. I'm not sure though.

You're capacity for judging intelligence is very questionable.

Zephyr