CIA 'helped Saddam Hussein carry out chemical weapons attack on Iran' in 1988 Read m

lilrayray69

Senior member
Apr 4, 2013
501
1
76
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-weapons-attack-Iran-1988-Ronald-Reagan.html

Apparently previously classified documents have surfaced indicating that the CIA and Reagan administration helped Iraq under Saddam Hussein by giving them intelligence of Irans military movements, knowing fully well they would use chemical weapons against them.

I still don't really get why they sold weapons to Iran in the Contra affair, then turned around and supported Saddam in the Iran-Iraq war, but whatever.

Doesn't bode well for the rhetoric going on about Syria right now
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
176
106
Sweet. Now we should arm Pakistan so they will attack Syria for us, then invade Pakistan years later because they're "evil."
 

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
76
Nice that we then used this against Iraq before democracyzing their ass.

When you're good you're good.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-weapons-attack-Iran-1988-Ronald-Reagan.html

Apparently previously classified documents have surfaced indicating that the CIA and Reagan administration helped Iraq under Saddam Hussein by giving them intelligence of Irans military movements, knowing fully well they would use chemical weapons against them.

I still don't really get why they sold weapons to Iran in the Contra affair, then turned around and supported Saddam in the Iran-Iraq war, but whatever.

Doesn't bode well for the rhetoric going on about Syria right now
To even hint at such a thing is morally obscene and you need to check your moral compass!
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-weapons-attack-Iran-1988-Ronald-Reagan.html

Apparently previously classified documents have surfaced indicating that the CIA and Reagan administration helped Iraq under Saddam Hussein by giving them intelligence of Irans military movements, knowing fully well they would use chemical weapons against them.

I still don't really get why they sold weapons to Iran in the Contra affair, then turned around and supported Saddam in the Iran-Iraq war, but whatever.

Doesn't bode well for the rhetoric going on about Syria right now
Iran was our chief enemy at the time so we gave Iraq intel. We did not however want Iraq to outright win and become twice as powerful, so we also helped Iran. In a fight between a rat and a snake, you don't pick sides, you just help them damage each other so that you get a three-legged rat and a crippled snake rather than a well-fed rat or snake looking for its next meal.

Downside of that strategy is that both sides hate you.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Why do they hate US(us - me..you...and others) if we are so good?

Do people wonder about?
Besides that we are free and aren't Islamic, they hate us because we helped their enemy and because they were weak enough to need our help. Nothing magical about that, it's just human nature, and helping both sides means getting hate from both for both reasons.

And helping empower both sides in a war isn't particularly good as regards good and evil, although it was perceived as good for us. Our purpose was to weaken both countries; Iraqis and Iranians both know this, and from their standpoint I doubt many consider it good. From an objective standpoint is isn't very good either.
 

Gintaras

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2000
1,892
1
71
Besides that we are free and aren't Islamic, they hate us because we helped their enemy and because they were weak enough to need our help. Nothing magical about that, it's just human nature, and helping both sides means getting hate from both for both reasons.

And helping empower both sides in a war isn't particularly good as regards good and evil, although it was perceived as good for us. Our purpose was to weaken both countries; Iraqis and Iranians both know this, and from their standpoint I doubt many consider it good. From an objective standpoint is isn't very good either.

Obla Di, Obla Da...werepossum - certainly "does know" what he's talking about....Just wonder..how many Mensa Society membership cards he has in valet....
 

schneiderguy

Lifer
Jun 26, 2006
10,801
91
91
we are free

hotwomanisnotamused.gif
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
Besides that we are free and aren't Islamic, they hate us because we helped their enemy and because they were weak enough to need our help. Nothing magical about that, it's just human nature, and helping both sides means getting hate from both for both reasons.

And helping empower both sides in a war isn't particularly good as regards good and evil, although it was perceived as good for us. Our purpose was to weaken both countries; Iraqis and Iranians both know this, and from their standpoint I doubt many consider it good. From an objective standpoint is isn't very good either.

So let's say there was a nation a hundred times more powerful than us. Let's say it's mostly Islamic. There is another nation much like them, not as strong but much more that us. For Business purposes the second asks the first to overthrow our government and install a puppet dictator. Do you find this a problem because they aren't Christian and are free?
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
198
106
Oh-No! Not St. Reagan, the greatest man who ever lived!

Also the Reagan administration help Saddam obtain those same weapons.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-153210/Rumsfeld-helped-Iraq-chemical-weapons.html

Kinda puts Ronnie into a whole new catagory.

Everyone knows Ronnie was a piece of crap. He gave a good speech, but pitted millions of people against each other in the middle east. Kinda like what obama is doing.

The ultra-conservatives just need someone to idolize.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,737
33,328
136
I thought Iraq didn't have any WMD? Are we now saying Bush didn't lie?

Kurds were gassed in 1988. Those kind of weapons have a 5 year shelf life. Basically we started the war using claims on shit that happened 15 years prior.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
Kurds were gassed in 1988. Those kind of weapons have a 5 year shelf life. Basically we started the war using claims on shit that happened 15 years prior.

Not only that but The Scary Things were long under control of the West. I despise lying leaders.
 

gevorg

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2004
5,070
1
0
Countries act only in their geopolitical interests. This is how it was for the whole human history. USA is not the first and not the last superpower to do this. Religion, vengeance, or freedom are just propaganda to feed the general population of the invader.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,672
136
I swear this is old news or at least part of it I remember hearing that we gave Iraq intelligence and sold Iran weapons during the war like eons ago.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
So let's say there was a nation a hundred times more powerful than us. Let's say it's mostly Islamic. There is another nation much like them, not as strong but much more that us. For Business purposes the second asks the first to overthrow our government and install a puppet dictator. Do you find this a problem because they aren't Christian and are free?
I find it a problem regardless of religion and/or freedom. It's not quite the same as the US never asked either state to destroy and/or conquer the other, but certainly both Iraqis and Iranians resent our helping the other side and resent needing us to help them in turn.

Kurds were gassed in 1988. Those kind of weapons have a 5 year shelf life. Basically we started the war using claims on shit that happened 15 years prior.
Negative. Mixed sarin gas has a very short shelf life, months at best, because it is highly corrosive and highly susceptible to contamination. This is why sarin gas is always stored in binary delivery agents. Our was, Iraq's was, Syria's is. The US finished destroying the last of our sarin in 2006 I believe, but this is sarin which was created in the early fifties and last re-destilled in the late seventies. The shells were still perfectly viable and held as our deterrent against being targeted with chemical weapons. Similarly, one of Iraq's sarin gas 155mm shells which was used as an IED in 2004 was perfectly viable and managed to slightly poison two soldiers, requiring treatment for light sarin exposure. This shell was almost certainly manufactured before the first Gulf War and failed only because of the delivery method - the barrier is broken during firing and the two components mixed by spinning. By using it as an IED there was no spinning so only a small amount of sarin gas was formed in the explosion, and most of that was undoubtedly destroyed by the conventional explosives used to break the barrier and propel the gas outward.

If properly prepared, sarin's shelf life is many decades. If improperly prepared, sarin's shelf life is weeks to months at best.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
I find it a problem regardless of religion and/or freedom. It's not quite the same as the US never asked either state to destroy and/or conquer the other, but certainly both Iraqis and Iranians resent our helping the other side and resent needing us to help them in turn.

We made the ME the hellhole it is. The Brits made Iraq to cripple the people there and we destroyed a democracy. The reason Iraq and Iran fought is ultimately we made them that way. It doesn't give terrorists license to attack without consequence but they are our creation. They don't hate our freedom, they hate what we did to them.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Maybe my memory is faulty but during WW2 didn't we support overthrowing an hereditary Iraqi leader who had himself overthrown an hereditary leader, and didn't we do that because he was in bed with the Nazis? And the Ba'thists came to power by overthrowing the monarchy; they were certainly never led by a democratically elected leader by any meaningful definition of the term, not to mention socialists. Not our kind of people.

And we certainly didn't create Iran. The Pahlavi line came to power in 1925, well after America had lost interest in the region, and while Carter ended our friendly relations with him, he certainly did not intentionally help the Islamists take power. I don't believe that Iran has ever enjoyed true democracy, nor do I think we've ever had much to do with bringing Iran's leaders to power.

Woodrow Wilson, whatever his other faults, was the prototypical progressive and opposed renewed imperialism, favoring giving non-Turkish areas within the Ottoman Empire the opportunity for self-rule. Accordingly, we were the only major power who willingly passed up the opportunity for empire-building. I fail to see what legitimate complaint either Iraq or Iran would have had against us prior to the Iraq-Iran war.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
Maybe my memory is faulty but during WW2 didn't we support overthrowing an hereditary Iraqi leader who had himself overthrown an hereditary leader, and didn't we do that because he was in bed with the Nazis? And the Ba'thists came to power by overthrowing the monarchy; they were certainly never led by a democratically elected leader by any meaningful definition of the term, not to mention socialists. Not our kind of people.

And we certainly didn't create Iran. The Pahlavi line came to power in 1925, well after America had lost interest in the region, and while Carter ended our friendly relations with him, he certainly did not intentionally help the Islamists take power. I don't believe that Iran has ever enjoyed true democracy, nor do I think we've ever had much to do with bringing Iran's leaders to power.

Woodrow Wilson, whatever his other faults, was the prototypical progressive and opposed renewed imperialism, favoring giving non-Turkish areas within the Ottoman Empire the opportunity for self-rule. Accordingly, we were the only major power who willingly passed up the opportunity for empire-building. I fail to see what legitimate complaint either Iraq or Iran would have had against us prior to the Iraq-Iran war.

Iraq was created by the Brits after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, who sided with Germany in WW1.

Iran was Persia so yes they have been around a long time.

There was a democratically elected leader who was against foreign exploitation of ME oil resources (another thing that chafes people there. Churchill came to ask the US to protect British Petroleum in Iran and Kermit Roosevelt, a relative of Teddy, and a CIA agent came up with Operation Ajax which resulted in a coup against the elected government and the installation of our puppet the Shah. The Islamic fundamentalist forces came to power in opposition to the Shah, eventually deposing him and leading to what we have today. When you put people in charge who sell you their nations resources with benefit to the citizens, unseat elected officials, and on and on you create a lasting resentment at the least and a Bin Laden as an unfortunate worst case (or at least let's hope he's as bad as it gets).

You just can't keep screwing over a people for the better part of a century because you want to control them and take their resources even if it ruins those people and say "they hate us for their freedom". They certainly do not. They resent us for taking their wealth and choices.

Now? They wouldn't trust us whatsoever. Why should they?

Now Obama becomes another in a long line of powerful foreigners who comes to the region to kill without knowing either the people involved or the facts of the matter. They die and Obama saves face? What impression is that going to make in Syria and beyond?

That's why you don't go shooting off your "red line" mouth. You do what you must, but do it quietly and when you are very sure of the nature of any conflict and the likely consequences.

Isn't happening.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
I fail to see what legitimate complaint either Iraq or Iran would have had against us prior to the Iraq-Iran war.

That's because you want to not see. The US was a staunch supporter of British intervention in the region. US troops served as occupation forces in Iraq during WW2. The CIA orchestrated the overthrow of the Iranian Mossadegh govt in 1953, and support for the Pahlavi regime thereafter.

Which doesn't even account for Palestinian refugees in Iraq after the creation of Israel.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Iraq was created by the Brits after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, who sided with Germany in WW1.

Iran was Persia so yes they have been around a long time.

There was a democratically elected leader who was against foreign exploitation of ME oil resources (another thing that chafes people there. Churchill came to ask the US to protect British Petroleum in Iran and Kermit Roosevelt, a relative of Teddy, and a CIA agent came up with Operation Ajax which resulted in a coup against the elected government and the installation of our puppet the Shah. The Islamic fundamentalist forces came to power in opposition to the Shah, eventually deposing him and leading to what we have today. When you put people in charge who sell you their nations resources with benefit to the citizens, unseat elected officials, and on and on you create a lasting resentment at the least and a Bin Laden as an unfortunate worst case (or at least let's hope he's as bad as it gets).

You just can't keep screwing over a people for the better part of a century because you want to control them and take their resources even if it ruins those people and say "they hate us for their freedom". They certainly do not. They resent us for taking their wealth and choices.

Now? They wouldn't trust us whatsoever. Why should they?

Now Obama becomes another in a long line of powerful foreigners who comes to the region to kill without knowing either the people involved or the facts of the matter. They die and Obama saves face? What impression is that going to make in Syria and beyond?

That's why you don't go shooting off your "red line" mouth. You do what you must, but do it quietly and when you are very sure of the nature of any conflict and the likely consequences.

Isn't happening.

Waaa? Michelle Bachmann and Rick Santorum told me our history with the region started in 1979 with the fall of the shah! And they hate us because of our freeeeeedummmms!