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CIA agents are not far away from criminals or terrorists

lol, ok Mr. Chinadefender. As if China is any better?

Those CIA agents will never be arrested or tried, let alone convicted. They are not criminals until they are convicted.
 
if there is adequate evidence to hold and try these CIA agents in a court of Italy I say bring them forth. It's only the neighborly thing to do -- right?
 
Those CIA agents will never be arrested or tried, let alone convicted. They are not criminals until they are convicted.
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CIA agents are not Italy agents. They did not notify Italy authority and directly captured an Egypt citizen, and then secretly took him away from Italy. Is it clearly a criminal action?

In legal sense, those CIA agents are not criminals, just suspects. But if Canadian agents went directly to New York and took someone out of US, could we call them abductors and say they are in fact criminals, or even terrorists, just not caputured yet.

As far as I know, perhaps only USSR has also done it.
 
Why don't you take a look at your own policies in Tibet and Xinjiang Chinadefender? You really have no right to talk at this point.
 
Originally posted by: Chinadefender
Those CIA agents will never be arrested or tried, let alone convicted. They are not criminals until they are convicted.
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CIA agents are not Italy agents. They did not notify Italy authority and directly captured an Egypt citizen, and then secretly took him away from Italy. Is it clearly a criminal action?

In legal sense, those CIA agents are not criminals, just suspects. But if Canadian agents went directly to New York and took someone out of US, could we call them abductors and say they are in fact criminals, or even terrorists, just not caputured yet.

As far as I know, perhaps only USSR has also done it.
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Israel has before to get former Nazi's out of South America so they could stand trial.
 

Yes, CaptainGoodnight, Israel has done the same thing.

But now only CIA did this.

And Proletariat, your example of Tibet are not the same type of questions. This is about secret agents? abduction and international law.

And it is also not far away from terroists that you simply said that someone has not right to talk
 
Originally posted by: Chinadefender

And Proletariat, your example of Tibet are not the same type of questions. This is about secret agents? abduction and international law.
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No what is Proletariat is saying is that China is one of the biggest violators of human rights in the world, and its awfully funny for some who defends China to be talking about one supposed wrong by the US. You really can?t stand on the moral high ground on this one.
 
Every year Chinese government would issue their self-defendant about the human rights violation censure

As far as I know, some international organizations also said US was also the source of human right violation, so it is also weird that someone defended for CIA agents who violated human rights and even did not dare to go to the court to defend for themselves.

You really can?t stand on the moral high ground on this one.
 
Originally posted by: Chinadefender
Every year Chinese government would issue their self-defendant about the human rights violation censure

As far as I know, some international organizations also said US was also the source of human right violation, so it is also weird that someone defended for CIA agents who violated human rights and even did not dare to go to the court to defend for themselves.

You really can?t stand on the moral high ground on this one.
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Where have I defended the CIA agents for their actions?

As for China: to say that US is on the same level as China on human rights abuses is shear ignorance on your part. What China has done in the past and is doing now comes nowhere near what the US has done.
 
This CIA operation will burden the Italian-American relationship without doubt. Not only was the operation a blatant disregard of the souvereignity of a friendly state. The fact that the CIA made an "extraordinary rendition" of Abu Omar to a state where torture is likely doesn't help either. Third the CIA backstabbed Italian preparations to charge Abu Omar, who was already shadowed by the Italian secret service back in 2003.

Interesting for the American public is that the agents booked five star hotels and celebrated their success with trips to Venice, Florence and the Veltlin. The hotel bills alone were $145'000 (source: nzz.ch). And they were traceable by mobile phones and credit cards.
 
Originally posted by: Proletariat
Why don't you take a look at your own policies in Tibet and Xinjiang Chinadefender? You really have no right to talk at this point.
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And I guess you have no right to complain if China attacks Taiwan. Just becaue somone named "Chinadefender" posts this doesn't justify what these agents did. I wonder what kind of replies this thread would be getting if "Canadadefender" posted this.
 
This whole article can't be true!!! A non-Afghani insurgent?:roll:

Foreign money and insurgents are huge threat to Afghanistan and Iraq. It's no secret that much of the funding and support comes from other countries. The United States was stupid for getting caught doing this. ALL nations do it, to includ Russia, Englan, France, Isreal, Germany etc, but most are smart enough to frame someone and not get caught.

One has to wonder if the Italians are grasping at straws though. 13 people that they know of?? Doesn't sound covert at all. It sounds like they (the Italians) are pissed off (rightly so) so just name all persons that they are suspicious off in hopes that in this large net that they can get tot he ones that are responsible.
 
Well, if the euro-pussies are not willing to stop terrorists, someone has to. Once again, it looks like the US has to do everyone elses dirty work. Big surprise here. I am sick of these enlightened Europeans sitting around while known terrorists and supporters run freely amongst them. Time to wake up. Europe needs to watch itself as the next major attack is likely to happen there - and they are in essence allowing it all to happen.
 
If Italy is trying to say they are for protecting terrorists I guess they are a terrorist state. Keep in mind that some of the people in politics in Italy are of a Socialist and Communist background. Some of these nere-do-wells in the northern part of Italy use to do things like plant bombs in cars belonging to GI's and Airmen of the United States Military. As an American and since Italy is suppose to be an Ally of the US, what does Italy have to gain from bringing up how the CIA captured an international criminal?

I do not see any good from people in Europe protecting criminals.

PS. I spent 3 years in Italy in the 1970's.
 
The beautiful thing is that Italy and the US have an extradition treaty so Italy can get these criminals for trial. But the most noteworthy aspect of the case, in my opinion, is that these people were staying in 5 star hotels at your expense. What a waste of money. They also made cell phone calls to the bureau and to their families and I want to know of the latter were paid for by our government. And since when did the CIA start earning 'stupid' prises?

And watch this story disappear from the radar.
 
Originally posted by: maluckey
(...) The United States was stupid for getting caught doing this. ALL nations do it, to includ Russia, Englan, France, Isreal, Germany etc, but most are smart enough to frame someone and not get caught.
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I don't remember other operations of the same kind than the abduction of former nazis in South America by the Mossad (that ultimately led to their death like it was probable in Omar's case) already mentioned by CaptainGoodnight. There may have been others but I don't know any. However this was an operation in a friendly country that had troops fighting side by side with the American ones in Iraq at the time this happened. One would think that the secret services would cooperate in this constellation but apparently this was not the case at all. (Israel's relationship to Argentina wasn't good at the time the Mossad acted).

Originally posted by: irwincur
Well, if the euro-pussies are not willing to stop terrorists, someone has to. Once again, it looks like the US has to do everyone elses dirty work. Big surprise here. I am sick of these enlightened Europeans sitting around while known terrorists and supporters run freely amongst them. Time to wake up. Europe needs to watch itself as the next major attack is likely to happen there - and they are in essence allowing it all to happen.
Click to expand...

Well, if the Italian were already shadowing Omar back then, and they decided to observe him further in hope of gathering more evidence or intelligence information, and then out of nowhere some foreign agents from a friendly nation abduct him on your own soil then I guess it's ok to be majorly annoyed!

Originally posted by: piasabird
If Italy is trying to say they are for protecting terrorists I guess they are a terrorist state. Keep in mind that some of the people in politics in Italy are of a Socialist and Communist background. Some of these nere-do-wells in the northern part of Italy use to do things like plant bombs in cars belonging to GI's and Airmen of the United States Military. As an American and since Italy is suppose to be an Ally of the US, what does Italy have to gain from bringing up how the CIA captured an international criminal?

I do not see any good from people in Europe protecting criminals.

PS. I spent 3 years in Italy in the 1970's.
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Well at least you were honest enough to state that your impressions are thirty years old, it's common sense nothing could have changed in the meantime! :roll: Aside from the facts that this attacks against American army personel were not executed by the government back then but by anarchistic-socialistic terrorists and that right now a rightist government is in power with a President who shares big parts of Bush's mindset.

"As an American and since Italy is suppose to be an Ally of the US, what does Italy have to gain from bringing up how the CIA captured an international criminal?" - Since the US is supposed to be an Ally of Italy, why did they do that? Did they really think that Italy would bite this bullet to stay a friend of the US, even if a mistreated one? Or did they not care?
 
Originally posted by: chambersc
if there is adequate evidence to hold and try these CIA agents in a court of Italy I say bring them forth. It's only the neighborly thing to do -- right?
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Sure, absolutely, as we all know the U.S. is very "neighborly"....
That is, if as a neighbor you like having a big boot stuck up your rearend.
 
Here's how it works. We send agents from the CIA and elsewhere. Legality is secondary to the mission. If they need to kill, so be it. Not that it's done nilly willy, but make no mistake, there is nothing that some agent will not me capable of doing. That said, if they get caught, then off with their head. The country capturing them has every right to do with them as they will.

Small snippet of reality for ya.
 
It is obvious that Italy was not moving at an appropriate rate (big surprise coming from a European lazyocracy) and that the man was needed for something. If we have an extradition treaty, they were most likely not willing to abide by it because I am sure that we probably asked them to get the man for us first. In true European fashion, I am also sure that the refused and gave some lame excuse.

Solution, do it yourself.
 
Originally posted by: irwincur
It is obvious that Italy was not moving at an appropriate rate (big surprise coming from a European lazyocracy) and that the man was needed for something. If we have an extradition treaty, they were most likely not willing to abide by it because I am sure that we probably asked them to get the man for us first. In true European fashion, I am also sure that the refused and gave some lame excuse.

Solution, do it yourself.
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Yes, have a hallucination and then rationalize doing it yourself. Careful you don't rationalize shooting yourself.
 
Originally posted by: irwincur
It is obvious that Italy was not moving at an appropriate rate (big surprise coming from a European lazyocracy) and that the man was needed for something. If we have an extradition treaty, they were most likely not willing to abide by it because I am sure that we probably asked them to get the man for us first. In true European fashion, I am also sure that the refused and gave some lame excuse.

Solution, do it yourself.
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Where did you get all this stuff? I read the entire article, nothing was made especially clear on any of those points.

Debating politics is one thing, but you're fabricating some explanation that fits with your existing bias, then arguing based on that explanation.
 
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