Church Group Raps Bush on Clean Air Act

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20040422_23.html

SEATTLE April 22 ? A national group of Christian leaders is sending a scathing letter to President Bush to coincide with Earth Day, accusing his administration of chipping away at the Clean Air Act.

The National Council of Churches argued that planned changes to power plant regulations will allow major polluters to avoid installing pollution-control equipment when they expand their facilities.

"In a spirit of shared faith and respect, we feel called to express grave moral concern about your 'Clear Skies' initiative which we believe is The Administration's continuous effort to weaken critical environmental standards to protect God's creation," the council wrote in an advance copy of the letter provided to The Associated Press.

The New-York based group, which represents 50 million people in 140,000 Protestant, Anglican and Orthodox denominations, said it was sending its two-page letter to the president on Thursday, as people all over the country celebrate Earth Day. It took out a full-page ad in The New York Times, scheduled to run in Thursday's editions, calling on Bush to leave the Clean Air Act's new source review rules in place.

The Environmental Protection Agency did not immediately return calls seeking comment Wednesday, but the agency has defended the rule changes proposed in August. EPA Administrator Mike Leavitt has called it "the biggest investment in the air quality improvement in the nation's history."

The proposal would cap emissions and allow polluters to buy and sell pollution allowances, but environmental groups complain the new system would be far too lenient.

In December a federal appeals court temporarily blocked the new rules from taking effect, agreeing with more than a dozen states and cities that contended the changes could cause irreparable harm to their environments and public health.

"The people we talk to, both inside and outside the administration, say ... that these changes will in fact weaken, not strengthen the Clean Air Act," said the Rev. Bob Edgar, a United Methodist minister and the church council's general secretary.

"And we will in fact have dirtier air and less compliance," said Edgar, who served six terms in Congress in the 1970s and '80s, representing a suburban Philadelphia district.

The council is urging ministers across the country to talk about the problems of air pollution during this week's services.

Monica Myers, pastor at Seattle's Northwest Christian Church, a Disciples of Christ congregation, said she doesn't plan to bash Bush in her sermon Sunday. Instead, she said she'll simply remind her congregation that pollution and other environmental problems tend to affect the poor more harshly than those who can afford to live in places far away from polluting factories or toxic waste sites.

"I want to emphasize that their faith should direct them as they vote," she said. "Responsible Christians should weigh the teachings of Jesus Christ, especially as they speak of those who are poor and marginalized."

The council joined the Evangelical Environmental Network in a "What would Jesus drive?" campaign in 2002, urging the auto industry to adopt stricter emissions standards and calling on SUV owners to switch to more fuel-efficient vehicles.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Conjur - why is it you are concerning yourself with what those who believe in God(who is in your opinion "the manifestation of human fear and ignorance.") are saying?

Have you also read what this group has said about faith-based initiatives?

CkG
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
27,631
5
81
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Conjur - why is it you are concerning yourself with what those who believe in God(who is in your opinion "the manifestation of human fear and ignorance.") are saying?

Have you also read what this group has said about faith-based initiatives?

CkG

Perhaps because no matter what his opinion of them they are still a driving political force in contemporary America?
 
Mar 18, 2004
339
0
0
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Perhaps Bush just isn't a very convincing Christian?

I personally believe that he played off the beliefs of Christians in the 2000 campaign and has continued to do so. I guarentee you, if he hadn't, he would not have been elected, and I hate him for that. I am an atheist however, and I do not agree with him about making policies that conincide with the dictations of Christianity; any religion for that matter. It clouds your judgement and in my view also clouds your vision in doing whats BEST for country.
 

sMiLeYz

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2003
2,696
0
76
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Conjur - why is it you are concerning yourself with what those who believe in God(who is in your opinion "the manifestation of human fear and ignorance.") are saying?

Have you also read what this group has said about faith-based initiatives?

CkG

What did this group say about Faith baised initiatives? The truth?
 
Mar 18, 2004
339
0
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Conjur - why is it you are concerning yourself with what those who believe in God(who is in your opinion "the manifestation of human fear and ignorance.") are saying?

Have you also read what this group has said about faith-based initiatives?

CkG

Im getting pretty sick of it...
Republican filth.. In response to your Kerry Baby link..
The Smear campaign goes on
Go ahead be an idiot, vote Bush and for 4 more Wars.
If you like an intelligent man of good character and one that actually HAS MILITARY EXPERIENCE, vote KERRY


? When Bush first took office, he said the economy was so good we should have huge tax cuts, but now he claims we were in a recession then and that is why we now have record deficits.

? Candidate Bush was very vocal in his criticism of nation building, but now President Bush is busy building nations in Afghanistan, Iraq, and it looks like Haiti is next. These nations are being built with our soldier?s lives and our tax dollars.

? Bush claimed his budget plan would reduce the National Debt. Instead, the federal debt has increased to almost $7 trillion.

? Candidate Bush promised to protect the Social Security trust fund, but President Bush has already squandered more than $350 billion from the fund. (Consortium News, 3/2/04)

? Bush said he would, ?enforce fiscal discipline on Congress, because when spending is out of control, deficits increase and our economic growth is hindered...", but federal spending has increased 23.7 percent since he took office. (Bill Gallagher, Friends of Liberty, 12/11/03)

? Candidate Bush proposed regulating carbon dioxide, but two months after taking office, President Bush changed his mind.

? Bush opposed a Homeland Security Department when it was proposed by Democrats; but later embraced the idea and took credit for it.

? Bush said he would veto the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform legislation, but changed his mind and signed it.

? Bush opposed an investigation of the attacks of 9/11?then he supported it, but his administration has done everything it could to obstruct the investigation.

? Bush opposed an Iraq WMD investigation, but then he's for it because he has to pretend he?s interested in why he was so wrong about Iraq?s WMD.

? When asked about gay marriage, candidate Bush said, ?the state can do what they want to do,??but now President Bush wants a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.

? During an unsuccessful run for Congress in 1978, Bush opposed the pro-life amendment and favored leaving the abortion question to a woman and her doctor. Then, like his father before him, he customized his beliefs to become more electable to conservatives. (The Nation, 6/15/00)

? Bush promised money for first responders, but failed to provide the funds.

? Bush promised billions of dollars to help fight AIDS in Africa, but failed to provide the funds.

? Bush presented his ?No Child Left Behind Program? with great fanfare, but failed to provide the funds.

? Bush continues to praise American troops, but continues to try to cut benefits for them and their families.

? Bush said, "The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden?, but changed it to, "I don't know where he is. I have no idea and I really don't care.?

and thats just the start.

please don't be a hypocrite..

eveything Kerry has "flip flopped" on has been a result of the Bush Administration
such as:

No Child Left Behind Act, Underfunded by 9billion, it is not effective, that is why he doesnt like it. Even when Bush said he would fund the program.

The 87 billion- He voted for it then voted against it because, he thought the troops needed gear. Voted against it because Bush hadn't gone about going to war the right way and it was a protest vote, he voted against it as a protest vote and knew that it would not affect the outcome of the allocated money because it was a "sure thing" to pass.

The Patriot Act- Bush has continually revised his "rules of conduct" of invading our lives in which Kerry had agreed upon in the first place.. Bush has taken it too far and there you have him changing his mind.

Care to list any other supposed Kerry "flip flops" for me so I can give you my rebutle?


 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Conjur - why is it you are concerning yourself with what those who believe in God(who is in your opinion "the manifestation of human fear and ignorance.") are saying?

Have you also read what this group has said about faith-based initiatives?

CkG

I was rather ticked off at Bush for pulling a 180-degree turn on his campaign promises. Now we have a sizable group that will make people aware of the failures of the Bush administration re:environmental policy. I wouldn't care if they represented Wiccans, atheists, Jews, Hindus, or whatever. What matters, CkG, is that people be educated about the truth.

I've also said before that I'm in favor of the faith-based initiatives. As long as churches do not preach to those in need, I have no problem with it. Many larger churches are better equipped to help people in need. Also, there are plenty of people who would be more comfortable seeking help from a church than a government agency.

I don't see the world as black and white like you do, CkG. I'm able to think about issues instead of toeing a party line.

Although, what more should we have expected of Bush re:the environment when he has so little regard for it:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/Books/The_bushes_excerpt_040406-1.html
Anytime the rains came to Midland, rejoicing could be heard in the Bush home. Little George would anxiously pace around the living room in a soiled T-shirt and jeans waiting for it to let up. When it did, he would burst out the front door and join his friends at a nearby pond.

Thousands of frogs would be there, croaking and hopping about. "Everybody would get BB guns and shoot them," recalls Terry Throckmorton, a childhood friend. "Or we'd put firecrackers in the frogs and throw them and blow them up."
 

stnicralisk

Golden Member
Jan 18, 2004
1,705
1
0
Originally posted by: Orsorum
Buncha Bush haters! :|

UH youre an idiot. These people are looking out for your children and all you can say is the typical "Bush haters!" They dont agree with one of his decisions so of course that means they hate him and want to damn his soul right Orsorum!?
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: TechJunkie95242
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Conjur - why is it you are concerning yourself with what those who believe in God(who is in your opinion "the manifestation of human fear and ignorance.") are saying?



Have you also read what this group has said about faith-based initiatives?



CkG



Im getting pretty sick of it...

Republican filth.. In response to your Kerry Baby link..

The Smear campaign goes on

Go ahead be an idiot, vote Bush and for 4 more Wars.

If you like an intelligent man of good character and one that actually HAS MILITARY EXPERIENCE, vote KERRY





? When Bush first took office, he said the economy was so good we should have huge tax cuts, but now he claims we were in a recession then and that is why we now have record deficits.



? Candidate Bush was very vocal in his criticism of nation building, but now President Bush is busy building nations in Afghanistan, Iraq, and it looks like Haiti is next. These nations are being built with our soldier?s lives and our tax dollars.



? Bush claimed his budget plan would reduce the National Debt. Instead, the federal debt has increased to almost $7 trillion.



? Candidate Bush promised to protect the Social Security trust fund, but President Bush has already squandered more than $350 billion from the fund. (Consortium News, 3/2/04)



? Bush said he would, ?enforce fiscal discipline on Congress, because when spending is out of control, deficits increase and our economic growth is hindered...", but federal spending has increased 23.7 percent since he took office. (Bill Gallagher, Friends of Liberty, 12/11/03)



? Candidate Bush proposed regulating carbon dioxide, but two months after taking office, President Bush changed his mind.



? Bush opposed a Homeland Security Department when it was proposed by Democrats; but later embraced the idea and took credit for it.



? Bush said he would veto the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform legislation, but changed his mind and signed it.



? Bush opposed an investigation of the attacks of 9/11?then he supported it, but his administration has done everything it could to obstruct the investigation.



? Bush opposed an Iraq WMD investigation, but then he's for it because he has to pretend he?s interested in why he was so wrong about Iraq?s WMD.



? When asked about gay marriage, candidate Bush said, ?the state can do what they want to do,??but now President Bush wants a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.



? During an unsuccessful run for Congress in 1978, Bush opposed the pro-life amendment and favored leaving the abortion question to a woman and her doctor. Then, like his father before him, he customized his beliefs to become more electable to conservatives. (The Nation, 6/15/00)



? Bush promised money for first responders, but failed to provide the funds.



? Bush promised billions of dollars to help fight AIDS in Africa, but failed to provide the funds.



? Bush presented his ?No Child Left Behind Program? with great fanfare, but failed to provide the funds.



? Bush continues to praise American troops, but continues to try to cut benefits for them and their families.



? Bush said, "The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden?, but changed it to, "I don't know where he is. I have no idea and I really don't care.?



and thats just the start.



please don't be a hypocrite..



eveything Kerry has "flip flopped" on has been a result of the Bush Administration

such as:



No Child Left Behind Act, Underfunded by 9billion, it is not effective, that is why he doesnt like it. Even when Bush said he would fund the program.



The 87 billion- He voted for it then voted against it because, he thought the troops needed gear. Voted against it because Bush hadn't gone about going to war the right way and it was a protest vote, he voted against it as a protest vote and knew that it would not affect the outcome of the allocated money because it was a "sure thing" to pass.



The Patriot Act- Bush has continually revised his "rules of conduct" of invading our lives in which Kerry had agreed upon in the first place.. Bush has taken it too far and there you have him changing his mind.



Care to list any other supposed Kerry "flip flops" for me so I can give you my rebutle?

Are you diverting the thread?

Conjur stated in a different thread the part in quotations, and yet he seems to want to take the words of these ignorant people who believe in GOD. But sure - whatever he wants to do...as long as it feels good.

CkG
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Conjur - why is it you are concerning yourself with what those who believe in God(who is in your opinion "the manifestation of human fear and ignorance.") are saying?

Have you also read what this group has said about faith-based initiatives?

CkG

I was rather ticked off at Bush for pulling a 180-degree turn on his campaign promises. Now we have a sizable group that will make people aware of the failures of the Bush administration re:environmental policy. I wouldn't care if they represented Wiccans, atheists, Jews, Hindus, or whatever. What matters, CkG, is that people be educated about the truth.

I've also said before that I'm in favor of the faith-based initiatives. As long as churches do not preach to those in need, I have no problem with it. Many larger churches are better equipped to help people in need. Also, there are plenty of people who would be more comfortable seeking help from a church than a government agency.

I don't see the world as black and white like you do, CkG. I'm able to think about issues instead of toeing a party line.

Oh, right...:Right; You think these people are ignorant yet suddenly like them because they want to play envirnomentalists and say Bush isn't doing enough... :p

But the faith-based issue is really a different thread - it was just used to further point out your hypocracy with this. You'll let them help but they can't preach? WTF are you to tell them who they can and can't preach to, especially since they are the ones actually trying to help people.

Anyway - back to this group's point. Sure the envirnoment needs to be taken care of, but the Clean Air Act WILL help to reduce pollution -it's just that these people and the envirnonmental whackos want much much tougher restrictions and regulations. There is a point to their argument but they also don't seem to want to understand that economic impact of many of these harsh regulations they push. Do people not bitch enough already about energy costs? Just wait for the bill after forcing strangling regulations on sectors that may not survive it and/or will raise prices through the roof.

Meh - the Envirnoment isn't a HUGE issue to most - yes it's something we need to protect and try to regulate wisely but I think the kooks have almost killed this issue with most people. Wasn't there are survey done recently about how many voters think the environment is a big issue? Wasn't it like 3% or something like that?

CkG
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Conjur - why is it you are concerning yourself with what those who believe in God(who is in your opinion "the manifestation of human fear and ignorance.") are saying?

Have you also read what this group has said about faith-based initiatives?

CkG


Would it be the same thing Jerry Falwell said, where he says it's a bad idea because those 'evil muslims' would get money too?
 
Mar 18, 2004
339
0
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: TechJunkie95242
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Conjur - why is it you are concerning yourself with what those who believe in God(who is in your opinion "the manifestation of human fear and ignorance.") are saying?



Have you also read what this group has said about faith-based initiatives?



CkG



Im getting pretty sick of it...

Republican filth.. In response to your Kerry Baby link..

The Smear campaign goes on

Go ahead be an idiot, vote Bush and for 4 more Wars.

If you like an intelligent man of good character and one that actually HAS MILITARY EXPERIENCE, vote KERRY





? When Bush first took office, he said the economy was so good we should have huge tax cuts, but now he claims we were in a recession then and that is why we now have record deficits.



? Candidate Bush was very vocal in his criticism of nation building, but now President Bush is busy building nations in Afghanistan, Iraq, and it looks like Haiti is next. These nations are being built with our soldier?s lives and our tax dollars.



? Bush claimed his budget plan would reduce the National Debt. Instead, the federal debt has increased to almost $7 trillion.



? Candidate Bush promised to protect the Social Security trust fund, but President Bush has already squandered more than $350 billion from the fund. (Consortium News, 3/2/04)



? Bush said he would, ?enforce fiscal discipline on Congress, because when spending is out of control, deficits increase and our economic growth is hindered...", but federal spending has increased 23.7 percent since he took office. (Bill Gallagher, Friends of Liberty, 12/11/03)



? Candidate Bush proposed regulating carbon dioxide, but two months after taking office, President Bush changed his mind.



? Bush opposed a Homeland Security Department when it was proposed by Democrats; but later embraced the idea and took credit for it.



? Bush said he would veto the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform legislation, but changed his mind and signed it.



? Bush opposed an investigation of the attacks of 9/11?then he supported it, but his administration has done everything it could to obstruct the investigation.



? Bush opposed an Iraq WMD investigation, but then he's for it because he has to pretend he?s interested in why he was so wrong about Iraq?s WMD.



? When asked about gay marriage, candidate Bush said, ?the state can do what they want to do,??but now President Bush wants a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.



? During an unsuccessful run for Congress in 1978, Bush opposed the pro-life amendment and favored leaving the abortion question to a woman and her doctor. Then, like his father before him, he customized his beliefs to become more electable to conservatives. (The Nation, 6/15/00)



? Bush promised money for first responders, but failed to provide the funds.



? Bush promised billions of dollars to help fight AIDS in Africa, but failed to provide the funds.



? Bush presented his ?No Child Left Behind Program? with great fanfare, but failed to provide the funds.



? Bush continues to praise American troops, but continues to try to cut benefits for them and their families.



? Bush said, "The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden?, but changed it to, "I don't know where he is. I have no idea and I really don't care.?



and thats just the start.



please don't be a hypocrite..



eveything Kerry has "flip flopped" on has been a result of the Bush Administration

such as:



No Child Left Behind Act, Underfunded by 9billion, it is not effective, that is why he doesnt like it. Even when Bush said he would fund the program.



The 87 billion- He voted for it then voted against it because, he thought the troops needed gear. Voted against it because Bush hadn't gone about going to war the right way and it was a protest vote, he voted against it as a protest vote and knew that it would not affect the outcome of the allocated money because it was a "sure thing" to pass.



The Patriot Act- Bush has continually revised his "rules of conduct" of invading our lives in which Kerry had agreed upon in the first place.. Bush has taken it too far and there you have him changing his mind.



Care to list any other supposed Kerry "flip flops" for me so I can give you my rebutle?

Are you diverting the thread?

Conjur stated in a different thread the part in quotations, and yet he seems to want to take the words of these ignorant people who believe in GOD. But sure - whatever he wants to do...as long as it feels good.

CkG

I think you are trying to avoid the fact that Bush has "flip flopped" on more issues than Kerry has, and I feel like the GOP are getting so desperate in their attacks and to dig up dirt they need to insult him. When your "Kerry Baby" song mentions Veitnam... Well at least he went, I ask you, where was Bush?
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
But the faith-based issue is really a different thread - it was just used to further point out your hypocracy with this. You'll let them help but they can't preach? WTF are you to tell them who they can and can't preach to, especially since they are the ones actually trying to help people.

CkG

NO preaching, Cad. That's what pisses people off: Government-sanctioned and sponsored preaching. Just freaking help the people and STFU. That's what really matters, right? Helping the people? Or is it just a thinly-veiled way to proselytize to more people?
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

But the faith-based issue is really a different thread - it was just used to further point out your hypocracy with this. You'll let them help but they can't preach? WTF are you to tell them who they can and can't preach to, especially since they are the ones actually trying to help people.

CkG
NO preaching, Cad. That's what pisses people off: Government-sanctioned and sponsored preaching. Just freaking help the people and STFU. That's what really matters, right? Helping the people? Or is it just a thinly-veiled way to proselytize to more people?

Exactly...not hypocritical at all.
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
27,631
5
81
Originally posted by: stnicralisk
Originally posted by: Orsorum

Buncha Bush haters! :|



UH youre an idiot. These people are looking out for your children and all you can say is the typical "Bush haters!" They dont agree with one of his decisions so of course that means they hate him and want to damn his soul right Orsorum!?

lol Someone's never read my posts before.

Cheers!
Nate
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
Originally posted by: Orsorum
Originally posted by: stnicralisk
Originally posted by: Orsorum

Buncha Bush haters! :|



UH youre an idiot. These people are looking out for your children and all you can say is the typical "Bush haters!" They dont agree with one of his decisions so of course that means they hate him and want to damn his soul right Orsorum!?

lol Someone's never read my posts before.

Cheers!
Nate

Ya think?

:p
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,936
10,823
147
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Conjur - why is it you are concerning yourself with what those who believe in God(who is in your opinion "the manifestation of human fear and ignorance.") are saying? Have you also read what this group has said about faith-based initiatives? CkG

Gee, CkG,
I believe in Jesus Christ, the reserected Son of God the Father, and I believe in the Holy Ghost . . .

It is sad there are so many who have lost their way posting here. But all is not lost. If you talk about it, perhaps the seed will be planted that will someday bring forth your desires to follow the Truth and Light that is in your Savior, Jesus Christ.:heart:

Amen:heart:

CkG

Perhaps the better question is why you, such an avowedly devout Christian, so quickly harden your :heart: when such a broad based group of Christian leaders (representing 50 million strong) dare, at long last

"In a spirit of shared faith and respect, we feel called to express grave moral concern about your 'Clear Skies' initiative which we believe is The Administration's continuous effort to weaken critical environmental standards to protect God's creation,"


toopenly criticize yourpuny little ideological hero.

How blind can you be to your own hypocrisy?Would your Jesus "bitch enough already about energy costs?" Is the National Council of Churches a "bunch of whackos"? How many more must you so brand to deny the truth?

I fear your :heart: is smudged with the soot of your greed for short term gain. Look to your soul as well, or some may say you are a Sunday surface pseudo Christian.

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: TechJunkie95242
I think you are trying to avoid the fact that Bush has "flip flopped" on more issues than Kerry has, and I feel like the GOP are getting so desperate in their attacks and to dig up dirt they need to insult him. When your "Kerry Baby" song mentions Veitnam... Well at least he went, I ask you, where was Bush?

You..................................................................................Topic


Thanks for playing.

CkG
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

But the faith-based issue is really a different thread - it was just used to further point out your hypocracy with this. You'll let them help but they can't preach? WTF are you to tell them who they can and can't preach to, especially since they are the ones actually trying to help people.



CkG



NO preaching, Cad. That's what pisses people off: Government-sanctioned and sponsored preaching. Just freaking help the people and STFU. That's what really matters, right? Helping the people? Or is it just a thinly-veiled way to proselytize to more people?

Yes, helping those who NEED help is what is important with charities. But who are YOU(a bystander) to tell someone who they can and can't preach to? Are you both trying to limit what they people can say/do? How very elitist of those who are standing on the sidelines looking in. Maybe YOU should get off your duff and help those who NEED help instead of whining about those who actually ARE HELPING those who need it.

CkG
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Conjur - why is it you are concerning yourself with what those who believe in God(who is in your opinion "the manifestation of human fear and ignorance.") are saying? Have you also read what this group has said about faith-based initiatives? CkG

Gee, CkG,
I believe in Jesus Christ, the reserected Son of God the Father, and I believe in the Holy Ghost . . .

It is sad there are so many who have lost their way posting here. But all is not lost. If you talk about it, perhaps the seed will be planted that will someday bring forth your desires to follow the Truth and Light that is in your Savior, Jesus Christ.:heart:

Amen:heart:

CkG

Perhaps the better question is why you, such an avowedly devout Christian, so quickly harden your  :heart: when such a broad based group of Christian leaders (representing 50 million strong) dare, at long last

"In a spirit of shared faith and respect, we feel called to express grave moral concern about your 'Clear Skies' initiative which we believe is The Administration's continuous effort to weaken critical environmental standards to protect God's creation,"
 

to openly criticize your puny little ideological hero. 

How blind can you be to your own hypocrisy? Would your Jesus "bitch enough already about energy costs?"  Is the National Council of Churches a "bunch of whackos"?  How many more must you so brand to deny the truth?

I fear your :heart: is smudged with the soot of your greed for short term gain. Look to your soul as well,  or some may say you are a Sunday surface pseudo Christian.

Seems you have trouble reading...;)

I did not call these people wackos - I said them AND the environmental whackos...but I understand people here have issues with reading. Also, I wasn't saying I'd complain about higher prices - just the people who try to use this as a political tool and then whine and bitch about energy prices. If I had my way, we'd be building NEW cleaner refineries and powerplants, but the environmentalist wackos don't seem to want to allow them to be build...go figure:roll:
Being wise stewards of the land and environment can be accomplished without being a rabid wacko. I commend these people's push for better environmental policies and cleaner energy and what-not but they have to understand that they will not get everything they want. The Clean Air Act does infact help the environment and these people don't think it's enough. And...? I don't think we do enough with renewable energies and wind energy but I'm not blaming one person/Admin because they didn't give me everything I want.
So anyway - go ahead and try to question my commitment to the environment and GOD if you wish, but I will tell you - both GOD and I know where my commitment levels are and you sir don't seem to have a clue;)

CkG
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,936
10,823
147
So anyway - go ahead and try to question my commitment to the environment and GOD if you wish, but I will tell you - both GOD and I know where my commitment levels are and you sir don't seem to have a clue;)

'Twas you
Conjur - why is it you are concerning yourself with what those who believe in God(who is in your opinion "the manifestation of human fear and ignorance.") are saying?
who first played the God card.

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Perknose
So anyway - go ahead and try to question my commitment to the environment and GOD if you wish, but I will tell you - both GOD and I know where my commitment levels are and you sir don't seem to have a clue;)

'Twas you
Conjur - why is it you are concerning yourself with what those who believe in God(who is in your opinion "the manifestation of human fear and ignorance.") are saying?
who first played the God card.

Your point? Conjur thinks people who believe in God are ingnorant. So why exactly is he trumpeting what they say?
In a spirit of shared faith and respect, we feel called to express grave moral concern about your 'Clear Skies' initiative which we believe is The Administration's continuous effort to weaken critical environmental standards to protect God's creation,"

Meh - it doesn't matter really - we all know why he posted it;)

CkG
 

Zephyr106

Banned
Jul 2, 2003
1,309
0
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

But the faith-based issue is really a different thread - it was just used to further point out your hypocracy with this. You'll let them help but they can't preach? WTF are you to tell them who they can and can't preach to, especially since they are the ones actually trying to help people.



CkG



NO preaching, Cad. That's what pisses people off: Government-sanctioned and sponsored preaching. Just freaking help the people and STFU. That's what really matters, right? Helping the people? Or is it just a thinly-veiled way to proselytize to more people?

Yes, helping those who NEED help is what is important with charities. But who are YOU(a bystander) to tell someone who they can and can't preach to? Are you both trying to limit what they people can say/do? How very elitist of those who are standing on the sidelines looking in. Maybe YOU should get off your duff and help those who NEED help instead of whining about those who actually ARE HELPING those who need it.

CkG

What's always nice is when elitist religious organizations decide to exclude certain people from getting help.

Zephyr