church fires women after 54 years. claiming bible says "women can not teach men"

[artikk]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: Kalmah
hrmmm do unto others as you would like others to do to you... unless she is a woman?

Christians :disgust:

These people aren't really Christians, they're heretics. (In the sense that Christians are supposed to worship God, not the Bible.)

hmm, since Bible is, supposedly, God's word, would you not follow God's word too, and worship God according to his word as well?

 

[Ausm]

I think religion should be terminated.


Ausm

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: ForumMaster
what a bastard. sunday school or not, it's called "seperation of church and state" and if she was there for 54 years, it appears that she did a good job. he should be fired.

how is the state involved in this?

They'll be involved when the church gets nailed for wrongful termination.

That's not going to happen.

Here is a press release from the pastor for anyone that is interested:

http://www.newzjunky.com/record/0820labouf.htm

Here is a press release from the church

http://www.newzjunky.com/record/0820firstbaptist.htm

and for those of you with the knee jerk reaction of putting down Christians in general over this i say how unChristian of you.

Having read a bit of that it seems my first comment was right on - organizational politics, of which church politics seems to be among the most acrimonious. It's still disturbing to me that they would choose make such a public statement about the role of women in the church.

Yeh, especially when that is not representative of what is actually happening at their church.

"Currently 55% of the Diaconate Board members of First Baptist Church are women. Additionally, by September, 87% of all Sunday School teaching positions will be filled by female educators."
http://www.newzjunky.com/record/0820firstbaptist.htm

I don't see where they are excluding women, and therefore they used the scripture interpretation as a way to dump the ole bag who has been giving them a hard time about the changes the new pastor has been trying to create in the church. Instead of bringing up the real dirt on her they chose to go the "scripture" told them to fire her route. Probably not the best way to do it.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: ForumMaster
what a bastard. sunday school or not, it's called "seperation of church and state" and if she was there for 54 years, it appears that she did a good job. he should be fired.

how is the state involved in this?

They'll be involved when the church gets nailed for wrongful termination.

That's not going to happen.

Here is a press release from the pastor for anyone that is interested:

http://www.newzjunky.com/record/0820labouf.htm

Here is a press release from the church

http://www.newzjunky.com/record/0820firstbaptist.htm

and for those of you with the knee jerk reaction of putting down Christians in general over this i say how unChristian of you.

Having read a bit of that it seems my first comment was right on - organizational politics, of which church politics seems to be among the most acrimonious. It's still disturbing to me that they would choose make such a public statement about the role of women in the church.

Yeh, especially when that is not representative of what is actually happening at their church.

"Currently 55% of the Diaconate Board members of First Baptist Church are women. Additionally, by September, 87% of all Sunday School teaching positions will be filled by female educators."
http://www.newzjunky.com/record/0820firstbaptist.htm

I don't see where they are excluding women, and therefore they used the scripture interpretation as a way to dump the ole bag who has been giving them a hard time about the changes the new pastor has been trying to create in the church. Instead of bringing up the real dirt on her they chose to go the "scripture" told them to fire her route. Probably not the best way to do it.

So what's going on? Are they being complete hypocrites and only applying the quoted scripture to this one troublesome woman? The only out I can see is that the 87% of the sunday school teaching positions filled by women are only for teaching children - since the scripture says "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man"

The pastor implies that he has different standards for the roles of women inside and outside the church:

Many have drawn conclusions as to how this issue applies to my role as a Watertown City Councilmember. My belief is that the qualifications for both men and women teaching spiritual matters in a church setting end at the church door, period.

And then goes on a long spiel about how much respect and admiration he has for the jobs women do outside the church. Sounds alot like the old cliche "I'm not prejudiuced ... why, some of my best friends are black/gay/etc."

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: bignateyk
The First Baptist Church ... theres a suprise :disgust:

Baptist != Southern Baptist

Originally posted by: Armitage
The pastor implies that he has different standards for the roles of women inside and outside the church:

Many have drawn conclusions as to how this issue applies to my role as a Watertown City Councilmember. My belief is that the qualifications for both men and women teaching spiritual matters in a church setting end at the church door, period.

And then goes on a long spiel about how much respect and admiration he has for the jobs women do outside the church. Sounds alot like the old cliche "I'm not prejudiuced ... why, some of my best friends are black/gay/etc."

First of all, you're criticizing him for keeping his believes restricted to the church and not forcing them on anyone outside of the church. That's rather strange... the opposite of what most people criticize the church for.

Secondly, they more or less admitted that the reason they gave for firing her was a made up excuse so they wouldn't have to make her look bad by revealing the REAL reason, which is that she was a troublemaker who refused to deal with her problems the way the church made available to her.

 

[bignateyk]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: bignateyk
The First Baptist Church ... theres a suprise :disgust:

Baptist != Southern Baptist

ah.. I thought all baptists were the same <ignorance ++>

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: ForumMaster
what a bastard. sunday school or not, it's called "seperation of church and state" and if she was there for 54 years, it appears that she did a good job. he should be fired.

how is the state involved in this?

They'll be involved when the church gets nailed for wrongful termination.

That's not going to happen.

Here is a press release from the pastor for anyone that is interested:

http://www.newzjunky.com/record/0820labouf.htm

Here is a press release from the church

http://www.newzjunky.com/record/0820firstbaptist.htm

and for those of you with the knee jerk reaction of putting down Christians in general over this i say how unChristian of you.

Having read a bit of that it seems my first comment was right on - organizational politics, of which church politics seems to be among the most acrimonious. It's still disturbing to me that they would choose make such a public statement about the role of women in the church.

Yeh, especially when that is not representative of what is actually happening at their church.

"Currently 55% of the Diaconate Board members of First Baptist Church are women. Additionally, by September, 87% of all Sunday School teaching positions will be filled by female educators."
http://www.newzjunky.com/record/0820firstbaptist.htm

I don't see where they are excluding women, and therefore they used the scripture interpretation as a way to dump the ole bag who has been giving them a hard time about the changes the new pastor has been trying to create in the church. Instead of bringing up the real dirt on her they chose to go the "scripture" told them to fire her route. Probably not the best way to do it.

I'll say, especially since it will cost them a wrongful termination suit.

...in the specific case of Ms. Lambert the Board?s decision to remove her from a teaching position was multifaceted and the scriptural rules concerning women teaching men in a church setting was only a small aspect of that decision.

If it's any aspect of the decision, they'll get nailed.

 

[moshquerade]

Yes, like I said. They used the scripture interpretation to dismiss her from her volunteer sunday school teaching job instead of the real reason which would've aired all her dirty laundry.

I guess they were damned if they did and damned if they didn't. Now the ole bag has FOX news calling her to further the soap opera.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: bignateyk
The First Baptist Church ... theres a suprise :disgust:

Baptist != Southern Baptist

well duh! some are southern!

 

[Miramonti]

Like I've said before, the only problem I have with Christianity is the Christians.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: jjsole
Like I've said before, the only problem I have with Christianity is the Christians.

really, that is an arrogant assertation. don't judge the whole on the actions of a few.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: ForumMaster
what a bastard. sunday school or not, it's called "seperation of church and state" and if she was there for 54 years, it appears that she did a good job. he should be fired.

how is the state involved in this?

They'll be involved when the church gets nailed for wrongful termination.

That's not going to happen.

Here is a press release from the pastor for anyone that is interested:

http://www.newzjunky.com/record/0820labouf.htm

Here is a press release from the church

http://www.newzjunky.com/record/0820firstbaptist.htm

and for those of you with the knee jerk reaction of putting down Christians in general over this i say how unChristian of you.

Having read a bit of that it seems my first comment was right on - organizational politics, of which church politics seems to be among the most acrimonious. It's still disturbing to me that they would choose make such a public statement about the role of women in the church.

Yeh, especially when that is not representative of what is actually happening at their church.

"Currently 55% of the Diaconate Board members of First Baptist Church are women. Additionally, by September, 87% of all Sunday School teaching positions will be filled by female educators."
http://www.newzjunky.com/record/0820firstbaptist.htm

I don't see where they are excluding women, and therefore they used the scripture interpretation as a way to dump the ole bag who has been giving them a hard time about the changes the new pastor has been trying to create in the church. Instead of bringing up the real dirt on her they chose to go the "scripture" told them to fire her route. Probably not the best way to do it.

I'll say, especially since it will cost them a wrongful termination suit.

...in the specific case of Ms. Lambert the Board?s decision to remove her from a teaching position was multifaceted and the scriptural rules concerning women teaching men in a church setting was only a small aspect of that decision.

If it's any aspect of the decision, they'll get nailed.

i have seen no mention of a lawsuit. can she sue for dismissal from a voluntary sunday school teaching postion?

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Yes, like I said. They used the scripture interpretation to dismiss her from her volunteer sunday school teaching job instead of the real reason which would've aired all her dirty laundry.

I guess they were damned if they did and damned if they didn't. Now the ole bag has FOX news calling her to further the soap opera.

There was no need to air any dirty laundry - they could have simply told her she was no longer welcome to teach at the church and told her personally why if need be. Any external questions could have simply been answered with some vague statement about personality conflicts, organizational goals, etc. Or no answer at all just like any other organization in a similar situation. And none of us would ever have heard anything about the 1st Babtist Church of Waterton NY

Instead they chose to make this asinine dark-ages statement about the role of women in the church guarenteeing it would become front page news.

 

[allisolm]

Originally posted by: Armitage
Having read a bit of that it seems my first comment was right on - organizational politics, of which church politics seems to be among the most acrimonious. It's still disturbing to me that they would choose make such a public statement about the role of women in the church.

Yeah, I don't think I would want to belong to a church that saw separate roles for men and women in the church, let alone entertained the possibility that men should hold higher positions than the women - oh, wait, I'm a Catholic...

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: allisolm

Originally posted by: Armitage
Having read a bit of that it seems my first comment was right on - organizational politics, of which church politics seems to be among the most acrimonious. It's still disturbing to me that they would choose make such a public statement about the role of women in the church.

Yeah, I don't think I would want to belong to a church that saw separate roles for men and women in the church, let alone entertained the possibility that men should hold higher positions than the women - oh, wait, I'm a Catholic...

And somehow the Catholic attitude regarding the role of women persists and thrives. But it isn't well regarded in most protestant denomination, many of which have had women pastors for decades.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Yes, like I said. They used the scripture interpretation to dismiss her from her volunteer sunday school teaching job instead of the real reason which would've aired all her dirty laundry.

I guess they were damned if they did and damned if they didn't. Now the ole bag has FOX news calling her to further the soap opera.

There was no need to air any dirty laundry - they could have simply told her she was no longer welcome to teach at the church and told her personally why if need be. Any external questions could have simply been answered with some vague statement about personality conflicts, organizational goals, etc. Or no answer at all just like any other organization in a similar situation. And none of us would ever have heard anything about the 1st Babtist Church of Waterton NY

Instead they chose to make this asinine dark-ages statement about the role of women in the church guarenteeing it would become front page news.

i would say that "instead" the old lady decided to take it to the media.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Yes, like I said. They used the scripture interpretation to dismiss her from her volunteer sunday school teaching job instead of the real reason which would've aired all her dirty laundry.

I guess they were damned if they did and damned if they didn't. Now the ole bag has FOX news calling her to further the soap opera.

There was no need to air any dirty laundry - they could have simply told her she was no longer welcome to teach at the church and told her personally why if need be. Any external questions could have simply been answered with some vague statement about personality conflicts, organizational goals, etc. Or no answer at all just like any other organization in a similar situation. And none of us would ever have heard anything about the 1st Babtist Church of Waterton NY

Instead they chose to make this asinine dark-ages statement about the role of women in the church guarenteeing it would become front page news.

i would say that "instead" the old lady decided to take it to the media.

She wouldn't have had anything to take to the media without their "scriptural" excuse for letting her go.

And what does her age have to do with it anyway? Old lady ... ole bag?

 

[Red Dawn]

If you mingle with Jackals how can you be surprised if they turn around and bite you?

 

[allisolm]

Dear Sir,
We are terminating your position with us due to excessive alien abductions cutting into your hours.

We are actually firing you because you embezzled a million dollars and shtupped the Board President's wife but we didn't want to say that, so we went with the alien thing instead, feeling that would be more easily accepted.

Riiiiight!

 

[DrPizza]

Christian courtesy motivates us to refrain from making any public accusations against her.

Wow, isn't that exactly what the problem was with the Catholic church moving priests around?

I'm guessing that at her age, she was concerned with the direction the church was going, but the church was more interested in numbers of worshippers (i.e. numbers of people paying a tithe to the church). Some churches do some funny things in the interest of keeping the numbers up, even ignoring some of what had once been considered principles.

edit: she was probably telling the little 6 year olds in Sunday school that they were going to burn in h e double toothpicks because their mommy wasn't married. Old-school church vs. new-school "we'll forgive everything as long as you're paying your tithe."

edit edit: I was brought up as a Catholic... hadn't gone to church in years, but went with some close friends of our family to a different church. "Wtf? I've just been pardoned of all my sins for the past 8 years? No confession to go to? Woot! As long as I don't die unexpectedly, I'll just go to that church a week or so before I die and BAMMMM. Free ticket to heaven."

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Armitage

She wouldn't have had anything to take to the media without their "scriptural" excuse for letting her go.

And what does her age have to do with it anyway? Old lady ... ole bag?

Headline:
Church Fires Little Old Lady for Disagreeing with Pastor

The media can make a story out of anything.

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Christian courtesy motivates us to refrain from making any public accusations against her.

Wow, isn't that exactly what the problem was with the Catholic church moving priests around?

I'm guessing that at her age, she was concerned with the direction the church was going, but the church was more interested in numbers of worshippers (i.e. numbers of people paying a tithe to the church). Some churches do some funny things in the interest of keeping the numbers up, even ignoring some of what had once been considered principles.

Divisions between old people and young people in churches usually have more to do with the type of music they play than anything else. Old people like hymns. Young people like livelier songs. Many churches have traditional and contemporary services because of that.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Christian courtesy motivates us to refrain from making any public accusations against her.

Wow, isn't that exactly what the problem was with the Catholic church moving priests around?

I'm guessing that at her age, she was concerned with the direction the church was going, but the church was more interested in numbers of worshippers (i.e. numbers of people paying a tithe to the church). Some churches do some funny things in the interest of keeping the numbers up, even ignoring some of what had once been considered principles.

edit: she was probably telling the little 6 year olds in Sunday school that they were going to burn in h e double toothpicks because their mommy wasn't married. Old-school church vs. new-school "we'll forgive everything as long as you're paying your tithe."

edit edit: I was brought up as a Catholic... hadn't gone to church in years, but went with some close friends of our family to a different church. "Wtf? I've just been pardoned of all my sins for the past 8 years? No confession to go to? Woot! As long as I don't die unexpectedly, I'll just go to that church a week or so before I die and BAMMMM. Free ticket to heaven."

Is there any scriptural basis for confession? Or was it just dreamed up as a way to keep track of the rabble and satisfy the prurient intrests of the priests? I've always been cxurious about that - though obviously not curious enough to actually do any research on it.

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

One year prior to his retirement, my wife's uncle (Methodist Minister) was 'demoted' from a large congregation to a much smaller one that paid significantly less. Since their retirement benefits were driven by the most recent salary rather than the highest (or average high) salary, he was suddenly looking at significantly lower retirement benefits.

He sued for age discrimination and won.

As organizations, churches display the same range of poor practices as secular ones...

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: jjsole
Like I've said before, the only problem I have with Christianity is the Christians.

really, that is an arrogant assertation. don't judge the whole on the actions of a few.

Sorry it offends you, but its not an assertion but a fact based on my opinion, and the basis for my opinion extends far beyond a school teacher being fired after 54 years.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: jjsole

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: jjsole
Like I've said before, the only problem I have with Christianity is the Christians.

really, that is an arrogant assertation. don't judge the whole on the actions of a few.

Sorry it offends you, but its not an assertion but a fact based on my opinion, and the basis for my opinion extends far beyond a school teacher being fired after 54 years.

You don't seem to understand what at least two of these three words mean:
- Assertion
- Fact
- Opinion