Christians, Jews, and Muslims show rare case of unity... by oppressing gays and lesbians.

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Clerics Fighting a Gay Festival for Jerusalem
By LAURIE GOODSTEIN and GREG MYRE

International gay leaders are planning a 10-day WorldPride festival and parade in Jerusalem in August, saying they want to make a statement about tolerance and diversity in the Holy City, home to three great religious traditions.

Now major leaders of the three faiths - Christianity, Judaism and Islam - are making a rare show of unity to try to stop the festival. They say the event would desecrate the city and convey the erroneous impression that homosexuality is acceptable.

"They are creating a deep and terrible sorrow that is unbearable," Shlomo Amar, Israel's Sephardic chief rabbi, said yesterday at a news conference in Jerusalem attended by Israel's two chief rabbis, the patriarchs of the Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox and Armenian churches, and three senior Muslim prayer leaders. "It hurts all of the religions. We are all against it."

Abdel Aziz Bukhari, a Sufi sheik, added: "We can't permit anybody to come and make the Holy City dirty. This is very ugly and very nasty to have these people come to Jerusalem."

Israeli authorities have not indicated what action, if any, they might take to limit the events. Banning the festival would seem unlikely, though the government could withhold the required permits for specific events, like a parade.

Interfaith agreement is unusual in Israel. The leaders' joint opposition was initially generated by the Rev. Leo Giovinetti, an evangelical pastor from San Diego who is both a veteran of the American culture war over homosexuality and a frequent visitor to Israel, where he has formed relationships with rabbis and politicians.

Organizers of the gay pride event, Jerusalem WorldPride 2005, said that 75 non-Orthodox rabbis had signed a statement of support for the event, and that Christian and Muslim leaders as well as Israeli politicians were expected to announce their support soon. They said they were dismayed to see that what united their opponents was their objection to homosexuality.

"That is something new I've never witnessed before, such an attempt to globalize bigotry," said Hagai El-Ad, the executive director of Jerusalem Open House, a gay and lesbian group that is the host for the festival. "It's quite sad and ironic that these religious figures are coming together around such a negative message."

Rabbi Sharon Kleinbaum, co-chairwoman of the festival and the rabbi of Congregation Beth Simchat Torah, a gay synagogue in New York City, said the controversy was another sign that each religion had become polarized between its liberal and conservative wings.

The global Anglican Communion split deeply over homosexuality in the last two years after its American affiliate ordained an openly gay bishop and the Canada affiliate decided to allow blessings of same-sex unions.

"I reject that they have the right to define religion in such a narrow way," Rabbi Kleinbaum said of religious leaders who denounce homosexuality. "Gay and lesbian people are saying we are equal partners in religious communities, and we believe in a religious world in which all are created in God's image."

The festival is planned for Aug. 18-28 and is expected to draw thousands of visitors from dozens of countries. The theme is "Love Without Borders," and a centerpiece will be a parade on Aug. 25 through Jerusalem, a city that remains deeply conservative, though other parts of Israel have become increasingly accepting of gays in recent years. Other events include a film festival, art exhibits and a conference for clerics.

When the first WorldPride festival was held five years ago in Rome, religious opposition came from the Vatican, while secular opposition came from a neo-Fascist group that vowed to hold a counterdemonstration. But the neo-Fascists canceled their demonstration, the march came off peacefully, and even a few center-right politicians joined many thousands of marchers.

One day later, however, Pope John Paul II appeared on a balcony over St. Peter's Square and delivered a message expressing his "bitterness" that the gay festival had gone forward, calling it an "offense to the Christian values of a city that is so dear to the hearts of Catholics across the world."

Both WorldPride festivals were initiated by an umbrella group, InterPride, that says its mission is to promote gay rights internationally.

The outcry over the 2005 festival will not be confined to Israel. The American evangelical leader who helped to galvanize the opposition, Mr. Giovinetti, is the senior pastor of Mission Valley Christian Fellowship, an independent church that meets in a hotel in Southern California. A former band leader in Las Vegas, he is also host of a radio program heard on stations around the United States.

Neither he nor other evangelical American leaders were at the news conference in Jerusalem, which was called by the chief rabbinate of Israel. But by all accounts Mr. Giovinetti played a crucial role in spreading the first alarms among religious leaders about the gay festival.

He said he had first heard about WorldPride from a congregation member who had told Mr. Giovinetti that he was gay for many years and still monitored gay Web sites. Mr. Giovinetti said he alerted Israeli politicians and religious leaders.

Mr. Giovinetti circulated a petition against the festival, titled "Homosexuals to Desecrate Jerusalem," which he said had been signed by every member of the ultra-Orthodox Shas Party in the Israeli Parliament. Another American who helped bring together the opposition was Rabbi Yehuda Levin, of the Rabbinical Alliance of America, which says it represents more than 1,000 American Orthodox rabbis. At the news conference in Jerusalem, he called the festival "the spiritual rape of the Holy City." He said, "This is not the homo land, this is the Holy Land."

Annual marches by homosexuals have become routine in Tel Aviv, a secular coastal city. For the past three years, gay parades have also been staged in Jerusalem. Religious groups have complained, but the police have issued permits for the events, which have been held without any serious incidents.

http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=h...ldspecial/31gay.html&OP=53d4693b/0lVr0!REpQ27RR}Q3D0Q3DAAT0AQ3C0Q3CQ2B0Q5EQ3A}VQ27Q3AW}Q5ERQ3AW_0lRQ27_!pfVEQ5EW_0Q3CQ2BQ26WiQ2AQ3E}Q25_

It's nice to see the world's 3 major religion's united by hatred and bigotry. But hey, at least they're finding common ground!

 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
It's still reasonably PC to hate gays and you can get away with it quite publically. It's ridiculous, of course, but the weak always need somebody to look down upon to make their own lives seem better by comparison.
 

StormRider

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2000
8,324
2
0
When will people realize that God created gays to help straight guys dress better so we can have a better chance with girls? It's quite simple, really.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: StormRider
When will people realize that God created gays to help straight guys dress better so we can have a better chance with girls? It's quite simple, really.
Why haven't you been perma-banned yet?

STFU.
 

StormRider

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2000
8,324
2
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: StormRider
When will people realize that God created gays to help straight guys dress better so we can have a better chance with girls? It's quite simple, really.
Why haven't you been perma-banned yet?

STFU.


You STFU asshat.
 

PatboyX

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2001
7,024
0
0
Originally posted by: Skoorb
It's still reasonably PC to hate gays and you can get away with it quite publically. It's ridiculous, of course, but the weak always need somebody to look down upon to make their own lives seem better by comparison.


this is true. but at least there is some movement happening with the homosexual community.
it is not something that "we just dont talk about" and i think its turning around with how a lot of us standard, non-powerful citizen feel about homosexuals. i think it can become trouble when we have a lot of media-made popular homosexual things going on. like queer eye and will and grace.
on one hand the homosexual community seems to really embrace those things...but something like will and grace seems so damn close to blackface im amazed people dig it. and as those type of things became popular, you saw a backlash which really allowed people who already were uncomfortable by gay presence in society a voice to express that anger.
so, it goes back and forth but i think we are taking more steps forward than backward. i think the religious groups might be a bit behind in the acceptance...but that doesnt always mean that those people involved are. see: mormons and race, catholics and birth control.
"head office" saying something doesnt mean the rest agree.

that being said, its really easy for me...having not had to deal with this sort of hate in my life, personally. as a middle class, white, straight man...i get the tiniest tip of the S stick.

 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
Religion has NEVER been about tolerance and acceptance. It has always been about "we are right, and you are wrong." In extreme cases (Islamic fanaticism), it's about "we're right and you're wrong, so you must die."
 

imported_KirbsAw

Golden Member
Apr 23, 2004
1,472
1
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: StormRider
When will people realize that God created gays to help straight guys dress better so we can have a better chance with girls? It's quite simple, really.
Why haven't you been perma-banned yet?

STFU.

That would make a really cool ironic mod quote.
 

StormRider

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2000
8,324
2
0
Originally posted by: PatboyX
Originally posted by: Skoorb
It's still reasonably PC to hate gays and you can get away with it quite publically. It's ridiculous, of course, but the weak always need somebody to look down upon to make their own lives seem better by comparison.


this is true. but at least there is some movement happening with the homosexual community.
it is not something that "we just dont talk about" and i think its turning around with how a lot of us standard, non-powerful citizen feel about homosexuals. i think it can become trouble when we have a lot of media-made popular homosexual things going on. like queer eye and will and grace.
on one hand the homosexual community seems to really embrace those things...but something like will and grace seems so damn close to blackface im amazed people dig it. and as those type of things became popular, you saw a backlash which really allowed people who already were uncomfortable by gay presence in society a voice to express that anger.
so, it goes back and forth but i think we are taking more steps forward than backward. i think the religious groups might be a bit behind in the acceptance...but that doesnt always mean that those people involved are. see: mormons and race, catholics and birth control.
"head office" saying something doesnt mean the rest agree.

that being said, its really easy for me...having not had to deal with this sort of hate in my life, personally. as a middle class, white, straight man...i get the tiniest tip of the S stick.


I actually think shows like "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" help lessen the likihood of gays being the victims of hate crimes in the future. I saw some news about this show and they showed some guys who were being "helped" and I thought, "Wow, that guy looks like a stereotypical gay basher but he's being okay around gays." And the funny thought occurred to me that maybe one way of lessening hatred of gays is for straight guys to think of them as friends who can help us with our weakesses such as decorating and dressing up.
 

JustAnAverageGuy

Diamond Member
Aug 1, 2003
9,057
0
76
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Is this the kind of parade we're talking about?

Text

Text

Text

Text

Text

Your google image search skills are unmatched.

However, I think it should be pointed out (as it should be obvious) that not all gay men are men in chicks clothes or black leather gear.

Perhaps you should fine some more representative photos?
 

eriqesque

Senior member
Jan 4, 2002
704
0
71
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: StormRider
When will people realize that God created gays to help straight guys dress better so we can have a better chance with girls? It's quite simple, really.
Why haven't you been perma-banned yet?

STFU.


I thought that StormRider's statement was funny.


And I'm gay.
 

jbaggins

Senior member
Oct 19, 2004
261
0
0
Religion has NEVER been about tolerance and acceptance. It has always been about "we are right, and you are wrong." In extreme cases (Islamic fanaticism), it's about "we're right and you're wrong, so you must die."

Religions by the book that is.

Hinduism and Buddhism do preach tolerance and acceptance.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
Originally posted by: JustAnAverageGuy
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Is this the kind of parade we're talking about?

Text

Text

Text

Text

Text

Your google image search skills are unmatched.

However, I think it should be pointed out (as it should be obvious) that not all gay men are men in chicks clothes or black leather gear.

Perhaps you should fine some more representative photos?

I just asked if this is the kind of parade the homosexuals are planning on holding in the Holy City.

Is the answer yes or no?

p.s. I just showed the "tame" pictures. I've seen a few gay parades and these pics are fairly representative.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Fundamentalists (regardless of specific religion) = religious extremists. They're all a few sandwiches short of a picnic and should be treated accordingly.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Fundamentalists (regardless of specific religion) = religious extremists. They're all a few sandwiches short of a picnic and should be treated accordingly.

What do you mean by they "should be treated accordingly"?
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: JustAnAverageGuy
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Is this the kind of parade we're talking about?

Text

Text

Text

Text

Text

Text

Text

Your google image search skills are unmatched.

However, I think it should be pointed out (as it should be obvious) that not all gay men are men in chicks clothes or black leather gear.

Perhaps you should fine some more representative photos?

I just asked if this is the kind of parade the homosexuals are planning on holding in the Holy City.

Is the answer yes or no?

p.s. I just showed the "tame" pictures. I've seen a few gay parades and these pics are fairly representative.

Christians, Jews, and Muslims show rare case of unity... by oppressing gays and lesbians

I guess that a sense of decency transends religious boundaries.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Fundamentalists (regardless of specific religion) = religious extremists. They're all a few sandwiches short of a picnic and should be treated accordingly.

What do you mean by they "should be treated accordingly"?

Ridiculed for their stupidity.
 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
3,613
2,836
136
Originally posted by: eriqesque
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: StormRider
When will people realize that God created gays to help straight guys dress better so we can have a better chance with girls? It's quite simple, really.
Why haven't you been perma-banned yet?

STFU.


I thought that StormRider's statement was funny.


And I'm gay.



Hell I am straight and I thought was funny