Christians Attack College - Push for new Law in Ohio called Academic 'Bill of Rights' 2-12-05

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CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
So how would a non-liberal school teach math, science, etc?

Do you think these so-called "liberal professors" teach like this....

"Ok students, 1 tax cut for the rich + 1 corporate welfare = 2 centuries of financial disaster."

Oh, pulllleeease, get over yourselves.
Your 'ridiculous' example is a lot closer to home than you think. Professors in engineering classes here commonly make political comments (all from the left, I might add) in the middle of class, sometimes taking a significant portion of class time to do so, particularly right after elections. I can give specific examples if you like, since I sometimes write down the most blatant examples just to laugh at later.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: EXman
they just don't want to go to the school of liberal indoctrination and not be able to freely speak if their views cause them to get a lower grade just due to their conservative background.

So you want the professors muzzled so THEY can't speak freely?

Do you really think professors are as petty as you? Professors and teaching assistants do not mark people down because they disagree with a student's politics.

Of course they do. Are you really that naive?

Link

Do you realize that NOT ONE of those cases has anything to do with students being marked down on their grade(s) for their political/ideological beliefs?
 

CellarDoor

Golden Member
Aug 31, 2004
1,574
0
0
I go to UCSD and none of my professor's have shown anything to give me a hint as to their political beliefs. The closest one got was when they said, "I encourage everybody to go out and vote."

My friend however, goes to sjsu and his accounting professor (or perhaps econ) isn't exactly subtle about it. For instance, on one of his quizzes, a word problem started out like this...

"Hideous George W. Inc. manufactures 2 products, awful and disgusting....."
 

Taejin

Moderator<br>Love & Relationships
Aug 29, 2004
3,270
0
0
Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
The point of a college education isn't so much to learn facts, it's to learn how to think. You don't learn how to think by constantly having your own ideologies reinforced by Academics who have their hands tied by legislation supported by an electorate wherein more people do not have even a high school degree than a bachelor's (Ohio: 17.1% without a high school diploma, 13.7% with a bachelor's; source: 2000 Census). You learn to think by having your views criticized by your Professors & fellow students. Just like any other ideology, Christian-influenced ideas like those held by Charis Bridgman are not above criticism, plain and simple. If you don't want your religious opinions criticized, move to Iran and become a Muslim.
In my own experience, left-wing Professors love having conservative students in class because it gives everyone a chance to witness the argument, and to sharpen their own argumentative skills (which, the last time I checked, is one of the foundations of a successful democratic society). Did the Professor usually end up looking like they won the argument? Of course, but any professional is going to beat any amateur, and you become better by practicing with a more skilled opponent. Conservative students need to have more personal courage and fortitude to argue with their Professors than do liberal students, but again, they're better off for it in the long run because they know how to do more than simply regurgitate pedagogy. I personally hold many conservative views, and never had any Professor treat me with disrespect or mess with my grades simply because they disagreed with me. My worst grades usually came from Professors with whom I agreed, simply because you don't learn how to argue a position that isn't challenged.
The bottom line is this Otterbein College is a private school. She can either deal with the situation or leave, since private schools are hands-off territory to the government.

Hey look, this guy isn't wearing a tinfoil hat...

 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
So how would a non-liberal school teach math, science, etc?

Do you think these so-called "liberal professors" teach like this....

"Ok students, 1 tax cut for the rich + 1 corporate welfare = 2 centuries of financial disaster."

Oh, pulllleeease, get over yourselves.
Your 'ridiculous' example is a lot closer to home than you think. Professors in engineering classes here commonly make political comments (all from the left, I might add) in the middle of class, sometimes taking a significant portion of class time to do so, particularly right after elections. I can give specific examples if you like, since I sometimes write down the most blatant examples just to laugh at later.

Oh yes, please, please do, because we all know if you say it, you can take it to the bank! :roll:
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Oh yes, please, please do, because we all know if you say it, you can take it to the bank! :roll:
Yes, really, wtf would I know? I've just been in college the last six years of my life. I also lie through my teeth on an internet forum, because that's what all the cool guys are doing these days! :cookie:
 

judasmachine

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2002
8,515
3
81
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Good. Institutions of higher learning have become institutions of indoctrination.

and what would be so "free" about them if you had your way? :roll:

 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Oh yes, please, please do, because we all know if you say it, you can take it to the bank! :roll:
Yes, really, wtf would I know? I've just been in college the last six years of my life. I also lie through my teeth on an internet forum, because that's what all the cool guys are doing these days! :cookie:

Yes, that's right... wtf do you know.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Yes, that's right... wtf do you know.
Really, you're right. I was there, but I'm sure you know better than I do what was really said. Your genius transcends both time and space.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Yes, that's right... wtf do you know.
Really, you're right. I was there, but I'm sure you know better than I do what was really said. Your genius transcends both time and space.

"Hi, my name is CycloWizard and I had this one professor that I didn't agree with so I'm going to write everything down in my little book. Then I'm going to cry, whine, bitch and moan on internet forums that these damn liberal professors are holding me back from letting my moral superiority shine. Shine like a beacon of ooey-goodness for all the world to see. Then strangers and wild animals will flock to my aura and tap into me for their best chance of spiritual salvation. Or is that salavation? I get so confused. :confused:"

But seriously, are there "liberal" professors... of course there are. Are there "conservative" professors.... of course there are. My only advice to anyone that whines about things like this is either leave the class, leave the school or SUCK IT UP PRINCESS!

 

cquark

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2004
1,741
0
0
Originally posted by: EXman
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: EXman
they just don't want to go to the school of liberal indoctrination and not be able to freely speak if their views cause them to get a lower grade just due to their conservative background.

So you want the professors muzzled so THEY can't speak freely?

Do you really think professors are as petty as you? Professors and teaching assistants do not mark people down because they disagree with a student's politics.

No I don't want them muzzling kids with different views. Who's paying for the education and who is getting paid?

First, students rarely pay for a significant fraction of the cost of their education in 4-year universities. At a research university like MIT, the student tuition accounts for only around 10% of funding, but even at large state universities, tuition makes up a minority of funding.

Second and more importantly, give up the student-as-consumer metaphor. It's tremendously destructive to both the university and to its students. Education is not just another service like getting the oil in your car changed. You can't get an education by being a passive consumer; learning is an active process. Professors can't teach you anything; all they can do is provide opportunities for you to learn.
 

cquark

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2004
1,741
0
0
One more appeal to the sensisble: just because this bill is confusing and contradictory in its statements doesn't mean that it's not also dangerous.

Give up your pet peeves with your professors and look at what the full impact of this bill would be. Think about what its effect on Ohio's BIble-based Christian colleges will be, for example (and yes, the bill does include both private and state universities and colleges.)
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,572
66
91
www.bing.com
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
"College sophomore Charis Bridgman tends to keep quiet in class if she thinks her professor might disagree with her Christian-influenced ideas."

Try reading the first line again ^^^^.

Bottem line it's the Christian Radical Religious Right stirring up the sh!t.

Fitting that the mecca of all this is OhiO.
Dave, thats a single example, The Academic Bill of Rights has been around for years, and its ha no religous backing, its only trying to prevent people from having to "keep quiet in class"

I wonder how you would have titled the thread if it said this:
"College sophomore Charis Bridgman tends to keep quiet in class if she thinks her professor might disagree with her homesexual ideas."

because the academic bill of rights backs up this person as well.

 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: Train
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
"College sophomore Charis Bridgman tends to keep quiet in class if she thinks her professor might disagree with her Christian-influenced ideas."

Try reading the first line again ^^^^.

Bottem line it's the Christian Radical Religious Right stirring up the sh!t.

Fitting that the mecca of all this is OhiO.
Dave, thats a single example, The Academic Bill of Rights has been around for years, and its ha no religous backing, its only trying to prevent people from having to "keep quiet in class"

I wonder how you would have titled the thread if it said this:
"College sophomore Charis Bridgman tends to keep quiet in class if she thinks her professor might disagree with her homesexual ideas."

because the academic bill of rights backs up this person as well.

The girl with the "homosexual ideas" doesn't NEED protection. Her work will be assessed on it's merit. She is not going to be given a lower grade because she is a lesbian. She might be given a lower grade if the quality of her thinking and reasoning is low, her assessment pieces are of poor quality, etc. There has not been a SINGLE EXAMPLE provided in this thread of a student being marked down due to a political disagreement with a professor.


 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
"Hi, my name is CycloWizard and I had this one professor that I didn't agree with so I'm going to write everything down in my little book. Then I'm going to cry, whine, bitch and moan on internet forums that these damn liberal professors are holding me back from letting my moral superiority shine. Shine like a beacon of ooey-goodness for all the world to see. Then strangers and wild animals will flock to my aura and tap into me for their best chance of spiritual salvation. Or is that salavation? I get so confused. :confused:"

But seriously, are there "liberal" professors... of course there are. Are there "conservative" professors.... of course there are. My only advice to anyone that whines about things like this is either leave the class, leave the school or SUCK IT UP PRINCESS!
It's fun to be in third grade all over again. :D Continue in your ignorance that you've worked so hard to keep safe.
 

fbrdphreak

Lifer
Apr 17, 2004
17,555
1
0
I didn't bother reading every page here, but I have to say that this is bullshit. If you have a problem with a professor for unfairly treating or grading you, take it up with college administration. The dean of that department, or whoever. Yes, it may be a long, tiring, and ultimately fruitless process, but at least you gave it your best shot and didn't go whining to the conservative bible belt politicians to make a law saying that you get to love Jesus in class without being penalized for it. :roll: If this is such a big issue at that college, then (A) why hasn't there been protest WITHIN the college and (B) if it is well known enough for liberal, God-hating professors: WHY THE FVCK DID YOUR LILLY-JESUS-LOVING-@$$ GO THERE? I mean damn

Whenever I'm around a group of fellow students, 99% of the time I feel as though I can't express my lack of belief in God because I'll be spit on. I wouldn't say I'm in the middle of the bible belt (Raleigh, NC) but when there are chalk writings all over campus & little tables setup everywhere for the damn Crusaders for Christ ninnies, how can I not feel religiously oppressed? Maybe I should go cry to my legislators and try to get a law passed forbidding excessive expressions of religion on my college campus. :disgust:
[/RANT]
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: EXman
they just don't want to go to the school of liberal indoctrination and not be able to freely speak if their views cause them to get a lower grade just due to their conservative background.

So you want the professors muzzled so THEY can't speak freely?

Do you really think professors are as petty as you? Professors and teaching assistants do not mark people down because they disagree with a student's politics.

Of course they do. Are you really that naive?

Link

Do you realize that NOT ONE of those cases has anything to do with students being marked down on their grade(s) for their political/ideological beliefs?
Seriously, not even one of those cases...

I'm curious now, are you simply fabricating your "facts" to suit your agenda? You know, like the alleged "Democrats" who are trying to push bills to fund embryonic stem cell research?
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,572
66
91
www.bing.com
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: Train
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
"College sophomore Charis Bridgman tends to keep quiet in class if she thinks her professor might disagree with her Christian-influenced ideas."

Try reading the first line again ^^^^.

Bottem line it's the Christian Radical Religious Right stirring up the sh!t.

Fitting that the mecca of all this is OhiO.
Dave, thats a single example, The Academic Bill of Rights has been around for years, and its ha no religous backing, its only trying to prevent people from having to "keep quiet in class"

I wonder how you would have titled the thread if it said this:
"College sophomore Charis Bridgman tends to keep quiet in class if she thinks her professor might disagree with her homesexual ideas."

because the academic bill of rights backs up this person as well.

The girl with the "homosexual ideas" doesn't NEED protection. Her work will be assessed on it's merit. She is not going to be given a lower grade because she is a lesbian. She might be given a lower grade if the quality of her thinking and reasoning is low, her assessment pieces are of poor quality, etc. There has not been a SINGLE EXAMPLE provided in this thread of a student being marked down due to a political disagreement with a professor.
how about a whole thread

 

GMElias

Golden Member
Jan 17, 2002
1,600
0
0
Originally posted by: BDawg
College often changes a person's opinions because it opens his way of thinking to the rest of the world. Some people refuse there to be another set of ideas, so they try to force the rest of the world to reinforce what they believe.

Edit: grammar

yes...agreed:)
-Elias
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
I didn't bother reading every page here, but I have to say that this is bullshit. If you have a problem with a professor for unfairly treating or grading you, take it up with college administration. The dean of that department, or whoever. Yes, it may be a long, tiring, and ultimately fruitless process, but at least you gave it your best shot and didn't go whining to the conservative bible belt politicians to make a law saying that you get to love Jesus in class without being penalized for it. :roll: If this is such a big issue at that college, then (A) why hasn't there been protest WITHIN the college and (B) if it is well known enough for liberal, God-hating professors: WHY THE FVCK DID YOUR LILLY-JESUS-LOVING-@$$ GO THERE? I mean damn

Whenever I'm around a group of fellow students, 99% of the time I feel as though I can't express my lack of belief in God because I'll be spit on. I wouldn't say I'm in the middle of the bible belt (Raleigh, NC) but when there are chalk writings all over campus & little tables setup everywhere for the damn Crusaders for Christ ninnies, how can I not feel religiously oppressed? Maybe I should go cry to my legislators and try to get a law passed forbidding excessive expressions of religion on my college campus. :disgust:
[/RANT]

you should come study in australia. here, the xians are the minority weirdoes :D
 

Tommunist

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2004
1,544
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: aidanjm
you should come study in australia. here, the xians are the minority weirdoes :D

Interesting. Aussie land too far and isolated???

I never looked at your profile before, quite an interest in American Politics being so far removed.

indeed - and the rather overt sexuality makes a lot more sense now. ;)
 

fbrdphreak

Lifer
Apr 17, 2004
17,555
1
0
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
I didn't bother reading every page here, but I have to say that this is bullshit. If you have a problem with a professor for unfairly treating or grading you, take it up with college administration. The dean of that department, or whoever. Yes, it may be a long, tiring, and ultimately fruitless process, but at least you gave it your best shot and didn't go whining to the conservative bible belt politicians to make a law saying that you get to love Jesus in class without being penalized for it. :roll: If this is such a big issue at that college, then (A) why hasn't there been protest WITHIN the college and (B) if it is well known enough for liberal, God-hating professors: WHY THE FVCK DID YOUR LILLY-JESUS-LOVING-@$$ GO THERE? I mean damn

Whenever I'm around a group of fellow students, 99% of the time I feel as though I can't express my lack of belief in God because I'll be spit on. I wouldn't say I'm in the middle of the bible belt (Raleigh, NC) but when there are chalk writings all over campus & little tables setup everywhere for the damn Crusaders for Christ ninnies, how can I not feel religiously oppressed? Maybe I should go cry to my legislators and try to get a law passed forbidding excessive expressions of religion on my college campus. :disgust:
[/RANT]

you should come study in australia. here, the xians are the minority weirdoes :D

Actually my gf's family is probly moving to New Zealand and they want me to go there to get my MBA. How's the religious zealots out there? :p
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: aidanjm
you should come study in australia. here, the xians are the minority weirdoes :D

Interesting. Aussie land too far and isolated???

Just a different culture I think. People here are more skeptical of religion, for whatever reason. You'd never hear a politician or public figure talking about god, giving thanks to god, etc.

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I never looked at your profile before, quite an interest in American Politics being so far removed.
not much point talking aussie politics on an american board, I guess.
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: Tommunist
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: aidanjm
you should come study in australia. here, the xians are the minority weirdoes :D

Interesting. Aussie land too far and isolated???

I never looked at your profile before, quite an interest in American Politics being so far removed.

indeed - and the rather overt sexuality makes a lot more sense now. ;)

overt? I've been trying to tone it down. :)