Christians Attack College - Push for new Law in Ohio called Academic 'Bill of Rights' 2-12-05

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aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
That's because you think the goal is stop anti-American hate speak by "professors", but it's not. It's about protecting students from being indoctrinated and coerced into agreeing with the "professors" to achieve a good grade or without it being approached as an opinion of the "professor". You obviously haven't read and understood the link I posted earlier otherwise you'd have realized that.

Have you even read the legislation? Have you even read about how it was first introduced to the Universities, and when they ignored it - it was taken to the legislation stage? Hmmm...

CsG

The goal of an undergraduate university is actually to push the students into learning some critical thinking skills, not to indoctrinate students. A few throw-away comments about president Bush or the war in Iraq doesn't constitute indoctrination. And we are talking about "kids" who are 18, 19 years old. They hardly need to be protected from hearing a political viewpoint that makes them feel uncomfortable.


 

HeaterCore

Senior member
Dec 22, 2004
442
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: HeaterCore
...and they wonder why their grades suck. I knew a girl that intentionally answered an evolution question on an exam wrong because it she didn't believe in evolution. Don't come crying to me when you don't get the grade you feel you "deserve" and later on some med school says your GPA is too low.

Sheesh. I'm fine with all manner of belief, outspoken or otherwise, but it will be a cold day in Hell before I go under a knife held by somebody with such an infirm grasp of science that they can't accept evolution as a theory.

-HC-

You'll have to get Medical Attention outside the U.S. then. Good luck

Errr, what? I can't imagine a doctor who doesn't give credence to evolution.

-HC-
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: HeaterCore
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: HeaterCore
...and they wonder why their grades suck. I knew a girl that intentionally answered an evolution question on an exam wrong because it she didn't believe in evolution. Don't come crying to me when you don't get the grade you feel you "deserve" and later on some med school says your GPA is too low.

Sheesh. I'm fine with all manner of belief, outspoken or otherwise, but it will be a cold day in Hell before I go under a knife held by somebody with such an infirm grasp of science that they can't accept evolution as a theory.

-HC-

You'll have to get Medical Attention outside the U.S. then. Good luck

Errr, what? I can't imagine a doctor who doesn't give credence to evolution.

-HC-

You haven't been to such Red States such as Alabama or Georgia lately then have you?

They are going through great lengths to ban Evolution from being allowed to be taught in School.

 

sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
91
Originally posted by: HeaterCore
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: HeaterCore
...and they wonder why their grades suck. I knew a girl that intentionally answered an evolution question on an exam wrong because it she didn't believe in evolution. Don't come crying to me when you don't get the grade you feel you "deserve" and later on some med school says your GPA is too low.

Sheesh. I'm fine with all manner of belief, outspoken or otherwise, but it will be a cold day in Hell before I go under a knife held by somebody with such an infirm grasp of science that they can't accept evolution as a theory.

-HC-

You'll have to get Medical Attention outside the U.S. then. Good luck

Errr, what? I can't imagine a doctor who doesn't give credence to evolution.

-HC-

Trust me. This girl was otherwise pretty smart she was good at physics and actually had grades that were on or near target for medical school. She was premedicine and for all we know she's applying this year and she got in. Then again maybe the MCAT got her dumb a$$ or some other subject nailed her hopefully. I, personally don't think we need stupid people practicing medicine.


 

Tommunist

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2004
1,544
0
0
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
That's because you think the goal is stop anti-American hate speak by "professors", but it's not. It's about protecting students from being indoctrinated and coerced into agreeing with the "professors" to achieve a good grade or without it being approached as an opinion of the "professor". You obviously haven't read and understood the link I posted earlier otherwise you'd have realized that.

Have you even read the legislation? Have you even read about how it was first introduced to the Universities, and when they ignored it - it was taken to the legislation stage? Hmmm...

CsG

The goal of an undergraduate university is actually to push the students into learning some critical thinking skills, not to indoctrinate students. A few throw-away comments about president Bush or the war in Iraq doesn't constitute indoctrination. And we are talking about "kids" who are 18, 19 years old. They hardly need to be protected from hearing a political viewpoint that makes them feel uncomfortable.

When I consider how unliberal (and on top of this uninformed) the students at my university were and still are I'm not suprised that the profs "appear" super liberal. It's an interesting phenom that a lot of profs tend to be a bit on the liberal side but why do you think that is? are liberals more likely to want to teach? once someone becomes a teacher is it suddenly advantageous to be liberal?
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: Tommunist
When I consider how unliberal (and on top of this uninformed) the students at my university were and still are I'm not suprised that the profs "appear" super liberal. It's an interesting phenom that a lot of profs tend to be a bit on the liberal side but why do you think that is? are liberals more likely to want to teach? once someone becomes a teacher is it suddenly advantageous to be liberal?

Maybe conservatives want to make money, so they aren't prepared to go into teaching, academia, or the sciences (where the pay isn't great, and there might not be much job security).
 

kogase

Diamond Member
Sep 8, 2004
5,213
0
0
Forgive me if someone already pointed this out, but I don't feel like reading all the posts in this thread... but did anyone else notice that this article didn't offer a single example? It just offers a vague description of the "rampant" liberal bias of professors in American universities, and then... goes nowhere. What? I'm going to need a little more information if I'm expected to view this article as anything more than a troll.
 

HeaterCore

Senior member
Dec 22, 2004
442
0
0
The numbers are pretty clear. Look at the voting patterns and self-identification of professors, and they're overwhelming liberal, especially in the social sciences.

But who gives a sh*t? Academia attracts liberals in the same manner that law enforcement draws conservatives. There are simply some professions and some disciplines that attract and nurture certain personalities and political orientations. This is evident even within academia itself -- something like 90 percent of sociologists vote Democratic, but the numbers are about 50/50 for engineering profs.

I'll start worrying about liberal professors when conservatives start worrying about Republican "bias" in corporate boardrooms.

-HC-
 

Tommunist

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2004
1,544
0
0
Originally posted by: HeaterCore

I'll start worrying about liberal professors when conservatives start worrying about Republican "bias" in corporate boardrooms.

-HC-

good point. who is in a position to affect more people's lives? The political science dept of some university or the board of a major company?
 

EXman

Lifer
Jul 12, 2001
20,079
15
81
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: digitalsm
The fact of the matter is on the vast majority of college campuses, conservative students and conservative student groups are harassed. By professors, adminstration, and fellow students.

It needs to stop.

Go to a "conservative" school then.

In my years in college, I never got a "liberal" spin on any of my classes, EVER. This is just another stupid, f'in smokescreen to force religious and rightwing agenda by INVENTING ANOTHER CRISIS.

You guys really do need to get over yourselves. Are you so insecure with yourselves?


Wrong then you have to go to a Faith school then. No one is trying to force a "religious and rightwing agenda" they just don't want to go to the school of liberal indoctrination and not be able to freely speak if their views cause them to get a lower grade just due to their conservative background.

I think they just want to be "FAIR."

What is problem with that? What does having a true open forum make you whine "INVENTING ANOTHER CRISIS" stuff?

Leave it to Dave to start a Christian bashing thread. <wave>

Man you are bitter... :(

Man Ohio is like the liberals kryptonite. :cool:
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: EXman
they just don't want to go to the school of liberal indoctrination and not be able to freely speak if their views cause them to get a lower grade just due to their conservative background.

So you want the professors muzzled so THEY can't speak freely?

Do you really think professors are as petty as you? Professors and teaching assistants do not mark people down because they disagree with a student's politics.

 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: kogase
Forgive me if someone already pointed this out, but I don't feel like reading all the posts in this thread... but did anyone else notice that this article didn't offer a single example? It just offers a vague description of the "rampant" liberal bias of professors in American universities, and then... goes nowhere. What? I'm going to need a little more information if I'm expected to view this article as anything more than a troll.

good call.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: EXman
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: digitalsm
The fact of the matter is on the vast majority of college campuses, conservative students and conservative student groups are harassed. By professors, adminstration, and fellow students.

It needs to stop.

Go to a "conservative" school then.

In my years in college, I never got a "liberal" spin on any of my classes, EVER. This is just another stupid, f'in smokescreen to force religious and rightwing agenda by INVENTING ANOTHER CRISIS.

You guys really do need to get over yourselves. Are you so insecure with yourselves?


Wrong then you have to go to a Faith school then. No one is trying to force a "religious and rightwing agenda" they just don't want to go to the school of liberal indoctrination and not be able to freely speak if their views cause them to get a lower grade just due to their conservative background.

I think they just want to be "FAIR."

What is problem with that? What does having a true open forum make you whine "INVENTING ANOTHER CRISIS" stuff?

Leave it to Dave to start a Christian bashing thread. <wave>

Man you are bitter... :(

Man Ohio is like the liberals kryptonite. :cool:

So how would a non-liberal school teach math, science, etc?

Do you think these so-called "liberal professors" teach like this....

"Ok students, 1 tax cut for the rich + 1 corporate welfare = 2 centuries of financial disaster."

Oh, pulllleeease, get over yourselves.

 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: EXman
they just don't want to go to the school of liberal indoctrination and not be able to freely speak if their views cause them to get a lower grade just due to their conservative background.

So you want the professors muzzled so THEY can't speak freely?

Do you really think professors are as petty as you? Professors and teaching assistants do not mark people down because they disagree with a student's politics.

Of course they do. Are you really that naive?

Link
 

EXman

Lifer
Jul 12, 2001
20,079
15
81
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: EXman
they just don't want to go to the school of liberal indoctrination and not be able to freely speak if their views cause them to get a lower grade just due to their conservative background.

So you want the professors muzzled so THEY can't speak freely?

Do you really think professors are as petty as you? Professors and teaching assistants do not mark people down because they disagree with a student's politics.


No I don't want them muzzling kids with different views. Who's paying for the education and who is getting paid? No I don't want them to speak freely if it impeads ANY students right to speak their views openly w/o the threat of verbal retaliation, belittled or a lower grade.

How does Fair = Petty?

Please explain
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: EXman
they just don't want to go to the school of liberal indoctrination and not be able to freely speak if their views cause them to get a lower grade just due to their conservative background.

So you want the professors muzzled so THEY can't speak freely?

Do you really think professors are as petty as you? Professors and teaching assistants do not mark people down because they disagree with a student's politics.

Of course they do. Are you really that naive?

Link

The plural of "anecdote" is NOT "data". There are undoubtedly some cases where a university authority figure treated a student unfairly because of political or religious beliefs. It is an inevitable consequence of imperfect human beings. It is also a poor reason to muzzle professors and deny all students a chance to develop their critical thinking skills. First, it wouldn't solve the problem. Second, it is a slippery slope.

Do we blindfold all professors since some have undoubtedly treated some students unfairly due to appearance, clothing, and other visible attributes? Do we plug their ears because some have mistreated a student with a speech impediment, an accent, or an unpleasant voice? Do we hide all students behind curtains and mask their names just in case one professor, somewhere, might discriminate against an individual based on gender? Where do we draw the line?

One of the purposes of education is to help prepare young people to deal with the real world. In the real world, life isn't always fair. One has to learn how to deal with it, for example by learning when and where to express one's beliefs, and how to do it in a constructive way.
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: EXman
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: EXman
they just don't want to go to the school of liberal indoctrination and not be able to freely speak if their views cause them to get a lower grade just due to their conservative background.

So you want the professors muzzled so THEY can't speak freely?

Do you really think professors are as petty as you? Professors and teaching assistants do not mark people down because they disagree with a student's politics.


No I don't want them muzzling kids with different views.

What do you mean by "muzzling"? What evidence do you have that this is happening?

I haven't seen any evidence that students are being "muzzled", at all.

Originally posted by: EXman
Who's paying for the education and who is getting paid?

The fact that students pay for their classes does not mean the students are then able to dictate the terms of the arrangement.

Originally posted by: EXman
No I don't want them to speak freely if it impeads ANY students right to speak their views

How does a professor's right to speak freely impede a student's right to speak freely?

You seem to believe that students are entitled to speak freely, but that professors are not entitled to speak freely. That is a silly double standard, that cannot be justified.

Originally posted by: EXman
openly w/o the threat of verbal retaliation, belittled or a lower grade.

What evidence do you have that students are being marked down because of their political opinions? I have never heard of this happening. In the years I have spent at university, I have never encountered or heard of such a happening. Please provide specific examples of students being marked down because of their political opinions (give the name of the institution, an and outline of the situation for each example please. Also provide a link so we may verify the information to our own satisfaction).

Originally posted by: EXman
How does Fair = Petty?

Please explain

"Petty" is someone marking a student down, because that person disagrees with the student's political opinions. What evidence do you have that this is happening? I haven't seen any evidence that this is taking place, at all.
 

Nick5324

Diamond Member
Aug 19, 2001
3,267
0
0
Interesting story OP. I'm in my 4th year at Ohio State and have only noticed a political bias a handful of times. Honestly, it didn't bother me that much. They have their opinions, I have mine. Their comments will either make me rethink my belief or will strengthen it when i realize how much I disagree with their viewpoint. :) What I would be more concerned with than a "liberal spin" by a prof. is if there is a student who is significantly influenced by comments made in lecture and generates an opinion without discussion with others and/or their own research. Oh well, likely the answer is :beer: or :cookie: .
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: EXman
they just don't want to go to the school of liberal indoctrination and not be able to freely speak if their views cause them to get a lower grade just due to their conservative background.

So you want the professors muzzled so THEY can't speak freely?

Do you really think professors are as petty as you? Professors and teaching assistants do not mark people down because they disagree with a student's politics.

Of course they do. Are you really that naive?

Link

The plural of "anecdote" is NOT "data". There are undoubtedly some cases where a university authority figure treated a student unfairly because of political or religious beliefs. It is an inevitable consequence of imperfect human beings. It is also a poor reason to muzzle professors and deny all students a chance to develop their critical thinking skills. First, it wouldn't solve the problem. Second, it is a slippery slope.

Do we blindfold all professors since some have undoubtedly treated some students unfairly due to appearance, clothing, and other visible attributes? Do we plug their ears because some have mistreated a student with a speech impediment, an accent, or an unpleasant voice? Do we hide all students behind curtains and mask their names just in case one professor, somewhere, might discriminate against an individual based on gender? Where do we draw the line?

One of the purposes of education is to help prepare young people to deal with the real world. In the real world, life isn't always fair. One has to learn how to deal with it, for example by learning when and where to express one's beliefs, and how to do it in a constructive way.

:thumbsup:
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: EXman
they just don't want to go to the school of liberal indoctrination and not be able to freely speak if their views cause them to get a lower grade just due to their conservative background.

So you want the professors muzzled so THEY can't speak freely?

Do you really think professors are as petty as you? Professors and teaching assistants do not mark people down because they disagree with a student's politics.

Of course they do. Are you really that naive?

Link

Most of the cases on that page involve unfair treatment of professors by school administration. I didn't see anything about students being marked down by professors over a political disagreement.

 

EXman

Lifer
Jul 12, 2001
20,079
15
81
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: EXman
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: EXman
they just don't want to go to the school of liberal indoctrination and not be able to freely speak if their views cause them to get a lower grade just due to their conservative background.

So you want the professors muzzled so THEY can't speak freely?

Do you really think professors are as petty as you? Professors and teaching assistants do not mark people down because they disagree with a student's politics.


No I don't want them muzzling kids with different views.

What do you mean by "muzzling"? What evidence do you have that this is happening?

I haven't seen any evidence that students are being "muzzled", at all.

Originally posted by: EXman
Who's paying for the education and who is getting paid?

The fact that students pay for their classes does not mean the students are then able to dictate the terms of the arrangement.

Originally posted by: EXman
No I don't want them to speak freely if it impeads ANY students right to speak their views

How does a professor's right to speak freely impede a student's right to speak freely?

You seem to believe that students are entitled to speak freely, but that professors are not entitled to speak freely. That is a silly double standard, that cannot be justified.

Originally posted by: EXman
openly w/o the threat of verbal retaliation, belittled or a lower grade.

What evidence do you have that students are being marked down because of their political opinions? I have never heard of this happening. In the years I have spent at university, I have never encountered or heard of such a happening. Please provide specific examples of students being marked down because of their political opinions (give the name of the institution, an and outline of the situation for each example please. Also provide a link so we may verify the information to our own satisfaction).

Originally posted by: EXman
How does Fair = Petty?

Please explain

"Petty" is someone marking a student down, because that person disagrees with the student's political opinions. What evidence do you have that this is happening? I haven't seen any evidence that this is taking place, at all.

You called me Petty do you have evidence that I have done this? Didn't think so.

Here is an earlier quote from you.
There are undoubtedly some cases where a university authority figure treated a student unfairly because of political or religious beliefs.

So which one is it? You never heard of it, or your last quote? You cannot have it both ways. I've seen it first hand and honestly I don't give a rip if you do not believe me or not. Also not everything in this world is posted on the internet. Or even everything on the internet fact as you well know. It's not a cop out I just don't feel like arguing with you. Or even try to research something I have seen but directed toward me at the time just to quantify it for you. Maybe it is just because I'm too lazy or to tired... :D G'nite

 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: EXman
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: EXman
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: EXman
they just don't want to go to the school of liberal indoctrination and not be able to freely speak if their views cause them to get a lower grade just due to their conservative background.

So you want the professors muzzled so THEY can't speak freely?

Do you really think professors are as petty as you? Professors and teaching assistants do not mark people down because they disagree with a student's politics.


No I don't want them muzzling kids with different views.

What do you mean by "muzzling"? What evidence do you have that this is happening?

I haven't seen any evidence that students are being "muzzled", at all.

Originally posted by: EXman
Who's paying for the education and who is getting paid?

The fact that students pay for their classes does not mean the students are then able to dictate the terms of the arrangement.

Originally posted by: EXman
No I don't want them to speak freely if it impeads ANY students right to speak their views

How does a professor's right to speak freely impede a student's right to speak freely?

You seem to believe that students are entitled to speak freely, but that professors are not entitled to speak freely. That is a silly double standard, that cannot be justified.

Originally posted by: EXman
openly w/o the threat of verbal retaliation, belittled or a lower grade.

What evidence do you have that students are being marked down because of their political opinions? I have never heard of this happening. In the years I have spent at university, I have never encountered or heard of such a happening. Please provide specific examples of students being marked down because of their political opinions (give the name of the institution, an and outline of the situation for each example please. Also provide a link so we may verify the information to our own satisfaction).

Originally posted by: EXman
How does Fair = Petty?

Please explain

"Petty" is someone marking a student down, because that person disagrees with the student's political opinions. What evidence do you have that this is happening? I haven't seen any evidence that this is taking place, at all.

You called me Petty do you have evidence that I have done this? Didn't think so.

If you assume that a professor would mark someone down for a simple difference of political opinion, then yes, in my opinion you are petty. Why haven't you answered any of my questions, above?

Originally posted by: EXman
Here is an earlier quote from you.
There are undoubtedly some cases where a university authority figure treated a student unfairly because of political or religious beliefs.

So which one is it? You never heard of it, or your last quote? You cannot have it both ways. I've seen it first hand and honestly I don't give a rip if you do not believe me or not. Also not everything in this world is posted on the internet. Or even everything on the internet fact as you well know. It's not a cop out I just don't feel like arguing with you. Or even try to research something I have seen but directed toward me at the time just to quantify it for you. Maybe it is just because I'm too lazy or to tired... :D G'nite

That was not written by me. It was written by Bowfinger.