Christians are an endangered species in Iraq

[IronWing]

Pat Buchanan made a point a few years ago that the history of conflict in the 20th century was largely one of building ethnically and religiously "pure" nation states through through war, genocide, mass migration, and other unpleasantness. His take on it was that we aught to let the process proceed as the resulting states were ultimately more stable than the multi-ethnic imperial remnant states that were dismantled.

 

[Zorkorist]

The problem with that, is that each death is an individual, and an individual that "might cure cancer," to put it in simple terms.

Only a Government could think that the deaths of individuals is good.

-John

 

[IronWing]

Only a Government could think that the deaths of individuals is good.

-John

<snort> Plenty of plain old folks think that the deaths of individuals is good.

 

[Zorkorist]

No they don't.

-John

 

[IronWing]

No they don't.

-John

People react with absolute glee to hear of the death of the enemy de jour, the criminal, the Darwin Award winner, the illegal alien, the other. People are cruel.

 

[Zorkorist]

No, they aren't.

-John

 

[IronWing]

No, they aren't.

-John

Are to. :hmm:

 

[Lemon law]

As this forum veers off on another insane tangent demonizing Ducki for daring to ask, "Why don't you go ask the Kurds or Shiites if it was worth it?"

Quite a valid question IMHO, but still a very hard question to answer, not only in the time immediate time period of say 2004, but also into the unforeseeable future.

Even if we assert that of the three large groups in Iraq, only the Sunni Muslims were the larger beneficiaries of Saddam Huessein rule. We must also realize that as a typical tin pot police state dictator, Saddam made damn sure that no one could rise up to rival him in political power. And many a Sunni Muslim lost their lives in the fast shuffle as Saddam became an equal opportunity mass murder. Nor can we say that hundreds of thousands of Kurds and Shias did not become victims of the same ethnic cleansing that a competent occupation of Iraq could have prevented.

Meanwhile more rational people pee their pants at that prospect that the entire Iraqi occupation debacle, quagmire, and bungle has awoken smoldering ethic tensions in other mid-east countries. Sunni dominated Saudi Arabia has peacefully lived for a over a thousand years next to a Shia dominated Iran, but add in a Shia dominated Iraq, and then Saudi Arabia loses all it land links with other Sunni dominated Arab States. Meanwhile the Kurds would have long ago left Iraq were it not for the fact the Turks, with their large Kurdish minority is ready to go to war if the Iraqi Kurds start stirring up rebellion in Turkish Kurds..

 

[Zorkorist]

THIS is where Government comes in, Lemon Law.

Fuck Religion, and Tribes.

We are all just people trying to get along.

-John

 

[Zebo]

Islam doent fuck around. An Idiot liberal like yourself would be first to die under Sharia along with many others. Like those idiotic Iranian students who helped revolution then led off to chopping block days later.

1) Homosexuals - I posted pics before of gays hanging from cranes and stoned but it was warned by mod. Nevertheless dead meat.

2) Secualr Humanists? You worship Allah not man. You will miss the good ole days of Christian forgiveness.

3) Feminists? You are man property N.O.W! Girls too.

4) Hollywood? Movies praising Islam or off to chopping blocks for you - No more Jews in Hollywood that's for sure.

5) Blacks? See Darfur genocide currently taking place.

6) Socialists/Marxists/Progressives Islamic rules do not follow your phony religion established by Jews.

7) New Agers? Sharia and Gaia don't mix.

Least Christians have a chance long as they practice out of site.

 

[werepossum]

Anyone remember that under Ottoman rule Assyrian Christians were a large part of Iraq? Anyone remember that under Ottoman rule Iraq had over a hundred thousand Jews? Persecution of Jews and Christians and Hindus etc. is an integral part of every Muslim country today; the only difference is that now progressives can blame it on America so they choose to notice it.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Anyone remember that under Ottoman rule Assyrian Christians were a large part of Iraq? Anyone remember that under Ottoman rule Iraq had over a hundred thousand Jews? Persecution of Jews and Christians and Hindus etc. is an integral part of every Muslim country today; the only difference is that now progressives can blame it on America so they choose to notice it.

If i am not mistaken, Ottomans where Muslims as well or it was the dominant religion at least. I an mot sure. But anyway, that was before the books burning idiots we know from the Christian history as well came to power in the Islam. The religion can be moderated through education of the people, it is just that the powers of be and their willing crowd(which is a subset of muslims) will be out of a job and will do anything necessary to enforce their will. We have to accept that without enforcing education, there will be more fundamentalists then should be around based on the idea that education will prevent extreme views. That is why i posted about the religious orthodox jews in another thread. And that is why i remind of Christian history.

 

[werepossum]

If i am not mistaken, Ottomans where Muslims as well or it was the dominant religion at least. I an mot sure. But anyway, that was before the books burning idiots we know from the Christian history as well came to power in the Islam. The religion can be moderated through education of the people, it is just that the powers of be and their willing crowd(which is a subset of muslims) will be out of a job and will do anything necessary to enforce their will. We have to accept that without enforcing education, there will be more fundamentalists then should be around based on the idea that education will prevent extreme views. That is why i posted about the religious orthodox jews in another thread. And that is why i remind of Christian history.

Ottoman Turks were indeed Muslim, so strongly so that they invented the Mameluke class of slave to avoid the Koranic prohibition on Muslim fighting Muslim. However they regarded all their subjects as equal (essentially property) and did not have the two-tiered legal system of Muslim versus non-Muslim that is present in modern Muslim nations. (They did of course have an Ottoman/non-Ottoman legal system, like any other empire.) Thus under Ottoman rule Christians and Jews received the same protections as did Muslims.

This same two-tiered legal system was common to ancient through late medieval Christian societies as well, but does not exist in any modern Christian societies. The closest analogy outside the Muslim world would be Israel, which has some restrictions on non-Jews - though nothing near that in place in Muslim nations. Murdering a Muslim in Israel for instance is treated exactly the same as murdering a Jew. Even if the Muslim was dissing Moses.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Ottoman Turks were indeed Muslim, so strongly so that they invented the Mameluke class of slave to avoid the Koranic prohibition on Muslim fighting Muslim. However they regarded all their subjects as equal (essentially property) and did not have the two-tiered legal system of Muslim versus non-Muslim that is present in modern Muslim nations. (They did of course have an Ottoman/non-Ottoman legal system, like any other empire.) Thus under Ottoman rule Christians and Jews received the same protections as did Muslims.

This same two-tiered legal system was common to ancient through late medieval Christian societies as well, but does not exist in any modern Christian societies. The closest analogy outside the Muslim world would be Israel, which has some restrictions on non-Jews - though nothing near that in place in Muslim nations. Murdering a Muslim in Israel for instance is treated exactly the same as murdering a Jew. Even if the Muslim was dissing Moses.

Indeed. We must take the Muslims that are kept in the dark out of the dark age and into the light of education. It happened before in history and advanced humanity greatly.

Just as many Christians for example, many Muslims do not know their own history. Well, only the violent parts they are taught.

 

[Zorkorist]

Honestly, I couldn't give a bigger shit about Religion, or Religious History, etc.

It's all fairy tales to me.

What's important is Government.

-John