Christian and Athiest in the same house!

[poopaskoopa]

I used to room with a preacher when I was in college and I had to hear constantly that I "wasn't living right." I'm an athiest and I didn't really feel bad that I drank sometimes and dated girls, and he was a good guy so I nodded in agreement everytime I heard it and moved on. That fool stuck me with all the bills when we went our separate ways though... Fvcker.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: fisher
were you not a kid? did you never see your parents fight when they thought you were off somewhere else? did you never say something just to piss your mom or dad off? or to get out of doing something?

apparently i'm the only person here who was a kid at one point.

My dad is from the Taiwanese military as many Taiwanese were (not to mention my dad was the quintesciential Asian father), and my parent took church marriage counseling later in life, so yes, I did see a lot of heated fights as a kid. But you still neglected to see that from the evidence we are given it sounds like the mom pushed too hard and the kid acted out.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Sorry to say, but decisions about religion should be made BEFORE marriage. Otherwise, I think you're setting yourself up for disaster.

You have to understand your wife's point of view. For her, as a Christian, she believes in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. She has, presumably, prayed for salvation. Through that prayer, she will be going to heaven when she dies. She wants the same for her children (and possibly you, too) to join her there.

You really can't make "decisions" of this magnitude before marriage. People will change, and as they become more conscious of their own mortality, their values change.

This will be an endles source of frustration as you, your wife, and your kids get older.

Tell the boy to go to church. There is more going on there than a mere woshipping of "fantasies."

Even if he doesn't buy into it, it can't really do him any harm. Besides, he could stand to learn a little respect for others.

best is to ask her, if god is good he should allow good people who are good to other people into heaven regardless of faith

Ask her what? The problem with Christianity is that it requires a conscious choice. It may seem stupid to you, but to a Christian, the conscious choice is a very real prerequisite to get into heaven.

The statement that "any good God will let good people into heaven" is a nice sentiment. I can only hope that you are right. I would like to think that as well. The problem is that the Bible does not support that point of view.

In a nutshell, that is what his wife is going through. She would like to have a chance to raise the child in her way, too. I think that it is rather obvious that the kid is parroting the OP to some extent.

 

[KoolAidKid]

Atheist/religious marriages can be difficult to make work. I know a few couples that have worked it out, but the problems always seem to crop up when kids get involved. Luckily for me, I fell in love with an atheist. My wife sincerely believes that religious people have a form of mental illness. A match made in heaven.

All of that aside, it sounds like your kid is being a typical rebellious teenager. Adopting atheism is certainly more rebellious than becoming religious, so you can understand the appeal.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: sourceninja
Let me tell you a story about how I stopped beliving in god.

I grew up in a catholic family. We went to church 2 times a week. I also went to classes 3 times a week to learn how to be catholic. When I was about 11 had questions. I asked my mother, she didn't have suitable answers. My father didn't either. He said I should trust in god or ask the priest. So I asked the priest and he told me asking those questions showed my lack of faith. He said I just had to believe. He also quoted things from the bible that didn't seem to have anything to do with the conversation, but as i was 11 they seemed important and swayed me for awhile. Fast forward 3 more years. I'm 14 years old its summer. My mom lost her job. Times are tough and we are having problems. I get a phone call from the church asking for my mother. She gets of the phone crying. I find out though being nosey that she was crying because they were getting on to her for not giving money the last few months in the offering plate. A few weeks later they sent us offering envalopes for my parents, and some for me (as if a 14 year old kid needs to worry about giving money to a church). I lost my faith right there. I came to the decision that religion is wrong on my own. My parents do not support me, they had no infulence, and I did it myself at 14 years old. My parents struggled for years to pay taxes, pay the church (to an aceptable percentage of their income), and feed us. If there is a god, he doesn't need money. He doesn't need churches. He doesn't need anything from me. I will live my life and be a good person. If thats not enough for god, if he needs my worship and begging for forgivness, the screw god. I'd rather burn in hell.

Heck, I totally understand. But YOU must understand that the "church" is no longer what Christ and Peter and Luther intended it to be. It has become splintered into a million factions of greed and political power. Have you seen the movie, Stigmata? I think the message that movie tries to tell is somewhat accurate. Church is simply when two or more gather in the name of Jesus Christ. But I think that can also simply boil down to your personal relationship with Jesus Christ, meaning you and Him. That is the only church that truly matters. Now I also do believe that the Bible encourages us to give 10% to help our fellow man. It also tells us to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. But whether the Bible said that or not, I would give anyway.

Edit: While I am talking about movies, go rent the movie Luther as well.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: Czar
you are looking at this the wrong way

the boy is 14 year old
his mother is trying to make him do something he doesnt want to do

yeah he's 14. he's still a minor. life is all about doing things you don't want to do. DEAL WITH IT. when he's 18 and moves out of mommy and daddy's house then he can do whatever he wants.

wtf is wrong with people these days that they think 14 year olds get to make decisions?

Wow.

Just...wow.

There's a big difference between taking out the trash and being indoctrinated into a religion. There's also the question of mutual respect, good role models, and positive psychological development.

Personally I wish it was a class A felony for anyone under 18 to attend religious services. People have to wait till 16 to drive, 18 to vote, and 21 to drink. I have no clue why they're not required to put off religious decisions until they're able to properly process the entire body of available information.

 

[erikistired]

...

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: Czar
best is to ask her, if god is good he should allow good people who are good to other people into heaven regardless of faith

What is "good" in G-d's eyes? Answer: Perfection.

therefore, noone "deserves" heaven. NO ONE. Or at least that is the Christian view on things.

Every stole something as a kid, ever think a hateful/murderous thought about someone (murder), ever undress a girl with your eyes (adultery). Matthew 5-6.

It is only G-d's mercy and free gift that allowed otherwise.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: JackBurton
Listen, in all seriousness, I think respect for your parents should be your sons top priority. That should take precidence over his beliefs. I'm 33 and my parents are Christians, but I don't throw my beliefs in their face. If they want to have a discussion about it, sure. But I don't mock there beliefs in front of them. It is just a matter of respect for my parents. They come before anything else.

Parent's are not supposed to exaccerbate their kid's either.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: fisher
were you not a kid? did you never see your parents fight when they thought you were off somewhere else? did you never say something just to piss your mom or dad off? or to get out of doing something?

apparently i'm the only person here who was a kid at one point.

My dad is from the Taiwanese military as many Taiwanese were (not to mention my dad was the quintesciential Asian father), and my parent took church marriage counseling later in life, so yes, I did see a lot of heated fights as a kid. But you still neglected to see that from the evidence we are given it sounds like the mom pushed too hard and the kid acted out.

I can see kinda why mom pushed a little too hard, gaiven what she perceives as the consequences. People start acting funny when they have kids. Things that were not a big deal to them, become huge when kids are factroed into the equation.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: Kenazo

Originally posted by: DurocShark
Where are the atheists pushing pamphlets in your hands at the mall? Where are the atheist televangelists?

From a Christian point of view the world is full of them. Watch discovery channel go to any science class... etc etc.

(just pointing out what a Christian might think in reply to your statement)

that is a very ignorant and snide reply. check out infidels.org for some popular atheist televangelists.

Both sides of these beliefs need to settle down.

 

[erikistired]

...

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: hans030390
I'm thinking your son could have been a bit more respectful. I'm christian, and I respect other's beliefs, and I dont think she should be pushing the kids to believe anything. I dont think you should try putting anything on them either, which it sounds like you haven't.

The problem is that most Christian's can not see the perspective of the non-believer. As a Christian, you can not judge a non-believer by the same code of ethics that you have. And it is a fine line between telling someone who is willing to listen and proselytizing. I have a close friend that is stubborn and gets irritated whenever anyone talks about religion, so I choose not to talk about those things unless he brings them up. I pray for him, and try to treat him with as much respect as I can give, but that is it.

We don't have enough information to see if the wife was actually encouraging the son to go, or heavy handedly pushing the son to go (which it sounds like she was doing the latter).

One of my coworkers, she "preaches to everyone, and when she found out a coworker was lesbian, she judged her and said she was sinning (who isn't, and the person isn't even Christian <so no need to rebuke just point out that all people sin and are not able to be sinless> ). She is one of the people that people don't talk to, and gives Christians a bad name, but I am sure she is a "model" Christian in her own life. My coworkers know I am a believer, but they also know that I won't preach to them. Rather I will show them by action, and if they approach me about the subject I am more than able to talk about it.

a 14 year old isn't finding atheism on his own. it's something he probably doesn't really believe anyhow. as i said above, it's more like he saw mom and dad fighting about it, saw mom get upset and decided to use it to get out of doing something he didn't want to do.

I found atheism by 1st grade...all on my own. My fathers a catholic, my mother was a non-denom christian, and my older brother is a holy roller. Granted, I'm not entirely normal, but *shrug*. By high school I began to explore spirituality more and by 30 I was no longer an atheist. Growth and change is natural and healthy. Being controlled isn't.

People act like atheism is unnatural, and that's a load of horseshit. Biased horseshit at that. A lot of people move to atheism BECAUSE of people like this kids mother. Preachy, controlling, manipulative, interfering, disrespectful, egocentrists.

 

[acemcmac]

Originally posted by: sourceninja
Let me tell you a story about how I stopped beliving in god.

I grew up in a catholic family. We went to church 2 times a week. I also went to classes 3 times a week to learn how to be catholic. When I was about 11 had questions. I asked my mother, she didn't have suitable answers. My father didn't either. He said I should trust in god or ask the priest. So I asked the priest and he told me asking those questions showed my lack of faith. He said I just had to believe. He also quoted things from the bible that didn't seem to have anything to do with the conversation, but as i was 11 they seemed important and swayed me for awhile. Fast forward 3 more years. I'm 14 years old its summer. My mom lost her job. Times are tough and we are having problems. I get a phone call from the church asking for my mother. She gets of the phone crying. I find out though being nosey that she was crying because they were getting on to her for not giving money the last few months in the offering plate. A few weeks later they sent us offering envalopes for my parents, and some for me (as if a 14 year old kid needs to worry about giving money to a church). I lost my faith right there. I came to the decision that religion is wrong on my own. My parents do not support me, they had no infulence, and I did it myself at 14 years old. My parents struggled for years to pay taxes, pay the church (to an aceptable percentage of their income), and feed us. If there is a god, he doesn't need money. He doesn't need churches. He doesn't need anything from me. I will live my life and be a good person. If thats not enough for god, if he needs my worship and begging for forgivness, then screw god. I'd rather burn in hell.

Exactly.

 

[erikistired]

...

 

[40Hands]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: DurocShark
Yesterday he finally said, "Why would I want to go listen to a bunch of people worshipping their fantasies?" I had to leave the room. That was a great line! But I didn't want to make my wife look like a fool by laughing.

You sound like a real jerk. Kids don't come up with stuff like that on their own and certainly wouldn't be so disrespectful to his mother unless he was following your example. Congrats.

Everyone already knows you're a complete idiot and fool, why do you find it necessary to constantly remind us of this fact?

BULLSHIT kids don't come up with stuff on their own. Many don't, many do. It's tremendously influenced by personality and intellect, not just environment. Furthermore with an involved Christian in the house there was obviously an equal chance to swing either way.

You're just biased, and a bigot, and an asshole, and an idiot. How you find room to be so many things is beyond me, but oh well.

You want disrespectful? Hounding someone to be a part of something they don't believe in out of your own insecurities. Using guilt, especially as a mother, to brainwash your own children. There's plenty of disrespect going on in that house all right, and like usualy it's mostly on the part of the religious.

:lips:

I've see your posts. I agree with most of what he says. You're just a troll.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: sourceninja
Let me tell you a story about how I stopped beliving in god.

I grew up in a catholic family. We went to church 2 times a week. I also went to classes 3 times a week to learn how to be catholic. When I was about 11 had questions. I asked my mother, she didn't have suitable answers. My father didn't either. He said I should trust in god or ask the priest. So I asked the priest and he told me asking those questions showed my lack of faith. He said I just had to believe. He also quoted things from the bible that didn't seem to have anything to do with the conversation, but as i was 11 they seemed important and swayed me for awhile. Fast forward 3 more years. I'm 14 years old its summer. My mom lost her job. Times are tough and we are having problems. I get a phone call from the church asking for my mother. She gets of the phone crying. I find out though being nosey that she was crying because they were getting on to her for not giving money the last few months in the offering plate. A few weeks later they sent us offering envalopes for my parents, and some for me (as if a 14 year old kid needs to worry about giving money to a church). I lost my faith right there. I came to the decision that religion is wrong on my own. My parents do not support me, they had no infulence, and I did it myself at 14 years old. My parents struggled for years to pay taxes, pay the church (to an aceptable percentage of their income), and feed us. If there is a god, he doesn't need money. He doesn't need churches. He doesn't need anything from me. I will live my life and be a good person. If thats not enough for god, if he needs my worship and begging for forgivness, then screw god. I'd rather burn in hell.

wow, you really are 14 years old. think it through, and realize that the church isn't a building, and no where does it require giving money. Realize that the church is not a good indication of what God, if he does exist, would want from you.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Sorry to say, but decisions about religion should be made BEFORE marriage. Otherwise, I think you're setting yourself up for disaster.

You have to understand your wife's point of view. For her, as a Christian, she believes in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. She has, presumably, prayed for salvation. Through that prayer, she will be going to heaven when she dies. She wants the same for her children (and possibly you, too) to join her there.

You really can't make "decisions" of this magnitude before marriage. People will change, and as they become more conscious of their own mortality, their values change.

This will be an endles source of frustration as you, your wife, and your kids get older.

Tell the boy to go to church. There is more going on there than a mere woshipping of "fantasies."

Even if he doesn't buy into it, it can't really do him any harm. Besides, he could stand to learn a little respect for others.

best is to ask her, if god is good he should allow good people who are good to other people into heaven regardless of faith

Ask her what? The problem with Christianity is that it requires a conscious choice. It may seem stupid to you, but to a Christian, the conscious choice is a very real prerequisite to get into heaven.

The statement that "any good God will let good people into heaven" is a nice sentiment. I can only hope that you are right. I would like to think that as well. The problem is that the Bible does not support that point of view.

In a nutshell, that is what his wife is going through. She would like to have a chance to raise the child in her way, too. I think that it is rather obvious that the kid is parroting the OP to some extent.

The bible says one thing, it says so on alot of things which christians do not follow. People pick and choose what to belive in even though its under the banner of organized religioun. I had a friend ones who was very religious, for a few weeks or months she was constantly worried about me, that I would go to hell because I didnt belive. We talked about it for a long time, we even went over some bible studdy she did. We read the bible passage and then told one another what we got out of it.

In the end it simply came to this. If god is good like we all like to belive then that god shouldnt require us to warship him because religion is about being good to one another. The fundemental teachings are human relationships.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Wow.

Just...wow.

There's a big difference between taking out the trash and being indoctrinated into a religion. There's also the question of mutual respect, good role models, and positive psychological development.

Personally I wish it was a class A felony for anyone under 18 to attend religious services. People have to wait till 16 to drive, 18 to vote, and 21 to drink. I have no clue why they're not required to put off religious decisions until they're able to properly process the entire body of available information.

Why would you say that? My kids will go to church when they are young. I will stress the importance of Christianity, but when they come to an age to decide for themselves, I hope that I will be a good influence and not someone who will try to control their choices.

 

[sourceninja]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile


Heck, I totally understand. But YOU must understand that the "church" is no longer what Christ and Peter and Luther intended it to be. It has become splintered into a million factions of greed and political power. Have you seen the movie, Stigmata? I think the message that movie tries to tell is somewhat accurate. Church is simply when two or more gather in the name of Jesus Christ. But I think that can also simply boil down to your personal relationship with Jesus Christ, meaning you and Him. That is the only church that truly matters. Now I also do believe that the Bible encourages us to give 10% to help our fellow man. It also tells us to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. But whether the Bible said that or not, I would give anyway.

Its one thing to make a choice to give. Its another to be expected. I donate to charity. I give blood. I donate to food drives for people in my community. But I've always felt that they made it seem like not giving money would send us to hell. I definatly belive you should help people. We did get help eventually, but not from our church, from my grandmother's church (she is a southern baptist). They gave us food for a thanksgiving dinner. They were some great people, but they also had crazy view points I can't subscribe too. But I dont want to get into politics of the southern baptists .

I just figure its imporant to be a good person and try to help people when you are able. I am more fortunate then a lot of people, I have a great job, a great wife, a nice house. I should help the family of 4 who lives in a 1 bedroom appartment on the bad side of town. But I dont see how giving 10% of my income to a church the size of a high school with parking so large you need to be shuttled to the church helps these people. A church at asks you to give, then holds fundrasiers, and then on sunday tells ya that you need to donate a little extra because father wants new bushes in the front of the church.

anyways, I dont want to make it about me. I just wanted to tell my story. I dont care what anyone believes as long as they a) dont effect my life and B) are happy with their life.

 

[erikistired]

...

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: fisher
were you not a kid? did you never see your parents fight when they thought you were off somewhere else? did you never say something just to piss your mom or dad off? or to get out of doing something?

apparently i'm the only person here who was a kid at one point.

My dad is from the Taiwanese military as many Taiwanese were (not to mention my dad was the quintesciential Asian father), and my parent took church marriage counseling later in life, so yes, I did see a lot of heated fights as a kid. But you still neglected to see that from the evidence we are given it sounds like the mom pushed too hard and the kid acted out.

I can see kinda why mom pushed a little too hard, gaiven what she perceives as the consequences. People start acting funny when they have kids. Things that were not a big deal to them, become huge when kids are factroed into the equation.

I can see that, and I am pretty sure that I will probably be controlling and partial when I am a father, but the trick is to recognize it and try to control it.

 

[kogase]

So basically we've got fisher (kids are your slaves), purbeast (atheists are trying to take over the world and are all in my face yo), HeroOfPellinor (all of the above times 50). People are jumping to some pretty ridiculous conclusions based on the information found in this thread. Seeing as how nobody knows the entire situation I don't think anybody is justified in doing that. However, if you were going to jump to any conclusions based on the information we have been given it's that the kid was disrespectful, but the mom sounds like a hardcore bitch anyway.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: GeneValgene

Originally posted by: giantpinkbunnyhead
Kudos to the boy! That was fantastic.

Regarding your situation though, you're wrong simply because you're up against a woman. You can't use logic on them. You will lose no matter what because it's too hard for us guys to fight against irrationality. I'd let your wife think she's right; then when she's not around, high-five your son and buy him a beer! (Or equivalent for whatever 14 yr olds like)

how old are you?

do you think that was fantastic? do you think the boy really changed any of his mom's views by talking back like that? if anything, it just made her more angry, and more set in her views. he needs to learn to express himself respectfully.

I hear your point, but from experience I imagine he was pretty fed up by then. There is NOTHING on Earth more frustrating than the close-mindedness of religious people. I've always said that logic and reason to a religious person is like a cartoon safe...you drop it on em and they just walk right out of it like it was nothing.

Place blame where it's due...mom started it, mom needs to grow the hell up. His reaction was NATURAL when faced with someone trying to control and manipulate you, and use guilt as a weapon. She got what she deserved.

Yes, he should be respectful whenever possible. Ideally he would say, "I've made my views on this clear. If you have valid information to provide you can leave it for me on the table. Right now I'm not feeling like you respect me as an individual so I'm going to leave this conversation so I don't say anything hurtful." How many 14 year old boys do you know that could pull that off in the middle of an argument? Hell, I don't know many college debators that could pull that off with a straight face. What should happen and what does happen are pretty dissimilar most of the time.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: kogase
So basically we've got fisher (kids are your slaves), purbeast (atheists are trying to take over the world and are all in my face yo), HeroOfPellinor (all of the above times 50). People are jumping to some pretty ridiculous conclusions based on the information found in this thread. Seeing as how nobody knows the entire situation I don't think anybody is justified in doing that. However, if you were going to jump to any conclusions based on the information we have been given it's that the kid was disrespectful, but the mom sounds like a hardcore bitch anyway.

QFT, except the b!@#!# part. She does sound really controlling though.