MATTHEWS: This is one heck of a school. We?re going to have the president, Donna Shalala, on here in a minute.
You know, I have to ask you a question. There?s been a big rigmarole the last couple of hours because the broadcast networks and the cable networks have apparently decided not to obey the rules of the contract between the two candidates. The contract provides that there be no reaction shots. And of course, we?ve all?you and I grew up with the famous Nixon reaction shot. And of course, there was the Al Gore sighing. And sometimes the secondary characteristics of a person are more interesting than what they?re saying.
Do you think it?s scary for the Bush campaign to have shots on national television tomorrow night of a ticked-off president being brow-beaten by John Kerry?
DUBERSTEIN: I think George Bush tomorrow night is going to be George Bush. John Kerry has to be...
MATTHEWS: Yes, but George Bush...
DUBERSTEIN: ... somebody else.
MATTHEWS: ... is notorious for losing his temper sometimes when reporters ask him obnoxious questions.
DUBERSTEIN: Hey, Chris, there you go again, as Ronald Reagan would say!
MATTHEWS: Well, suppose the candidate of the Democratic Party says something the president finds disrespectful and he shows it in his countenance. Is that going to make people think, Well, wait a minute, this guy?s not got his head screwed on?
DUBERSTEIN: Continue to underestimate George Bush.
MATTHEWS: OK.
DUBERSTEIN: And it works.
MATTHEWS: Would you like the networks not to show reaction shots of your candidate?
DUBERSTEIN: It?s OK, as far as I?m concerned.
MATTHEWS: Well, then, why did he fight so hard to make sure they didn?t?
DUBERSTEIN: Because it?s part of the negotiation of 32 pages.
MATTHEWS: Right, but why did your side push to avoid any kind of reaction shots?
DUBERSTEIN: Guess what? No problem whatsoever.
MATTHEWS: But why? What are you hiding?
DUBERSTEIN: Guess what?
MATTHEWS: You?re hiding his reaction.
DUBERSTEIN: But John Kerry will be the austere, sour, dour John Kerry.
MATTHEWS: OK. Why no questioning of one candidate by another? Why is that important to your campaign strategy?
DUBERSTEIN: Because...
MATTHEWS: Why is it vital for you not to have the president cross-questioned by his opponent?
DUBERSTEIN: Because I think it?s speaking directly to the American people, answering the moderator?s questions...
MATTHEWS: That?s not a debate.
DUBERSTEIN: ... and going?of course it is because you?re explaining to the American people...
MATTHEWS: This is a joint interview by Jim Lehrer.
DUBERSTEIN: Guess what?
MATTHEWS: That?s what it is. Jim Lehrer is interviewing the two candidates. Tell me how it?s different than that.
DUBERSTEIN: And it is fine because you?re getting your points across to the American people.
MATTHEWS: Why don?t they just call it ?The Lehrer Hour??
DUBERSTEIN: And let John Kerry...
MATTHEWS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) answer the question.
DUBERSTEIN: And let John Kerry do his...
MATTHEWS: Do you deny?you?re a very smart negotiator. You know Washington. Are you here to tell me that the president?s people did not try to protect him from a rough give-and-take?
DUBERSTEIN: Guess what? They don?t have to protect George Bush.
MATTHEWS: Why?d they do it?
DUBERSTEIN: Because George Bush is firm on his policies, steady leadership. He?s fine, Chris.
MATTHEWS: Well, why are they protecting him so much?
DUBERSTEIN: Guess what? You got to negotiate your ground rules to make sure everything is fair and square and let it go from there.
MATTHEWS: They?re treating him like a bubble baby out there!DUBERSTEIN: Guess what?
MATTHEWS: They?re saying, Don?t get near the guy, it might hurt him.
He?s fragile. He?ll bleed.
DUBERSTEIN: Guess what? Chris...
MATTHEWS: Why?d they do that?
DUBERSTEIN: Continue to underestimate George Bush.
MATTHEWS: No, I don?t underestimate him.
DUBERSTEIN: I love it!
MATTHEWS: I think your crowd?I think Jimmy Baker underestimates him. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) he said, The president shall not be questioned. The president will not be challenged to a joint pledge. The president will not be approached physically by his opponent. Are they literally afraid that John Kerry will approach him physically? Is that what they?re afraid of, road rage?
DUBERSTEIN: Oh, no. But let John Kerry lose his temper! Let John Kerry get frustrated. Let John Kerry start explaining...
MATTHEWS: You know, it?s too bad you weren?t in the negotiations...
DUBERSTEIN: ... his two Americas.
MATTHEWS: ... Ken, because you wouldn?t have been so protective of the president. Let me ask you, what?s the biggest vulnerability of John Kerry tomorrow night?
DUBERSTEIN: John Kerry has to explain why he?s on both sides of every issue, not just the 19 years in the Senate, but more importantly, why he continues to flip-flop, flip-flop and can?t hold anything but a nuance. And remember...
MATTHEWS: How can he on both sides of every issue if he?s got a 100 percent liberal voting record?
DUBERSTEIN: Guess what?
MATTHEWS: Sounds to me like he?s always on the liberal side.
DUBERSTEIN: And guess what? He?s also nuanced, which is a French word!
(LAUGHTER)
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