CHOO CH- ...crap

[Red Squirrel]

Passenger train derailment south of Moosonee, ON. Don't think nobody got hurt too bad though thankfully.

 

[Chaotic42]

Damn, that sucks. Glad no one was hurt too bad. Just imagine what this would have been like before we had instant communication to report the incident.

 

[KMFJD]

Oh man that sucks for them, it's the only way in and out of that community isn't it? (other than a long canoe ride)There's no roads up there....owned by the Natives as well

 

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah it's pretty much the only way in and out. A lot of those ONR tracks also have fibre optics that run next to them so derailments sometimes sever them. It's quite possible they would have lost communication too but not sure if it's the case or not in this incident.

 

[quikah]

Hard to tell, but some of the tracks look messed up. Wonder which caused which.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Someone mentioned the track may have warped due to heat (it's been really hot in this area and even up north) but it may have also happened from the actual derailment.

 

[kage69]

Someone mentioned the track may have warped due to heat (it's been really hot in this area and even up north) but it may have also happened from the actual derailment.

I seriously doubt that. I don't care how hot it gets in the summer, the temp will be nowhere near the temps reached when shaping high strength steel into rail.

 

[feralkid]

Really crappy video shows a little more.

https://globalnews.ca/video/4244276...ils-near-moosonee-ont-minor-injuries-reported

 

[feralkid]

I seriously doubt that. I don't care how hot it gets in the summer, the temp will be nowhere near the temps reached when shaping high strength steel into rail.

Agreed.

The tracks having been laid on the perma-frost, now melting, has been mentioned as a possible factor.

 

[tynopik]

I seriously doubt that. I don't care how hot it gets in the summer, the temp will be nowhere near the temps reached when shaping high strength steel into rail.

rail-burnt is a thing

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1438186/Rails-buckle-and-roads-melt-in-heat.html
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-tracks-melt-in-heat/articleshow/13679984.cms

 

[Thebobo]

The big dreralimt we had in DC about 5 years ago was because ot track heating up expanding and made the track warp.

Heat could warp train tracks, causing derailments
http://www.live5news.com/story/12786857/heat-could-warp-train-tracks-causing-derailments

 

[kage69]

Well holy crap, didn't know that. I think a better description might be pressure warps the tracks, but the pressure is caused by expansion from the heat of a hot sun. The suns not getting anything soft, which is kinda what I meant. I presume a rail segment removed from sun kink will be it's original shape, anyone know for sure?

That article from India: "Rail-burnt is caused because of multiple reasons." I think what they're talking about is when it's hot enough (and in India I bet it is!) the wheel can't really grip so it spins... adding a hell of a lot of heat to that one spot, so it starts to melt. Willing to bet the majority of the heat created there is from friction, not the sun.

 

[JTsyo]

Well holy crap, didn't know that. I think a better description might be pressure warps the tracks, but the pressure is caused by expansion from the heat of a hot sun. The suns not getting anything soft, which is kinda what I meant. I presume a rail segment removed from sun kink will be it's original shape, anyone know for sure?

That article from India: "Rail-burnt is caused because of multiple reasons." I think what they're talking about is when it's hot enough (and in India I bet it is!) the wheel can't really grip so it spins... adding a hell of a lot of heat to that one spot, so it starts to melt. Willing to bet the majority of the heat created there is from friction, not the sun.

It's not that the material gets soft but that it expands as it gets hot. If it is fixed at two points and expanding in the middle, it needs warp to still fit.

 

[Thebobo]

Track warp all most a derail.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Yep it's expansion contraction. If you take a piece of copper wire and push both ends together it has nowhere to go but to bend, so it's kinda what happens to the track.

Similar things can happen in the cold too to suspension bridges. The cables start to retract and it will pull the bridge right off the road. Of course if it's designed properly it should not but it just comes to show how complex designing stuff like this can be and all the things to account for.

Happened to this bridge: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/nipigon-river-bridge-closed-transcanada-1.3397831

Actually the article does not seem to mention contraction, but think that was the determining factor. The cables were basically acting like springs making it easier for the wind to lift it further.

Which also raises a question, why don't we have backup routes for when things like this happen, when that bridge was out it split Canada in half.

 

[KMFJD]

Yep it's expansion contraction. If you take a piece of copper wire and push both ends together it has nowhere to go but to bend, so it's kinda what happens to the track.

Similar things can happen in the cold too to suspension bridges. The cables start to retract and it will pull the bridge right off the road. Of course if it's designed properly it should not but it just comes to show how complex designing stuff like this can be and all the things to account for.

Happened to this bridge: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/nipigon-river-bridge-closed-transcanada-1.3397831

Actually the article does not seem to mention contraction, but think that was the determining factor. The cables were basically acting like springs making it easier for the wind to lift it further.

Which also raises a question, why don't we have backup routes for when things like this happen, when that bridge was out it split Canada in half.

Canadian Shield is expensive to build roads through and no one wants to pay more taxes so here we are

 

[kage69]

Track warp allmist a derail.

Crikey!

 

[Red Squirrel]

I'm at work now so found out a bit more details. They started to put the trains back on the track and started repairs. We do in fact have fibre running along the track but it's on the opposite side of the derailment, so the communities up north did not lose communication.

 

[sdifox]

Possible problem is permafrost is melting, so it is more like a bog. Which means the tracks may look fine til you put weight on it, then it goes to hell. Yet another side effect of climate change.

Not sure Moosonee is northern enough to be on permafrost though, it's on the South tip of Hudson's Bay. Edit, nope, not close to polar circle.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/...frost-destroying-arctic-cities-norilsk-russia

 

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah not sure if they get permafrost, but someone did mention it was a new run of track that was laid while it was frozen, so it may have sunk when the ground started to unfreeze.

It's interesting what happens to the ground in spring actually. My parents have a large fire pit area made of interlocking stone. My dad went on it in spring and the bricks were sinking into the ground. Wait a few months and it's like it never happened, everything is solid again.

Actually reminds me when they built the Walmart here. They paved in winter, which is something you should never do. By summer the entire parking lot looked more like a skate park. They also had issues with the Walmart itself where the floor was heaving and they had to redo a lot of it.